|
On July 13 2011 00:10 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 23:14 Hammurabio wrote:Just so it is clear, here's what Xeris said about Strelok and his VISA in March: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203988¤tpage=207#4122As for NightEnd -- once again: Romania is a "high risk" country, as are Russia, Ukraine, and Poland (just because Romania is in the EU doesn't mean they have a VISA waiver program... which they don't, which makes it automatically more difficult to get a VISA to the US). We didn't want to have multiple "high risk" players in the league due to obvious reasons. What if more than 1 of them qualifies for the finals, can't get a VISA, and don't show up? That ruins our live event completely.
White-Ra has demonstrated an ability to come to the US, BRAT_OK showed us his VISA, as did Strelok. So we were really left with two players (MaNa and NightEnd) from "high risk" countries. We only wanted to select 1; we chose MaNa. As I said multiple times before -- I should have explicitly stated the need for a VISA. I mistakenly thought it was obvious that people outside the US would ask about it considering the contract states that you must guarantee your ability to enter the US. It was my fault for not explicitly stating that they needed a VISA. So my question for Xeris, how could you have seen Strelok's VISA when he hadn't even applied for it? Was Strelok or MaNa the one "high risk" player? Now that's interesting. o.o
Correct me if im wrong but hasnt xeris alrdy explained this post?
|
On July 12 2011 22:27 ico wrote:Blaming players for delays and being ignorant towards feedback Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 13:11 Xeris wrote:
If you are posting about it being a problem, we've already thought about it.
does not shine a better light on you. I really hope you listen to some more of the feedback you got and don't ignore it because you might not like to hear it.
And adding the following:
1) http://www.sixjaxgaming.com/wp/scii/2011/03/08/20-questions-with-nasls-xeris/
XERIS: I honestly think people are upset because people just look for things to complain about
2) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=234791¤tpage=5#81
xeris: I acknowledge all the criticism, but I won't really do anything about it unless I get constructive criticism, which very few people do.
Since day 1, you have been very defensive towards criticism. It feels like only the criticism acceptable by your standards are considered constructive. Have you ever thought that, it is also possible to accept good and bad criticism constructively?
|
United States22883 Posts
On July 13 2011 00:14 AdamBanks wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 00:10 Jibba wrote:On July 12 2011 23:14 Hammurabio wrote:Just so it is clear, here's what Xeris said about Strelok and his VISA in March: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203988¤tpage=207#4122As for NightEnd -- once again: Romania is a "high risk" country, as are Russia, Ukraine, and Poland (just because Romania is in the EU doesn't mean they have a VISA waiver program... which they don't, which makes it automatically more difficult to get a VISA to the US). We didn't want to have multiple "high risk" players in the league due to obvious reasons. What if more than 1 of them qualifies for the finals, can't get a VISA, and don't show up? That ruins our live event completely.
White-Ra has demonstrated an ability to come to the US, BRAT_OK showed us his VISA, as did Strelok. So we were really left with two players (MaNa and NightEnd) from "high risk" countries. We only wanted to select 1; we chose MaNa. As I said multiple times before -- I should have explicitly stated the need for a VISA. I mistakenly thought it was obvious that people outside the US would ask about it considering the contract states that you must guarantee your ability to enter the US. It was my fault for not explicitly stating that they needed a VISA. So my question for Xeris, how could you have seen Strelok's VISA when he hadn't even applied for it? Was Strelok or MaNa the one "high risk" player? Now that's interesting. o.o Correct me if im wrong but hasnt xeris alrdy explained this post?
On July 03 2011 01:11 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote:
That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa? As we said at the start of the season, Strelok was the 'risk' player we accepted, because his team Mouz assured us that he could get a VISA on time.
MaNa was the 'risk' player. They saw Strelok's VISA.
|
Your ideas seem great (even though it, quite frankly, sucked for me as a stream viewer for much of the time for reasons you mentioned), I'm sure you'll do very well in the future.
The sports league setup is exactly what is needed.
