On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
He would be gone, his drive for money have shadowed his love for the game. He only cares about money now. People like Day9, Tasteless, Artosis would stick around. Incontrol would be out the door the first opportunity he has.
In fact, Incontrol was VERY LATE to the whole streaming thing. He saw that Idra was actually making a lot of money off JTV, so he started as well. He only cares about money.
Saying Incontrol cares only about the money is pretty ignorant to say. But anyway, since when caring about money is a bad thing?
On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
He would be gone, his drive for money have shadowed his love for the game. He only cares about money now. People like Day9, Tasteless, Artosis would stick around. Incontrol would be out the door the first opportunity he has.
In fact, Incontrol was VERY LATE to the whole streaming thing. He saw that Idra was actually making a lot of money off JTV, so he started as well. He only cares about money.
Saying Incontrol cares only about the money is pretty ignorant to say. But anyway, since when caring about money is a bad thing?
On July 15 2011 17:20 bounca wrote: note to self not to insult anyone in public unless you're idra otherwise you're a hero and are hilarious
Idra's comments are borne out of frustration with losing, and with the game. That is something that people can respect and identify with. Hence, people like it.
Incontrol's comments are borne out of jealously and a desire for attention (and losing too, just more than Idra). That is not something people can respect.
On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
Based on IC former achivements, I'd say he'd bail that sinking ship faster then the rats.
but sometimes I get the feeling that when he wants to he can be a great thinker.
If by great thinker you mean someone who can use high school level debate tactics to try and refute everyone with a different point of view than him, then you are right.
I encourage you to take a look at his post history and how he responds to people. Focus on the person rather than the argument, check. Level so many accusations it is impossible to defend, check. Create an extremely exaggerated case of what the opposition is saying then attack the straw-man, check. Ignoring what is being said and instead of refuting it changing the topic to something you have more knowledge about, check. Questioning the motives of those making arguments against you, check.
These techniques work on people who can't see through them, don't be one of them.
I agree 100% with most of your post but to put things in perspective I think Idra says smart things as well, for example.
Most of the time Idra is just being a smart-ass, or throwing out one-liners, Incontrol tries to actually convince people he is right and they are wrong by using bullshit tactics that most intelligent people can see through.
InControl defending one of many questionable NASL decisions by being a dick to a community figure that is albeit much less knowledgeable, a lot more likeable than himself. How do I end up not drawing conclusions about his character as a person?
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to him in every major tournament him enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
You do realise Geoff was a caster of the NASL? Did you read the interview? xD He had no input into anything.
I alsop like how you revert to personal insults towards Geoff to try and get your idiotic point through, Geoff has given more to this community than you could ever imagine, he won't ever read your post, and even if he did, he wouldn't care.
I didn't realise that people HAD to like eachother?
YOUR POST IS KILLING E-SPORTS.
To add, you're an idiot.
So I'm an idiot becuase I say that incontrol completely disrespects someone who does a huge amount for the community? When was the last time inc took money out of his own pocket to sponsor tournaments? What does inc being a caster for NASL even have anything to do with it? He was being paid to do a job. My 'idiot point' as you put it is that Inc obviously has no idea about what Totalbiscuit does. How can Totalbiscuit be 'in it for the money' if he takes £450 out of his own pocket to sponsor the Uk University Team League?
Who is the idiot here, really?
Incontrol has done SO MUCH more for the community than TotalBiscuit, so if you want to talk about disrespecting someone regardless of their contributions, why do you feel you have the right to disrespect incontrol?
By what measure do you reckon iNcontroL has done so much more for the community than TotalBiscuit? iNcontroL has a longer history dating back to BW, but if we forget that and simply consider the community from SC2 Beta and onward, I would say they are on an even footing.
TotalBiscuit has casted more. iNcontroL has been a figurehead of NASL for some time. He has been on SotG as well. But TotalBiscuit's reach in terms of fan base is pretty huge, having already covered lots of other games (and continuing to do so) when entering SC2. I would bet he has made a lot more people take interest in Starcraft 2 than iNcontroL has.
