On July 16 2011 03:24 enecateReAP wrote: To be honest, all these arguments aside, personally I think TB makes us brits look like idiots, his commentary is just irritating, it isn't even entertaining. Inc can make any statement he wants, doesn't mean everyone has go off about it, noone will even remember this in awhile.
And to everyone saying that he always goes off at Tyler...I mean COME ON. Aren't you guys pissed at Tyler? What was once a great player is too busy to do his occupation? Too lazy? Too Unmotivated? I don't care if he's 'insulting' Tyler, everyone wants Tyler to get off his ass and show us how good we all know he is.
Doesn't Tyler have a family? Maybe his time is really limited compared to the other gamers. I think it's not that he's lazy or anything and before getting to know him as a person, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.
I think you forget that pro-gaming is his occupation? He gets payed, to play this game.
Ofcourse he has a family, just like every other worker in the world has a family, they should still do their job.
Most Koreans practise at least 12 hours a day. Even a pro-football player in the NFL doesn't work that long. All I'm saying is that there is probably a context here.
In the average american context, people work 9-5, which is 8 hours. Why can't he put atleast those hours in? If he wants pro-gaming to be his occupation, then surely he should respect it enough to put the itme in? I understand that Tyler does a lot for the community, but he could do so much more as a player.
On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote: those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
I altered your statements to make them fit my argument better. The statement in the actual interview struck me as odd since it always seemed as if you were friends with TB and spoke highly of him.
Either way I still think it isn't advantageous to the community to say that we want pretty girls coming to get involved on the action (for money) but we shouldn't respect people from other games coming (for money). I don't think you have to either be a "normal" person or already have been a part of the sc2 community to not be somebody just here for the money/somebody we want and respect. I don't see why we can't have both.
Updated for greater truthyness.
The shot at TB is fine. I know he is here to make a buck or two and thats great. Never seen him play a game, which is ok too. He has a great voice for broadcasting and brings some excitment and character to the game. He sometimes acts like he is casting with a higher purpose for e-sports, which I find weird.
Geoff is critical of everyone and should keep it up. Tyler gives the impression that isn't working as hard as he was before. And, damn it, I want him to work harder and put in the time. Geoff wants it too and he says it.
He streams a lot of games... that he is playing. Generally has a few thousand viewers as well.
Incontrol strike me as a person that would hate on a progamer that had no previous RTS experience and only knew SC2. I'd go as far as to say that anyone that went into progaming and started with SC2 would also be in it for the money in his eyes. (HIpster glasses: I was into this RTS etc.)
I also feel like your BW background makes you auto think anyone that didn't play is a scrub. Remember everyone starts somewhere and not everyone has the gaming roots that a fair few SC2 pros have today.
Incontrol: "Well I don't know why people would be offended, I think Lindsay Sporrer did a fine job, why... I'd be more offended by *thinks of an example of someone who doesn't offend him* Totalbiscuit!"
Community: "WHAT?! You're COMPLETELY OFFENDED by Totalbiscuit?! Thats so mean!! How could you be so mean?!!!" *goes to thread about Lindsay to call her a dumb blonde*
On July 16 2011 03:13 Chill wrote: A thread like this makes Starcraft way less fun. Jesus Christ.
So do narcissistic, parasitic personalities who spend more time explaining why people shouldn't criticize their work instead of actually producing a tournament that doesn't look like 2AM programming on a public access channel. It's funny how Incontrol calls out TB for being in it "for the money" when it became obvious after the first few weeks that Incontrol was only in it for the fame and adulation, and he cared a lot more about having a good time making NASL and basking in its glory than he did about actually doing a good job.
Trust me I am the first one to be like "wow i seem to have stumbled into serious town" but incontrol's personality has needled my psyche for the last six months or so and from the looks of it, I'm not alone
Why are there posters that only talk about starcraft II personalities and only talk shit about people rather than discussing players, and the actual game.
First of all, if it is as Inc says it is then it´s totally uninteresting. He has an opinion that isnt that big of a deal that noone should really mind.
If it`s a joke (which it isnt) then it would just not be all that funny, not much to discuss here.
If he really really meant that he hated TB then why do people give so many fucks about it? If someone Hates TB for making videos then he´s freaking silly and should just be ignored, the biggest punishment for saying something retarded like that is that people wont hire him anyways, not that some Internet forum-superheroes go on a rant for 23 fucking pages...
Anyways, Incontrol, you`re a really cool dude and your opinion is your own but you could have worded it a bit differently, not saying you said something else than you meant but judging from this thread, you have to treat us fans like kids to be able to make a point.