One thing that I have thought about lately is that it is weird (in this and all SC2 competition) that the commentators are also the hosts of the show, handling all the intermediate talk between games. This does not seem to work out very well, for anyone. All other sports have separate commentators and a "studio". I'd love to see this here too!
|
On July 13 2011 00:16 sc2guy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 22:27 ico wrote:Blaming players for delays and being ignorant towards feedback On July 12 2011 13:11 Xeris wrote:
If you are posting about it being a problem, we've already thought about it.
does not shine a better light on you. I really hope you listen to some more of the feedback you got and don't ignore it because you might not like to hear it. And adding the following: 1) http://www.sixjaxgaming.com/wp/scii/2011/03/08/20-questions-with-nasls-xeris/Show nested quote +XERIS: I honestly think people are upset because people just look for things to complain about 2) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=234791¤tpage=5#81Show nested quote +xeris: I acknowledge all the criticism, but I won't really do anything about it unless I get constructive criticism, which very few people do. Since day 1, you have been very defensive towards criticism. It feels like only the criticism acceptable by your standards are considered constructive. Have you ever thought that, it is also possible to accept good and bad criticism constructively?
I agree. The saying is "The customer is always right" and not "The customer is only right if he raises his complaints in a constructive manner".
|
- SOUND, bad compression at VoDs, VoDs always off a few seconds, bad sound management at offline finals
- Video Quality on the LAN finals, saw interlace stripes all the time when things where moving, even at 1080p
- finals format, single elimination - no thanks
- rules, not showing up for a match is more favourable than showing up and losing - seriously?
- stupid filler videos - online "best of NASL", offline "way to the finals", way to long and just plain boring
|
On July 13 2011 00:16 sc2guy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 22:27 ico wrote:Blaming players for delays and being ignorant towards feedback On July 12 2011 13:11 Xeris wrote:
If you are posting about it being a problem, we've already thought about it.
does not shine a better light on you. I really hope you listen to some more of the feedback you got and don't ignore it because you might not like to hear it. And adding the following: 1) http://www.sixjaxgaming.com/wp/scii/2011/03/08/20-questions-with-nasls-xeris/Show nested quote +XERIS: I honestly think people are upset because people just look for things to complain about 2) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=234791¤tpage=5#81Show nested quote +xeris: I acknowledge all the criticism, but I won't really do anything about it unless I get constructive criticism, which very few people do. Since day 1, you have been very defensive towards criticism. It feels like only the criticism acceptable by your standards are considered constructive. Have you ever thought that, it is also possible to accept good and bad criticism constructively?
Completely agreed.
|
On July 13 2011 00:35 Doso wrote:
- SOUND, bad compression at VoDs, VoDs always off a few seconds, bad sound management at offline finals
- Video Quality on the LAN finals, saw interlace stripes all the time when things where moving, even at 1080p
- finals format, single elimination - no thanks
- rules, not showing up for a match is more favourable than showing up and losing - seriously?
- stupid filler videos - online "best of NASL", offline "way to the finals", way to long and just plain boring
Haha is that seriously true? Thats the most rediculous thing i've ever heard.
Also, the sound quality endured throughout the event, implying that you don't really know what you are talking about to be honest. Sure, it was worst in the beginning, but it did not get much better. For example, 1 of the mics were off during the first few questions of the winner(final) interview.
And as a lot of people have already pointed out, NASL staff in general seem very aggresive towards criticism...
|
On July 13 2011 00:20 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 00:14 AdamBanks wrote:On July 13 2011 00:10 Jibba wrote:On July 12 2011 23:14 Hammurabio wrote:Just so it is clear, here's what Xeris said about Strelok and his VISA in March: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203988¤tpage=207#4122As for NightEnd -- once again: Romania is a "high risk" country, as are Russia, Ukraine, and Poland (just because Romania is in the EU doesn't mean they have a VISA waiver program... which they don't, which makes it automatically more difficult to get a VISA to the US). We didn't want to have multiple "high risk" players in the league due to obvious reasons. What if more than 1 of them qualifies for the finals, can't get a VISA, and don't show up? That ruins our live event completely.
White-Ra has demonstrated an ability to come to the US, BRAT_OK showed us his VISA, as did Strelok. So we were really left with two players (MaNa and NightEnd) from "high risk" countries. We only wanted to select 1; we chose MaNa. As I said multiple times before -- I should have explicitly stated the need for a VISA. I mistakenly thought it was obvious that people outside the US would ask about it considering the contract states that you must guarantee your ability to enter the US. It was my fault for not explicitly stating that they needed a VISA. So my question for Xeris, how could you have seen Strelok's VISA when he hadn't even applied for it? Was Strelok or MaNa the one "high risk" player? Now that's interesting. o.o Correct me if im wrong but hasnt xeris alrdy explained this post? Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 01:11 Xeris wrote:On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote:
That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa? As we said at the start of the season, Strelok was the 'risk' player we accepted, because his team Mouz assured us that he could get a VISA on time. MaNa was the 'risk' player. They saw Strelok's VISA.
