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On July 15 2011 22:35 enecateReAP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote:
Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to him in every major tournament him enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense. You do realise Geoff was a caster of the NASL? Did you read the interview? xD He had no input into anything. I alsop like how you revert to personal insults towards Geoff to try and get your idiotic point through, Geoff has given more to this community than you could ever imagine, he won't ever read your post, and even if he did, he wouldn't care. I didn't realise that people HAD to like eachother? YOUR POST IS KILLING E-SPORTS. To add, you're an idiot.
So I'm an idiot becuase I say that incontrol completely disrespects someone who does a huge amount for the community? When was the last time inc took money out of his own pocket to sponsor tournaments? What does inc being a caster for NASL even have anything to do with it? He was being paid to do a job. My 'idiot point' as you put it is that Inc obviously has no idea about what Totalbiscuit does. How can Totalbiscuit be 'in it for the money' if he takes £450 out of his own pocket to sponsor the Uk University Team League?
Who is the idiot here, really?
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On July 15 2011 22:48 cape wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 22:46 The KY wrote:
It's hilarious; I saw a comment on a youtube video that said 'Fuck Incontrol, I'm not paying $25!'
People genuinely still think Incontrol runs NASL. Or maybe they don't like incontrol and don't want to help fund something he is involved in?
Then you dont write "Fuck incontrol, I'm not paying $25!"...
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On July 15 2011 22:49 Lutto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 22:48 cape wrote:On July 15 2011 22:46 The KY wrote:
It's hilarious; I saw a comment on a youtube video that said 'Fuck Incontrol, I'm not paying $25!'
People genuinely still think Incontrol runs NASL. Or maybe they don't like incontrol and don't want to help fund something he is involved in? Then you dont write "Fuck incontrol, I'm not paying $25!"...
Nitpicking youtube comments is probably the most pointless thing you can do.
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On July 15 2011 22:52 Novalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 22:49 Lutto wrote:On July 15 2011 22:48 cape wrote:On July 15 2011 22:46 The KY wrote:
It's hilarious; I saw a comment on a youtube video that said 'Fuck Incontrol, I'm not paying $25!'
People genuinely still think Incontrol runs NASL. Or maybe they don't like incontrol and don't want to help fund something he is involved in? Then you dont write "Fuck incontrol, I'm not paying $25!"... Nitpicking youtube comments is probably the most pointless thing you can do.
yeah prob.
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On July 15 2011 22:42 Novalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 22:38 Linwelin wrote:On July 15 2011 22:34 Novalisk wrote:On July 15 2011 22:32 Trowa127 wrote:On July 15 2011 22:29 Lutto wrote:
Just becuse wow has 10 million players (lost around 1 million the last expansion) dosent make it "bigger" than sc2 its so much smaller, theres almost no tournaments and no streams anymore(atleast not what it used to be) and the PvE is not what blizzard promised and the game is dying..
So no you cant compare wow to starcraft by looking by the numbers of players... So many WoW is dying morons out there. Over 10 million subscribers = not dying. Starcraft lost FIFTY PERCENT of its players on ladder between season 1 and 2. 50%. Does that mean its dying Lutto? Well WoW doesn't have anything to balance that player loss. There is no expansion on the horizon, and no booming stream/tournament viewership. New content got released 3 weeks ago. And again, as many people said, WoW's popularity has barely anything to do with tournaments/streams. There is just a huge amount of content available to anyone and new content is being introduced every now and then. That was my point, WoW doesn't have that stream/tournament factor to balance its player loss. If people aren't playing SC2, they're still watching streams which help promote the game. If people aren't playing WoW, they're playing something else.
You are right about that but honestly losing some people but still having over 10 million players is not what I call "the decline" as other people said.
WoW has more competition than sc2 with all the new MMO's coming out every 6 months. Until now, none of these proved to be better than WoW. When AoC or Aion (I'm probably missing some others) came out, so many people said that "WoW is dying". A lot people tried these new games, got disapointed and came back to WoW. Of course some people quitted WoW and played other games but that's pretty normal.
Edit: Anyway we cannot compare WoW and SC2 which are two very different games and their popularity is due to different things so let's just stop. I just wanted to clarify some things for some people 
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On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote:
Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
When did this happen?
And why is he funding tournaments with the money he makes from streaming? Are we even talking about the same person?
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Isn't Incontrol exactly like TotalBiscuit in that regard, "making money" off SC2?
Oh god...
Inc did not make a comment on the fact that Totalbiscuit was making money off SC2 but on the fact that he came to SC2 to make money.
Which in his eyes is less "admirable?" than A: being a die hard fan of SC, go into SC2 and eventually make money off your passion. And B: being hired by an organisation to provide a service.
