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For anyone who has played on both, would you say that Standard or Classic is more efficient than Grid?
I started out playing Grid because I found it annoying to memorize hotkeys. However, 1k plus games later and a quite a few losses due to a misclick, I have been debating for a while switching to Standard or Classic. However, as you'd imagine, after 1k+ games it's tough for me to switch.
Is there any way I can adapt to Standard easier? Should I use Standard or Classic? How long do you think it will take for me to adapt?
In case if it matters, my race is Protoss and my league is Gold, hopefully Plat next season :3
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Nobody is use to it from the get-go, but it really doesnt take long to at least be sufficient.. Its really up to the player i guess, but i prefer standard.
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I used grid style in WC3 and have continued using it in SC2. I really prefer it, because you can get to every command very quickly, but it's just a matter of taste.
Standard isn't going to save you from misclicking, though. There was an important PvP just recently that was lost due to a [G]uardian Shield being ordered instead of [H]old Position.
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I played around 1k5 games with grid, and I'm now switching to standart for one main reason : spellcasters.
I've really a hard time using multiple spell casters /w grid and it's way easier with standart. I think that with 50/100 games it's ok but you'll improve for a while.
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I played using grid in WarCraft3 for a few years, but was "forced" to switch back to default keybinds when the SC2 beta came out. It wasn't tricky at all to adapt to the default settings, and after a few weeks it became second nature again.
May I ask why you want to change from Grid to Standard? If Grid is working out ok for you, there's no real reason to switch it up, right?
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Grid has too many overlapping hotkeys and standard has some awkward ones. THe best idea is to create a custom setup that works for you IMO.
control groups on 1-6 and f1-f4 for me, with GHJK used for camera locations. The rest is standard.
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On July 14 2011 17:22 Imres wrote:
I played around 1k5 games with grid, and I'm now switching to standart for one main reason : spellcasters.
I've really a hard time using multiple spell casters /w grid and it's way easier with standart. I think that with 50/100 games it's ok but you'll improve for a while.
What's your league?
50-100 games o_O
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I'd say it's the other way around. Switching from standard to grid is worth it (I did), not the other way around. Grid is simply a LOT more effective, the actions are closer together and in more logical positions, making it really easy for your brain to adapt and connect to your fingers.
That said, changing keys you are uncomfortable with is a must. Most people have a problem with t-move instead of a-move, but nothing is stopping you from changing the hotkey. I put my t on my mouse.
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On July 14 2011 17:25 MrCynical wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 17:22 Imres wrote:
I played around 1k5 games with grid, and I'm now switching to standart for one main reason : spellcasters.
I've really a hard time using multiple spell casters /w grid and it's way easier with standart. I think that with 50/100 games it's ok but you'll improve for a while. What's your league? 50-100 games o_O
A minimum of 100 games would really fix it because you need to learn to configure your muscle memory to remember the hotkeys all at once (rather than a few at a time which is easier).
Its like learning to play guitar for 2 years, (so you can remember all fret/note locations) swapping all the strings into different random orders and being asked to play a tune you could play before (the tuning would be the same, but the frets would all be completely different).
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I have the same question in my mind, played +1k games as grid (not really grid but a custom version of it, with attack on A and some minor changes) and im high diamond. My concern about grid style is that the keys are maybe too much concentrated in one area of the keyboard, which is ok for reaching them fast but on the other side missclicks are more common overall. I think standard is maybe better, with the added value that you are forced to move more the hands, with training i think this will result in a more precise playstile. And im zerg too, and with standard you got no annoyng drone/select larva key issues. I will try standard, knowing that will get lot of games to become second nature to me.
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On July 14 2011 17:25 MrCynical wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 17:22 Imres wrote:
I played around 1k5 games with grid, and I'm now switching to standart for one main reason : spellcasters.
I've really a hard time using multiple spell casters /w grid and it's way easier with standart. I think that with 50/100 games it's ok but you'll improve for a while. What's your league? 50-100 games o_O
I'm master but that's not the topic and i've a low apm anyway :D.
It's the minimum imo in order to don't missclick and don't have to look at your keyboard.
I just switched, and atm I think I'll do again all the challenges with my race, just to learn some basics efficiently then customs and then ladder/tournament.
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Or you could just use the standard ones. Why are there always people trying to make the gaming experience easier?
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Yeah, I don't know if I want to commit 100 games where I will be performing far more sluggishly than I am now, but the performance payoff afterwards could be worth it. There are just too many overlapping hotkeys when playing Grid...
Another problem I just thought of about playing Standard or Classic is that I'll have a harder time offracing, which I do when playing team games with my friends.
I wish I never dug myself into this hole, haha
Feels bad man.