Ok looks like the question was brought up before but not adressed at the last of this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=239758¤tpage=19#362
|
On July 12 2011 15:42 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Xeris, I wanted and still do want the NASL to work. We as a community have extremely high standards and we expect those standards to be met if not surpassed. Growing pains are fine but Season 1 was a far cry from being a finished product.
NASL struck me as a project that garnered interest from some investors and enthusiasts, as well as community volunteers. But, it seemed from the start that there was no managerial presence, no structural hierarchy, and no responsibility. NASL felt like an "internet project", and I'll use a personal anecdote to explain:
When I was younger, my friend and I used to come up with ideas for RPGs. We had elaborate character backstories, we sketched out some character portraits, we thought up fun battle systems, but the only games we had created were simplistic RPGs in QBasic that used text as graphics. After a few years, the ideas grew bigger and more elaborate until we ultimately had the Internet at our disposal. The next thing I knew, he was pulling in all sorts of volunteers from all over the world who were submitting character portraits and game concepts to us. Because he was just grateful to receive any kind of help, he would say to anyone who submitted anything "WOW this character looks GREAT, THANK you for this omg" even if it was objectively terrible. The people who approached us were enthusiastic about working on the project, they shared our vision, and they wanted to be included. Those same people who submitted things would stick around for a week or two, then they'd disappear. When it came down to actual necessities like designing cities and dungeons, tile art, sprite art, cogent dialogue, we quickly realized how little we had. If we had a plan in place from the start, with an actual schedule and knowledge of what exactly we needed, we would have been able to make real headway as opposed to drowning.
That, to me, was NASL Season 1. It was like you had a grandiose idea for an awesome league, but the transition between the brainstorming phase and actual planning and delegation hit like a brick wall. Get a paid, qualified staff with experience in the field of editing and post-production. Get experienced department leaders who can manage their teams effectively, report issues to you upfront and provide their suggestions for improvement. Run it like the business it should be -- and needs to be in order to succeed. Volunteers and hopeful dreamers are no substitute for proven, experienced, career-minded professionals. Listen to their feedback and take it to heart.
You can dismiss this post as "hate" all you like, and you can shirk the blame all you like. You, Gretorp, and Inc are the faces of NASL whether you expected to be or not, and you guys are the ones who will be held collectively responsible for the positive or negative results of your league. All I know is that if my name is attached to something, I want to be its harshest critic and demand perfection at every turn.
The good news is that by changing things up, Season 2 can be a lot better. You've already received some constructive criticism in this thread and others, don't just ignore it because you think people are being hateful.
These are good suggestions but I doubt that NASL has the money to take on that payroll.
This is a good example of e-sports trying to run before it can walk.
IPL has a much more clever way of approaching things... gradually working its way up while proving the market.
|
I just want to say that the live finals were a pain to watch from Europe. With every day starting after 10 pm and lasting after 3 am for three days in a row can be a bit tiring, but you can't really help how time works. What you can help is give us something interesting to look at during the 40 minute breaks.
I mean a random woman who doesn't seem to know too much at all what she is talking about doing interviews does not make me stay awake. If you have to take someone who doesn't play or watch SC2 at least tell them that it's the first season of the NASL so that she doesn't ask people if it's their first time watching the NASL and tell her that races are played and not played with.
Then the repeated loooooong introduction vidoes for the players. I mean what the hell they lasted like 5 minutes a piece. Besides the choices of the clips didn't really highlight their tournament victories or defeats. They were picked at random. And please change up the background music between videos. Ten minutes of the cliche-choir-screamy-epic-orchestral music is too much.
And Eye of the Tiger as July's entrance music. Seriously? Though that kinda woke me up (and made me stay up laughing), so I'll give you points for that.
I'm glad you've noticed that it wasn't that great for stream viewers but really quite a big change is needed. Give us good, well thought out interviews with the players, maybe a bit of post-match analysis from the casters, some musical shows etc. And cut a few minutes out of the intros and don't repeat them.
