EPTAnyway, given the problems especially on the first day, it seems that everyone at NASL is listening to all the feedback and are acting accordingly so season two will be even better I'm sure.
NASL Finals Stuff - Page 12
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Demonaz
United Kingdom1219 Posts
Anyway, given the problems especially on the first day, it seems that everyone at NASL is listening to all the feedback and are acting accordingly so season two will be even better I'm sure. | ||
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MajorityofOne
Canada2506 Posts
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TheResidentEvil
United States991 Posts
MLG does modified double elim. You can lose all your pool play games and it will count as your first loss. | ||
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Kewlots
Australia534 Posts
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klops
United States674 Posts
make ro16 finals double elim #1 league-seed gets a bye (ret) open winner gets seeded into losers round 1 i'm really not familiar with what MLG uses for SC, i just tune in for the finals usually. edit - on another note, regarding the issue of marketing your event as a show as a reason for skimping out on non-live qualities... it would seem to me to be a very poor choice considering the stream viewing market VASTLY out numbers the live attendance. you'd do well to reevaluate your standpoints. we all get it that you want the gigantic finals that draws people from across the country to get the real experience (aka korea) but a reminder: this is the US, not the geographically small country of south korea. | ||
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aristarchus
United States652 Posts
On July 12 2011 23:14 Hammurabio wrote: Just so it is clear, here's what Xeris said about Strelok and his VISA in March: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203988¤tpage=207#4122 As for NightEnd -- once again: Romania is a "high risk" country, as are Russia, Ukraine, and Poland (just because Romania is in the EU doesn't mean they have a VISA waiver program... which they don't, which makes it automatically more difficult to get a VISA to the US). We didn't want to have multiple "high risk" players in the league due to obvious reasons. What if more than 1 of them qualifies for the finals, can't get a VISA, and don't show up? That ruins our live event completely. White-Ra has demonstrated an ability to come to the US, BRAT_OK showed us his VISA, as did Strelok. So we were really left with two players (MaNa and NightEnd) from "high risk" countries. We only wanted to select 1; we chose MaNa. As I said multiple times before -- I should have explicitly stated the need for a VISA. I mistakenly thought it was obvious that people outside the US would ask about it considering the contract states that you must guarantee your ability to enter the US. It was my fault for not explicitly stating that they needed a VISA. So my question for Xeris, how could you have seen Strelok's VISA when he hadn't even applied for it? Was Strelok or MaNa the one "high risk" player? This is the kind of stuff that's completely insane, and which NASL seems to do on a regular basis. For all the effort to make excuses, the public image of NASL is an impression that they're making excuses and just saying whatever they can to get through the current criticism. My first guess would be that Xeris just misremembered and said it was MaNa when it was really Strelok who didn't have a visa... But I think I remember MaNa saying in an interview after an NASL that he couldn't go to MLG because he couldn't get a visa, and everyone in the live report thread collectively smacking themselves in the forehead at the obvious problem this created for NASL. And I've seen this false statement about Strelok brought up in several threads, and it has (as far as I know) never been responded to. When the 480p stream quality magically became not free anymore, there was no statement. There were threads where 15 different people asked whether it was intentional, and Xeris posted to say other things, and deliberately avoided saying anything about it. Any time any rule or policy changes, there should be a clear news post on nasl.tv (and ideally a cross-post on TL). I shouldn't be surprised that only 4 people apparently qualified from the qualifier tournament, only to find that buried in the middle of the live report thread Xeris said they had reduced it to 4 because of potential format changes. When things go wrong, the response should not be to try to convince everyone it doesn't matter because you're trying hard. If people are criticizing you for something you don't think is bad, just don't post. If Gretorp isn't actually that bad, the people who like him will defend him. You don't have to. If consistently no one defends the thing you think is good, reconsider your opinion of it. If you agree that something was wrong (say, spoiling a game that's about to be played because stuff was edited in the wrong order...) then post to say "Yeah, our bad. We're aware of it, and working to fix it." If you want to explain what went wrong that caused the problem in more detail, that's ok, but you don't need to, and you should never expect that doing so somehow excuses the problem. No one is expecting everything to be perfect. People are used to GSL and MLG and Dreamhack and none of them get everything right. Sometimes there are technical difficulties, probably occasionally caused by someone kicking a power cord. Those troubles are not unique to NASL, and trying to hide behind them just makes you look oblivious. People aren't criticizing you for being imperfect. They're criticizing you for things falling short of standards they know are completely reasonable. | ||