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On July 14 2011 17:25 Fishgle wrote:
Grid has too many overlapping hotkeys and standard has some awkward ones. THe best idea is to create a custom setup that works for you IMO.
control groups on 1-6 and f1-f4 for me, with GHJK used for camera locations. The rest is standard.
i like that camera locations plus f1-f4 (for my queens 3+), i will give it a try thanks.
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Standard imo. Its pretty intuitive and basically is more of a function of you understanding your keyboard layout better.
Off-racing isn't a big deal at all; at least, i've never really heard any complaints from standard users.
And although its not really definitive evidence of superiority, i do believe most progamers and top players are standard layout'ers
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I played standard, switched to grid and finally (once available) made my own custom hotkeys using a mix of both. (I constantly had issues with issuing attack vs attack while accidentally using stim instead - i play terran))
all my upgrades are Q-W-E / A-S-D (as applicable) Most of my spell hotkeys are Z-X-C. Spells I got very comfortable with I use grid keys as secondary keys (EMP is actually both X and/or E - I never got good with snipe before changing so it is Z)
most of my production building/units are also set up as Q-W-E-R-T with the occasional unit getting multiple hotkeys (siege tanks are both S and/or W, marines are both Q and/or A etc)
I mostly went away from Grid on move/attack commands. I kept attack, hold, stop, patrol, move because I was so accustomed to them.
I also use this setup for random and ran into a few problems as protoss: gateways would use Z for warp into warpgate instead of create zealot, because W is used for any building that has more than one upgrade/production capability you need a new hotkey for warpgates (i usually have them in a control group anyway). spells were again much easier to keep on the standard keys (although I would also give them Z-X-C as secondary keys).
Overall, I very much like the mix of grid keys for production (macro) and standard keys for unit control (micro) with keeping a lot of alternate (grid) keys available and it shouldn't take very long at all to get adjusted to.
TLDR - I used standard keys with grid keys as secondary keys. In cases where this created problems (stim vs attack on T) I went with what was more comfortable (A for attack, Z/T for stim).
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Well It depends on preference really, I am the opposite I started on standard but switched to grid because I felt it was more efficient. I feel the pros outweigh the cons, even though I have only been using it for ~25 games or so.
Pros of Grid:
-everything is closer, minimal hand movement is required, for split second engagements I find this really helps
-easy access to the hold, patrol and move commands, which I find very useful as terran.
-no awkward hotkeys on the other side of they keyboard (even if they are not used very often, when you do want to use them on standard you'll find yourself annoyed)
-easier to cast multiple different abilities quickly since the key is the same. For example for terran I can stim, siege, cast EMP and cast PDD all together much faster since the keys are z and x only, whereas you need to hit 4 different hotkeys to do so with standard, greatly increasing the chance of error and slowing you down.
Cons:
-harder to get used to, especially t-move just feels unintuitive (it took me atleast 5 games vs to ai to stop trying to a-move all the time)
-hotkeys are all close together which means potentially more misclicks, but I havn't had this issue since I find I'm much more accurate as the keys are directly beneath my hand. I'd frequently hit the wrong key for the far away hotkeys like b&v, h&g when I was using standard.
-spellcasters, its easier to cast the wrong spell by mistake or cast with the wrong unit I guess but you can usually tell by the targeting system what you have selected. I'm finding as I become more used to this its less of an issue, you just have to be careful your are tabbed to the right unit or you have the right control group selected.
Both systems are workable though, I don't feel theres a huge advantage to either.
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You should take the time to customize your hotkeys to your comfort. Grid and standard both have its advantages but you can always mold either of them to your liking.
Adaptation will come over time. Probably not 100 games but I've switched my hotkeys around a couple times and it took me a day or 2 to get used to.
If you've found a hotkey system you feel will benefit you then definitely take the time to try to change. You will not regret it.
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On July 14 2011 17:34 SdNGama wrote:
I have the same question in my mind, played +1k games as grid (not really grid but a custom version of it, with attack on A and some minor changes) and im high diamond. My concern about grid style is that the keys are maybe too much concentrated in one area of the keyboard, which is ok for reaching them fast but on the other side missclicks are more common overall. I think standard is maybe better, with the added value that you are forced to move more the hands, with training i think this will result in a more precise playstile. And im zerg too, and with standard you got no annoyng drone/select larva key issues. I will try standard, knowing that will get lot of games to become second nature to me.
The risk of a misclick is much higher if you have to move your fingers farther. The only difference is that a misclick in standard does nothing, while it might do the wrong thing in grid. Not that I ever misclick though, since my fingers are on the buttons I need. Since I play zerg, I use my queens constantly every game, so I'm fine with the spells as well.
Keys overlapping is the whole point, it's a good thing. It's not a misclick if you cast guardian shield when you intend to cast psychic storm since it relies on you having selected the wrong unit.
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EPT
