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On July 15 2011 23:07 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 23:02 chokke wrote:On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote:
Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc. You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low. Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
And he still wouldn't be winning the tournaments.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
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Yeah, Geoff is right everybody who is just in SC2 for making money should get out!
Steelseries and Razer get out! Pepsi get out! My ESPORTS needs to be pure!
-_-
The fact that incontrol singles out TB, just shows that he either needs to create some kind of Drama, otherwise not a lot of people would care for this stuff, or he could not think of a diffrent person to name, whith which he is not involved in any way. The fact that he claims TB is just in it for the money, is without logical reason and evidence. If he has ANY evidence, why he thinks this, i would like to see it. Otherwise he is just talking out of his arse.
If there was no other person he could name in this moment and just randomly went for TB, cause he could not think of another person and then decides to not retract or apologize for that statement, that would be just, sad.
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On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote:
those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
I added to my statement that these are what I drew from the quote. The statement in the actual interview struck me as odd since it always seemed as if you were friends with TB and spoke highly of him.
Either way I still think it isn't advantageous to the community to say that we want pretty girls coming to get involved on the action (for money) but we shouldn't respect people from other games coming (for money). I don't think you have to either be a "normal" person or already have been a part of the sc2 community to not be somebody just here for the money/somebody we want and respect. I don't see why we can't have both.
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I'm just overjoyed iNcontroL did not take a jab at TotalBiscuits professionalism, since that's a very jerk-y thing to do.
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On July 16 2011 02:15 forgottendreams wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 02:13 HaRxTears wrote:On July 16 2011 02:09 forgottendreams wrote:
I don't think you can really defend InC's decision to place Lindsey's intentions higher then TB's LOL.
Also for all the legions of TB fanboys out there saying "he puts money back in", this is a business strategy they teach you in college, you start an organization to be zero profit, or give free things away, or take away your own profit and give it away to attract attention and gain more loyalty. Please give it a rest like that makes him an angel, it's part of a business strategy.
This whole thread of people actually defending InC, TB or Lindsey makes me nauseous. You should read this maybe before blindly assuming things. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10317646 I've read that, all I read is a man making a wise decision to do long-term investing in a game with alot more future then a dying competitive WoW scene. To each their own on how they view that post.
You and Incontrol don't seem to realize that videogames can be unrelated to ESPORTS. A lot of Youtube commentators provide content from games that have no "scene"at all. I have no idea why you seem to think that he's moving from scene to scene to make money like some kind of traveling businessman
look at TB's channel, some of his most popular videos are from Magicka and Terraria
He doesn't need to "travel"from these scenes and get supporters from each of these scenes. The model is completely different. He already has a fanbase, who like watching him play any games. He plays these games, and gets views. Then new games come out, and he plays those game, and gets more views
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On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote:
those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
You have to admit though that it is very easy to understand you that way, Geoff...
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Also, if you're still in touch with Lindsey Sporrer, don't try to defend her anymore, it's a waste of time. Not saying she deserves criticism, but that she should expect criticism. If she still decides to continue with being involved in E-Sports, the thing she should do is get better and prove people wrong.
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incontrol just stirring the pot, getting people to talk.
nothing new. ^^
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On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote:
those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
pfft. I think the random tl forum poster knows a little more then you do about what you actually meant. But just to be silly, What exactly did you mean? Were u really thinking about the fact that this was an interview?
I mean you definatly know alot more then I do about what actually goes on in regards to money, motives, etc in e-sports, but I can't figure out why you would single out TB, did he's name just pop into your head or do you know something I'm not aware of? This is just your personal oppinion im assuming and not based of a specific event?
I never bought an NASL season ticket, the price was more then I usually dish out and i was cautious about the funding for the leauge ever since xeris announced it was 'privately funded' (sacred the hell outa me).
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On July 16 2011 02:15 forgottendreams wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 02:13 HaRxTears wrote:On July 16 2011 02:09 forgottendreams wrote:
I don't think you can really defend InC's decision to place Lindsey's intentions higher then TB's LOL.
Also for all the legions of TB fanboys out there saying "he puts money back in", this is a business strategy they teach you in college, you start an organization to be zero profit, or give free things away, or take away your own profit and give it away to attract attention and gain more loyalty. Please give it a rest like that makes him an angel, it's part of a business strategy.
This whole thread of people actually defending InC, TB or Lindsey makes me nauseous. You should read this maybe before blindly assuming things. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10317646 I've read that, all I read is a man making a wise decision to do long-term investing in a game with alot more future then a dying competitive WoW scene. To each their own on how they view that post.
Ah, freshman economics. it empowers the ignorant way more than it should.
Basic economics teaches you how a completely rational person acts. advanced economics will teach you that people act on emotion and experience as opposed to what "maximizes their profits on a long term scale" the vast, vast majority of the time.
In TB's case, his intrinsic motivation here is to make a living doing something he loves. Nobody's forced him to become a caster. It's obnoxiously ignorant to assume he switched to SC2 for the money when he could take basically any other job and have a much more stable financial situation. He didn't enjoy casting WoW anymore so he switched to SC2 full time. Assuming he did it for any other reason is patently retarded.