Let's take a look at two sentences that come directly one after the other.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Okay, so he takes offense at outsiders from other esports coming in to make money.
I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
And takes less offense at models coming in to make money because they're just there to look pretty.
So basically Incontrol is saying "get off our turf TB, you're taking attention away from our pretty girls"?
I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
And takes less offense at models coming in to make money because they're just there to look pretty.
So basically Incontrol is saying "get off our turf TB, you're taking attention away from my gf's friends"?
On July 15 2011 23:25 bonifaceviii wrote: Let's take a look at two sentences that come directly one after the other.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Okay, so he takes offense at outsiders from other esports coming in to make money.
I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
And takes less offense at models coming in to make money because they're just there to look pretty.
So basically Incontrol is saying "get off our turf TB, you're taking attention away from my gf's friends"?
fixed
I think it was on Weapon of Choice where it was being stated that Anna is not Lindsey's friend.
lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
On July 15 2011 23:36 AdamBanks wrote: lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
TB has hosted tournaments out of his pocket, casted tournaments for no pay, and made videos that help act as a gateway into the SC2 community. Incontrol plays in tournaments, has casted a tournament that he was payed for, was on a community podcast for (I assume) no pay, but has since left it so that he can be in one that he is being payed to do. Personally, it seems like TB is contributing more to the community than inc is.
On July 15 2011 23:36 AdamBanks wrote: lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
TB has hosted tournaments out of his pocket, casted tournaments for no pay, and made videos that help act as a gateway into the SC2 community. Incontrol plays in tournaments, has casted a tournament that he was payed for, was on a community podcast for (I assume) no pay, but has since left it so that he can be in one that he is being payed to do. Personally, it seems like TB is contributing more to the community than inc is.
Pretty much this. The key point people are missing is that Totalbiscuit takes money out of his own pocket to pay for events, sponsor prize pools and cast games. Inc is paid for *everything* he does. Everything. Even though that might not have always been the case in sc1, it is now, as his comments regarding Korea prove.
On July 15 2011 23:36 AdamBanks wrote: lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
Thou shall respect forum veterans sure. I don't see where it's being said in the rules that Thou shall disrespect people doing good stuff for ESPORTS
On July 15 2011 23:36 AdamBanks wrote: lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
Thou shall respect forum veterans sure. I don't see where it's being said in the rules that Thou shall disrespect people doing good stuff for ESPORTS
I understand your point. But I'm not sure if i agree. To me its like, Let say that TB is royce gracie and inc is dana white. Royce arranged the first ufc and payed for it but dana made it a viable industry. Now who has done more for mma? I dont think there's a great answer here either way.
I know this is a very streched comparision so please don't bother to point that out as we all know inc is no dana white nor is tb a gracie. However i do think that because Inc has been around so long he has the right to speak he's mind and we should let him an TB mash this out rather then bash on inc or tb in the forums. Love the drama guys <3
On July 15 2011 23:36 AdamBanks wrote: lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
Thou shall respect forum veterans sure. I don't see where it's being said in the rules that Thou shall disrespect people doing good stuff for ESPORTS
I understand your point. But I'm not sure if i agree. To me its like, Let say that TB is royce gracie and inc is dana white. Royce arranged the first ufc and payed for it but dana made it a viable industry. Now who has done more for mma? I dont think there's a great answer here either way.
I know this is a very streched comparision so please don't bother to point that out as we all know inc is no dana white nor is tb a gracie. However i do think that because Inc has been around so long he has the right to speak he's mind and we should let him an TB mash this out rather then bash on inc or tb in the forums. Love the drama guys <3
Now its a silly example but
Incontrol "flaming" (I couldn't find a better word thanks to my poor vocabulary) some random hater on TL forums is one thing. Incontrol "flaming" Totalbiscuit by saying that he got into SC2 for the money when TB has put a lot of his money in doing good things for the community (organizing/sponsoring/casting tournaments) is another.
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to you in every major tournament you enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
Yeah because there are WoW tournaments cropping up everywhere OH WAIT.
That's because Blizzard is mishandling WoW completely.
EPT