On July 16 2011 04:40 Rotodyne wrote: Why are there posters that only talk about starcraft II personalities and only talk shit about people rather than discussing players, and the actual game.
They are like a bunch of gossiping housewives.
Also the post above mine is mean, and insane.
Might as well mail angry letters to ESPN's Outside The Lines, too.. .who cares about players outside of the game, anyways...
On July 16 2011 03:13 Chill wrote: A thread like this makes Starcraft way less fun. Jesus Christ.
So do narcissistic, parasitic personalities who spend more time explaining why people shouldn't criticize their work instead of actually producing a tournament that doesn't look like 2AM programming on a public access channel. It's funny how Incontrol calls out TB for being in it "for the money" when it became obvious after the first few weeks that Incontrol was only in it for the fame and adulation, and he cared a lot more about having a good time making NASL and basking in its glory than he did about actually doing a good job.
Trust me I am the first one to be like "wow i seem to have stumbled into serious town" but incontrol's personality has needled my psyche for the last six months or so and from the looks of it, I'm not alone
If you know him personally, you have my sympathy if he's truly "needled your psyche," but otherwise I find it totally unnecessary to let someone who's a stranger (IRL) cause havoc in your life. I'm really chill atm though as I'm listening to Tastosis bash nerds and movies on the GSTL vod.
The funny thing is, I read the TB comment in the article and casually wondered if it would be a topic for discussion in the thread, as the comment piqued my interest as well. Turns out it's the only thing anyone's discussing, which is great for lurker entertainment, but not much else.
On July 16 2011 04:46 Slakter wrote: What is wrong with this thread, seriously? ^^
First of all, if it is as Inc says it is then it´s totally uninteresting. He has an opinion that isnt that big of a deal that noone should really mind.
If it`s a joke (which it isnt) then it would just not be all that funny, not much to discuss here.
If he really really meant that he hated TB then why do people give so many fucks about it? If someone Hates TB for making videos then he´s freaking silly and should just be ignored, the biggest punishment for saying something retarded like that is that people wont hire him anyways, not that some Internet forum-superheroes go on a rant for 23 fucking pages...
Anyways, Incontrol, you`re a really cool dude and your opinion is your own but you could have worded it a bit differently, not saying you said something else than you meant but judging from this thread, you have to treat us fans like kids to be able to make a point.
So you would rather incontrol never be hired for anything and be ignored rather than people discussing whether or not his statement was dumb. Okay. He has opinions. We have opinions, that sometimes counter his. Boo hoo. Here's a hint: anyone who really hates inc wants him to keep making these mistakes, because they hurt his credibility. We are trying to convince him that he needs to stop making these kinds of dumb statements, so that he won't get burned again in the future. If you want to close your eyes and pretend that saying things never has any consequences, then go ahead. If you have an argument to be made, then make it.
On July 15 2011 17:48 Wesso wrote: Maybe Incontrol has some inside information, like TB asking more money than others for casting in large tournaments etc. Still strange to say such a thing randomly in an interview, and not at all the impression I have of TB.
I don't think I really need to get involved in this thread in a major way, the community has already made it's stance known and I thank them for that, but I can provide a little perspective on this one.
NASL paid $100 for my casting with Gretorp, for a 4-5 hour job. This is their "standard fee", I do not know what they paid everyone else. I accepted it and added it to the prizepool for SCI.
I spent a couple of thousand to get to Dreamhack, I was not paid for that event. I got VoD rights which meant I could recoup some of it over the course of several months, otherwise I paid my travel and accomodation, rented a car, brought my own gear and was asked to cast on the Dreamhack stream so they received the stream revenue.
As for the other tournaments, aside from IPL who have a tendency of paying everyone fairly, players included as you've seen from IPL's prize distribution, I've made a loss on every tournament I've casted, because it takes time away from doing other, more popular content. Just to clear up some outdated information by some folks, I stopped doing WoW content a couple of months ago because I was no longer enjoying the game. It was a big earner but I cut it entirely, specifically in protest at a move by Blizzard to appease bad players by nerfing the content I enjoyed. I believed this was a betrayal of their statement they made at the start of this expansion, that "Raiding is hard, man up and get better". My primary income at this point comes from my daily Mailbox gaming podcast, my WTF is? (by far the most popular series I do), Terraria and my League of Legends gameplays. Starcraft 2 remains a small portion of my income and as you all know, all my stream revenue funds tournaments so I don't see a dime of that.
One last thing for those with short memories.