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I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Ya, only Geoff and co. can charge mad money for coaching and GOSUGUIDES!
Only Broodwar players can fleece others. 
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On July 16 2011 02:48 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote:
those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O I altered your statements to make them fit my argument better. The statement in the actual interview struck me as odd since it always seemed as if you were friends with TB and spoke highly of him. Either way I still think it isn't advantageous to the community to say that we want pretty girls coming to get involved on the action (for money) but we shouldn't respect people from other games coming (for money). I don't think you have to either be a "normal" person or already have been a part of the sc2 community to not be somebody just here for the money/somebody we want and respect. I don't see why we can't have both.
Updated for greater truthyness.
The shot at TB is fine. I know he is here to make a buck or two and thats great. Never seen him play a game, which is ok too. He has a great voice for broadcasting and brings some excitment and character to the game. He sometimes acts like he is casting with a higher purpose for e-sports, which I find weird.
Geoff is critical of everyone and should keep it up. Tyler gives the impression that isn't working as hard as he was before. And, damn it, I want him to work harder and put in the time. Geoff wants it too and he says it.
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I think this entire thing just got blown out of porportion. Srsly, these two people have both been fantastic in this community. Sure, Incontrol singled out TB, but he has his opinions. But all this flaming going on over this one statement seems a bit much.
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On July 16 2011 03:01 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 02:48 On_Slaught wrote:On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote:
those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O I altered your statements to make them fit my argument better. The statement in the actual interview struck me as odd since it always seemed as if you were friends with TB and spoke highly of him. Updated for greater truthyness. The shot at TB is fine. I know he is here to make a buck or two and thats great. Never seen him play a game, which is ok too. He has a great voice for broadcasting and brings some excitment and character to the game. He sometimes acts like he is casting with a higher purpose for e-sports, which I find weird. Geoff is critical of everyone and should keep it up. Tyler gives the impression that isn't working as hard as he was before. And, damn it, I want him to work harder and put in the time. Geoff wants it too and he says it.
The irony oozing from this post is nauseating. Nothing I said is inconsistent with his statement. His intent is another issue but we only have what he said in an official interview to go off.
I would agree this isn't worthy of any major drama but saying what amounts to libel against another member of the community without any clear reason is... interesting to say the least.
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On July 16 2011 03:01 xXFireandIceXx wrote:
I think this entire thing just got blown out of porportion. Srsly, these two people have both been fantastic in this community. Sure, Incontrol singled out TB, but he has his opinions. But all this flaming going on over this one statement seems a bit much.
Opinions are fine and all but why bring it up so much?
Till now i thought the TB jabbing like on stog were just some messing around and not taken seriously but when he saids this kind of stuff during an interview? Yea that is just asking for it.
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Dude its all about the ZvG you guys just don't get that the average person who doesn't know about starcraft wants to hear some random lady saying a bunch of things that don't exist while making the current fans Lol
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Sure, Incontrol singled out TB, but he has his opinions. But all this flaming going on over this one statement seems a bit much.
When you're a big name in a community and you target another big name in the community, this kind of discussion will INEVITABLY happen. Either Geoff knew this and expected it (maybe even welcomed it?), or he has learned nothing from his time on the internets.
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On July 16 2011 03:03 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 03:01 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2011 02:48 On_Slaught wrote:On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote:
those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O I altered your statements to make them fit my argument better. The statement in the actual interview struck me as odd since it always seemed as if you were friends with TB and spoke highly of him. Updated for greater truthyness. The shot at TB is fine. I know he is here to make a buck or two and thats great. Never seen him play a game, which is ok too. He has a great voice for broadcasting and brings some excitment and character to the game. He sometimes acts like he is casting with a higher purpose for e-sports, which I find weird. Geoff is critical of everyone and should keep it up. Tyler gives the impression that isn't working as hard as he was before. And, damn it, I want him to work harder and put in the time. Geoff wants it too and he says it. The irony oozing from this post is nauseating. Nothing I said is inconsistent with his statement. His intent is another issue but we only have what he said in an official interview to go off. I would agree this isn't worthy of any major drama but saying what amounts to libel against another member of the community without any clear reason is... interesting to say the least.
I understood that the "quotes" were in relation to an interview he gave. But they aren't quotes because Geoff did not speak those statements. If you want to quote him, then do so. Don't rewrite his statements in a manner that favors the point you are trying to make and then slap quotes on either end.
In real life, thats called give false statements or lying. If your under oath, it's perjury. In TL, its just somthing you should get called out for.
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Russian Federation798 Posts
Oh no coming into SC2 to make money is so bad!
If this doesn't happen how would SC2 grow as a ESPORT?
What is the reason that
Bliz created SC2?
MLG started hosing SC2 tournaments?
Why NASL started?
Would SC2 reach what BW did if major companies don't come into the scene? Why would these companies take part?
FOR MONEY
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EPT