But apart from the horrible waiting and sound issues the games were great. I enjoyed following the whole season. Thanks a lot!
|
On July 13 2011 00:38 sooch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 00:16 sc2guy wrote:On July 12 2011 22:27 ico wrote:Blaming players for delays and being ignorant towards feedback On July 12 2011 13:11 Xeris wrote:
If you are posting about it being a problem, we've already thought about it.
does not shine a better light on you. I really hope you listen to some more of the feedback you got and don't ignore it because you might not like to hear it. And adding the following: 1) http://www.sixjaxgaming.com/wp/scii/2011/03/08/20-questions-with-nasls-xeris/XERIS: I honestly think people are upset because people just look for things to complain about 2) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=234791¤tpage=5#81xeris: I acknowledge all the criticism, but I won't really do anything about it unless I get constructive criticism, which very few people do. Since day 1, you have been very defensive towards criticism. It feels like only the criticism acceptable by your standards are considered constructive. Have you ever thought that, it is also possible to accept good and bad criticism constructively? Completely agreed.
looks like xeris will never change... what a poor choice for public NASL representative.
|
i forgot about the interlacing! How do NASL not see the problems with the stream. I saw it 5 seconds after it went live!
|
On July 13 2011 00:54 TheResidentEvil wrote:
i forgot about the interlacing! How do people not see the problems with the stream. I saw it 5 minutes after it went live!
I didn't notice it in the whole 10 hours i watched the stream and the 2 hours i watched the VODs of the games i missed...
Well, maybe i'm just blind or the problem is less visible in 1080p.
|
On July 13 2011 00:20 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 00:14 AdamBanks wrote:On July 13 2011 00:10 Jibba wrote:On July 12 2011 23:14 Hammurabio wrote:Just so it is clear, here's what Xeris said about Strelok and his VISA in March: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203988¤tpage=207#4122As for NightEnd -- once again: Romania is a "high risk" country, as are Russia, Ukraine, and Poland (just because Romania is in the EU doesn't mean they have a VISA waiver program... which they don't, which makes it automatically more difficult to get a VISA to the US). We didn't want to have multiple "high risk" players in the league due to obvious reasons. What if more than 1 of them qualifies for the finals, can't get a VISA, and don't show up? That ruins our live event completely.
White-Ra has demonstrated an ability to come to the US, BRAT_OK showed us his VISA, as did Strelok. So we were really left with two players (MaNa and NightEnd) from "high risk" countries. We only wanted to select 1; we chose MaNa. As I said multiple times before -- I should have explicitly stated the need for a VISA. I mistakenly thought it was obvious that people outside the US would ask about it considering the contract states that you must guarantee your ability to enter the US. It was my fault for not explicitly stating that they needed a VISA. So my question for Xeris, how could you have seen Strelok's VISA when he hadn't even applied for it? Was Strelok or MaNa the one "high risk" player? Now that's interesting. o.o Correct me if im wrong but hasnt xeris alrdy explained this post? Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 01:11 Xeris wrote:On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote:
That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa? As we said at the start of the season, Strelok was the 'risk' player we accepted, because his team Mouz assured us that he could get a VISA on time. MaNa was the 'risk' player. They saw Strelok's VISA.
Wait, what? If they saw Strelok's VISA, then why didn't he come?
|
best finals ive ever seen! and the final game was amazing´
Keep up the good work.
Just make some fine tuning with your audio and schedule and vods little problems and its all set to be a perfect season 2!
|
On July 13 2011 00:58 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 00:54 TheResidentEvil wrote:
i forgot about the interlacing! How do people not see the problems with the stream. I saw it 5 minutes after it went live! I didn't notice it in the whole 10 hours i watched the stream and the 2 hours i watched the VODs of the games i missed... Well, maybe i'm just blind or the problem is less visible in 1080p.
well then you can be the next NASL video guy 
|
All in all I enjoyed the finals an hour in-between games isn't too bad i can get other things done rather than when its mlg or something i will sit in the chair for hours and hours >.<
Though I didn't follow much of the season which was played on-line. I find the format doesn't keep my interest, maybe its because I'm used to GSL and people going out in every round but generally there is something at stake all the time however in the nasl I only tuned in if there was a big match or if there is a player I really like to watch.
For me I'm going to see how the season 2 format is and which players are in before i consider buying a ticket.
thanks for all your hard work!
|
I'm not blaming players. I'm explaining that were a lot of reasons for delays that were actually pretty standard for many LAN events. And as I said, the only extra reason for delays was on the first day, when the players adjusted their settings after the intro videos. On Saturday they started doing it before the intros and it was better.
I'm confused as to what other delays you guys are referring to.
|
yea there were no other delays, people are overreacting.
Already have any news on casters and players for next season?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