You can argue that TB came into SC2 because he loved it and not because he wanted to make money. You can also argue that Incontrol's opinion is wrong but please don't distort his words.
I'm new to this site, but i really feel that people should tune down the crazy before posting.
That's not pointed at you Sharuko, but there are posts on this thread that made me go: wtf did that guy put in is crack this morning  .
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On July 15 2011 22:56 Diavlo wrote:Show nested quote +Isn't Incontrol exactly like TotalBiscuit in that regard, "making money" off SC2? Oh god... Inc did not make a comment on the fact that Totalbiscuit was making money off SC2 but on the fact that he came to SC2 to make money. Which in his eyes is less "admirable?" than A: being a die hard fan of SC, go into SC2 and eventually make money off your passion. And B: being hired by an organisation to provide a service. You can argue that TB came into SC2 because he loved it and not because he wanted to make money. You can also argue that Incontrol's opinion is wrong but please don't distort his words. I'm new to this site, but i really feel that people should tune down the crazy before posting. That's not pointed at you Sharuko, but there are posts on this thread that made me go: wtf did that guy put in is crack this morning .
He complains about people coming to SC2 to make money yet he himself is driven by money primarily as he has used the money argument multiple times about moving to korea. Moving to korea is not that good for income but it could actually make him win something, not just make money of streaming, coaching and being a, at best, average foreigner.
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Wait so how is it insulting for people coming from other games but it is ok for some completely random noname bimbo???? hypocrisy much? In the same bloody paragraph too...
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On July 15 2011 22:53 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 22:42 Novalisk wrote:On July 15 2011 22:38 Linwelin wrote:On July 15 2011 22:34 Novalisk wrote:On July 15 2011 22:32 Trowa127 wrote:On July 15 2011 22:29 Lutto wrote:
Just becuse wow has 10 million players (lost around 1 million the last expansion) dosent make it "bigger" than sc2 its so much smaller, theres almost no tournaments and no streams anymore(atleast not what it used to be) and the PvE is not what blizzard promised and the game is dying..
So no you cant compare wow to starcraft by looking by the numbers of players... So many WoW is dying morons out there. Over 10 million subscribers = not dying. Starcraft lost FIFTY PERCENT of its players on ladder between season 1 and 2. 50%. Does that mean its dying Lutto? Well WoW doesn't have anything to balance that player loss. There is no expansion on the horizon, and no booming stream/tournament viewership. New content got released 3 weeks ago. And again, as many people said, WoW's popularity has barely anything to do with tournaments/streams. There is just a huge amount of content available to anyone and new content is being introduced every now and then. That was my point, WoW doesn't have that stream/tournament factor to balance its player loss. If people aren't playing SC2, they're still watching streams which help promote the game. If people aren't playing WoW, they're playing something else. You are right about that but honestly losing some people but still having over 10 million players is not what I call "the decline" as other people said. WoW has more competition than sc2 with all the new MMO's coming out every 6 months. Until now, none of these proved to be better than WoW. When AoC or Aion (I'm probably missing some others) came out, so many people said that "WoW is dying". A lot people tried these new games, got disapointed and came back to WoW. Of course some people quitted WoW and played other games but that's pretty normal.
WoW has a lot easier target group though. RTS is one of those games that is truely screwed compared to FPS and RPG, both of whom are a lot easier to play(well most anyway) and catter to a lot bigger audience. Hence the number of players is kind of abstract imo when comparing between genres(I know direct comparison wasn't done, but I feel it is still being implied).
I think the whole "WoW is dying" is mainly due to the fact that there are a lot of games actually contending with WoW these days. Through WoW's lifetime, it has just spanked other RPGs and it has never been an issue. This along with the general atmosphere in the game that the developers are out of ideas, that pretty much everything has been done leaves me and most the people I've talked to about this, with not so optimistic view of WoW's future. But maybe it's just me, afterall we're just speculating on the future.
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On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote:
Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
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Let's get the BW people in here too complaining about how all the players betrayed the better game, because petty infighting is Good For Esports.
I honestly don't know how he thought saying this was a good idea.
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8751 Posts
On July 15 2011 22:56 Diavlo wrote:Show nested quote +Isn't Incontrol exactly like TotalBiscuit in that regard, "making money" off SC2? Oh god... Inc did not make a comment on the fact that Totalbiscuit was making money off SC2 but on the fact that he came to SC2 to make money. Which in his eyes is less "admirable?" than A: being a die hard fan of SC, go into SC2 and eventually make money off your passion. And B: being hired by an organisation to provide a service. You can argue that TB came into SC2 because he loved it and not because he wanted to make money. You can also argue that Incontrol's opinion is wrong but please don't distort his words. I'm new to this site, but i really feel that people should tune down the crazy before posting. That's not pointed at you Sharuko, but there are posts on this thread that made me go: wtf did that guy put in is crack this morning .