- my first Starcraft 2 cast, on Day 1 of beta. As a sidenote of trivia, this cast was featured by Blizzard as a way to help people overcome their fear of getting into SC2.
- the day I became a Youtube partner, 6 months later. If you don't understand what that means, in order to get paid for any videos you do, you have to be a partner, so I wasn't earning anything at all from it before that. I think you can draw your own conclusions there.
I don't think anything else really needs to be addressed, others have said it for me. Look out for a special announcement coming very soon on the tournament side of things!
I'm just going to go ahead and quote this. A LOT of people seemed to glaze over it the 1st time he posted it. This basically ends the discussion IMO.
On July 16 2011 04:46 Slakter wrote: What is wrong with this thread, seriously? ^^
First of all, if it is as Inc says it is then it´s totally uninteresting. He has an opinion that isnt that big of a deal that noone should really mind.
If it`s a joke (which it isnt) then it would just not be all that funny, not much to discuss here.
If he really really meant that he hated TB then why do people give so many fucks about it? If someone Hates TB for making videos then he´s freaking silly and should just be ignored, the biggest punishment for saying something retarded like that is that people wont hire him anyways, not that some Internet forum-superheroes go on a rant for 23 fucking pages...
Anyways, Incontrol, you`re a really cool dude and your opinion is your own but you could have worded it a bit differently, not saying you said something else than you meant but judging from this thread, you have to treat us fans like kids to be able to make a point.
So you would rather incontrol never be hired for anything and be ignored rather than people discussing whether or not his statement was dumb. Okay. He has opinions. We have opinions, that sometimes counter his. Boo hoo. Here's a hint: anyone who really hates inc wants him to keep making these mistakes, because they hurt his credibility. We are trying to convince him that he needs to stop making these kinds of dumb statements, so that he won't get burned again in the future. If you want to close your eyes and pretend that saying things never has any consequences, then go ahead. If you have an argument to be made, then make it.
I`d rather if people think he`s a retard let him be a retard and let it all sort itself out. However, he is not a retard, the only retarded thing is still discussing this. Incontrol meant something else than some people thought he meant, end!
People arent making the argument that he should word it a little differently in here however, they´re saying that he meant something completely different than he himself says he did.
On July 16 2011 03:24 enecateReAP wrote: To be honest, all these arguments aside, personally I think TB makes us brits look like idiots, his commentary is just irritating, it isn't even entertaining. Inc can make any statement he wants, doesn't mean everyone has go off about it, noone will even remember this in awhile.
And to everyone saying that he always goes off at Tyler...I mean COME ON. Aren't you guys pissed at Tyler? What was once a great player is too busy to do his occupation? Too lazy? Too Unmotivated? I don't care if he's 'insulting' Tyler, everyone wants Tyler to get off his ass and show us how good we all know he is.
Doesn't Tyler have a family? Maybe his time is really limited compared to the other gamers. I think it's not that he's lazy or anything and before getting to know him as a person, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.
I think you forget that pro-gaming is his occupation? He gets payed, to play this game.
Ofcourse he has a family, just like every other worker in the world has a family, they should still do their job.
Most Koreans practise at least 12 hours a day. Even a pro-football player in the NFL doesn't work that long. All I'm saying is that there is probably a context here.
In the average american context, people work 9-5, which is 8 hours. Why can't he put atleast those hours in? If he wants pro-gaming to be his occupation, then surely he should respect it enough to put the itme in? I understand that Tyler does a lot for the community, but he could do so much more as a player.
Is tyler a full time gamer though? Isn't he going to school or have another job?
I don't know how he could support himself as a gamer with his lack of results. Maybe TL/Stride pay him well?
On another note, I like TB, and I don't know why Incontrol would say something like that, but meh, I'm sure TB isn't losing any sleep over it.
I only wish iNcontroL wasn't a host on Inside the Game. He has always started a criticism with "I like him/her, we're good friends but..." and now this. If you have a problem with somebody on your "social level" then discuss it, don't just hate on him/her via 3rd party. This is just low.
Trust me I am the first one to be like "wow i seem to have stumbled into serious town" but incontrol's personality has needled my psyche for the last six months or so and from the looks of it, I'm not alone
Incontrol made a fool of himself in this interview and thread, but come on man if his actions over the past 6 months are actually affecting your psyche you need to take a step back and get a grip.
These threads are so frustrating because people are being critical of someone for being critical but they don't understand the inherent hypocrisy involved in that.
The guy is just honest about how he feels. More power to him, especially when he doesn't have a pseudonym to hide behind like most forums posters.
In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
EPT