It's not a distortion of words. It's just putting things into perspective. Any person who has previously made money off of video games by reporting on them, playing them competitively or casting them, who picks up SC2 and proceeds to make money from it, should not be automatically labeled as someone who came to SC2 just to make money. If TB of all people is going to be labeled that way, then incontrol should certainly be labeled that way, since I'm pretty sure incontrol was planning to make a career out of sc2 since day 1. It doesn't have to be a negative label, anyway. Either someone makes a good contribution to the community or they don't. Who cares how much money they make if they have a positive effect.
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On July 15 2011 23:02 chokke wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote:
Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc. You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
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It's a shame about the really dumb comment, because otherwise it was a good interview.
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On July 15 2011 23:03 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Who cares how much money they make if they have a positive effect.
Apparently iNcontroL does.
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On July 15 2011 22:49 Trowa127 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 22:35 enecateReAP wrote:On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote:
Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to him in every major tournament him enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense. You do realise Geoff was a caster of the NASL? Did you read the interview? xD He had no input into anything. I alsop like how you revert to personal insults towards Geoff to try and get your idiotic point through, Geoff has given more to this community than you could ever imagine, he won't ever read your post, and even if he did, he wouldn't care. I didn't realise that people HAD to like eachother? YOUR POST IS KILLING E-SPORTS. To add, you're an idiot. So I'm an idiot becuase I say that incontrol completely disrespects someone who does a huge amount for the community? When was the last time inc took money out of his own pocket to sponsor tournaments? What does inc being a caster for NASL even have anything to do with it? He was being paid to do a job. My 'idiot point' as you put it is that Inc obviously has no idea about what Totalbiscuit does. How can Totalbiscuit be 'in it for the money' if he takes £450 out of his own pocket to sponsor the Uk University Team League? Who is the idiot here, really?
Incontrol has done SO MUCH more for the community than TotalBiscuit, so if you want to talk about disrespecting someone regardless of their contributions, why do you feel you have the right to disrespect incontrol?
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On July 15 2011 23:07 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 23:02 chokke wrote:On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote:
Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc. You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low. Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
He would be gone, his drive for money have shadowed his love for the game. He only cares about money now. People like Day9, Tasteless, Artosis would stick around. Incontrol would be out the door the first opportunity he has. He isn't quitting NASL to become a better player, he is quitting NASL because he knows streaming and coaching will make him more money than NASL can. Specially after the failure of NASL in season, there will be even less money for NASL in season 2.
In fact, Incontrol was VERY LATE to the whole streaming thing. He saw that Idra was actually making a lot of money off JTV, so he started as well. He only cares about money.
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515 Posts
On July 15 2011 21:38 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +but sometimes I get the feeling that when he wants to he can be a great thinker. If by great thinker you mean someone who can use high school level debate tactics to try and refute everyone with a different point of view than him, then you are right. I encourage you to take a look at his post history and how he responds to people. Focus on the person rather than the argument, check. Level so many accusations it is impossible to defend, check. Create an extremely exaggerated case of what the opposition is saying then attack the straw-man, check. Ignoring what is being said and instead of refuting it changing the topic to something you have more knowledge about, check. Questioning the motives of those making arguments against you, check. These techniques work on people who can't see through them, don't be one of them.
That just show that he read Schopenhauer or someone copying him.
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On July 15 2011 23:12 enecateReAP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 22:49 Trowa127 wrote:On July 15 2011 22:35 enecateReAP wrote:On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote:
Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to him in every major tournament him enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense. You do realise Geoff was a caster of the NASL? Did you read the interview? xD He had no input into anything. I alsop like how you revert to personal insults towards Geoff to try and get your idiotic point through, Geoff has given more to this community than you could ever imagine, he won't ever read your post, and even if he did, he wouldn't care. I didn't realise that people HAD to like eachother? YOUR POST IS KILLING E-SPORTS. To add, you're an idiot. So I'm an idiot becuase I say that incontrol completely disrespects someone who does a huge amount for the community? When was the last time inc took money out of his own pocket to sponsor tournaments? What does inc being a caster for NASL even have anything to do with it? He was being paid to do a job. My 'idiot point' as you put it is that Inc obviously has no idea about what Totalbiscuit does. How can Totalbiscuit be 'in it for the money' if he takes £450 out of his own pocket to sponsor the Uk University Team League? Who is the idiot here, really? Incontrol has done SO MUCH more for the community than TotalBiscuit, so if you want to talk about disrespecting someone regardless of their contributions, why do you feel you have the right to disrespect incontrol?
There's a huge difference between shitting on someone who contributes to the community and speaking out and saying your annoyed by that kind of behavior. One is disrespectful and one is just critical of the double standards.
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