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OCsurfeR
United States195 Posts
On July 12 2011 23:45 TheResidentEvil wrote: Really don't like the justification for single elimination. You can't compare to MLG saying its single because its not. Boxer flew to your tournament, played 1 series and was done. At MLG, Boxer will play at least 6 series. It is not a fair comparison. The open bracket is double elim also so you should just not even compare to MLG. MLG does modified double elim. You can lose all your pool play games and it will count as your first loss. Our format and MLG's format are very different. MLG is a modified tournament. NASL is a league. By the time we have reached the finals, we've already eliminated through regular season records and playoff games 35 of the 50 regular season players. The Finals for NASL is essentially the last echelons of the playoffs and the championship round. As with other professional sports, there is no double-elimination at this point. We recognize that the SC2 community is not used to this, and thus a lot of the criticism, but it's a model we're standing by and that we think is critical to the reception and growth of eSports outside of this immediate community. The natural response to this is "well if you're going for a normal pro-sports league style format, what about the open qualifier winner taking the 16th spot? That's not what other professional sports do." You're right, and that's something we're taking another hard look at. | ||
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Angry_Fetus
Canada444 Posts
This. The entire show was appalling watching Xeris pass the blame for all the problems onto other people, and coming off as completely unprofessional. Especially the PainUser incident. Sure, him showing up was his prerogative, but making a slander video (in which you personally acted like a complete asshole to PainUser) about it made me lose all respect for NASL. And how did they manage to have one of the microphones muted almost every time someone gave an interview in the finals? I hope for the sake of your investors, that you pick up the slack, and accept the blame. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On July 12 2011 23:52 OCsurfeR wrote: Our format and MLG's format are very different. MLG is a modified tournament. NASL is a league. By the time we have reached the finals, we've already eliminated through regular season records and playoff games 35 of the 50 regular season players. The Finals for NASL is essentially the last echelons of the playoffs and the championship round. As with other professional sports, there is no double-elimination at this point. We recognize that the SC2 community is not used to this, and thus a lot of the criticism, but it's a model we're standing by and that we think is critical to the reception and growth of eSports outside of this immediate community. The natural response to this is "well if you're going for a normal pro-sports league style format, what about the open qualifier winner taking the 16th spot? That's not what other professional sports do." You're right, and that's something we're taking another hard look at. I think people just don't understand because there was so much wasted time on stream that it seemed as if it wasn't needed. Single elim is fine but bo3 is a bit dodgy. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
On July 12 2011 22:47 Marsupian wrote: The tournament you mentioned was probably the Home Story Cup at Take's apartment. I agree that the downtime between games was a bit dull and showing the stream what is going on at the event would be a good move (just make us feel part of the whole event). Still you guys gave us Lindsey so it's all good <3. Next time maybe have the interviewer show more of the stuff that is happening in the background instead of just interviewing people hanging around the main area. Yeah Homestorycup, it was pretty awesome! Just like skii-ing and extreme sports, esports need an "image", a "lifestyle" where we are not just huge nerds sitting in cellars. A great example of this is the GSL parties in the USA, people getting togheter, drinking and having fun in the name of esports! It's a great thing that the NASL tries to further this, as they should and as all tournaments should, BUT I still stand with my first post about how damned stupid it was to not show the stream this effort... that just ruins it for us whilst 400 people got to take part in the event and we were left out. | ||
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aristarchus
United States652 Posts
On July 12 2011 23:52 OCsurfeR wrote: Our format and MLG's format are very different. MLG is a modified tournament. NASL is a league. By the time we have reached the finals, we've already eliminated through regular season records and playoff games 35 of the 50 regular season players. The Finals for NASL is essentially the last echelons of the playoffs and the championship round. As with other professional sports, there is no double-elimination at this point. We recognize that the SC2 community is not used to this, and thus a lot of the criticism, but it's a model we're standing by and that we think is critical to the reception and growth of eSports outside of this immediate community. The natural response to this is "well if you're going for a normal pro-sports league style format, what about the open qualifier winner taking the 16th spot? That's not what other professional sports do." You're right, and that's something we're taking another hard look at. I agree with this. I think this response from most viewers is largely a result of there being so much downtime that it seemed like there should really be more games. Expanding to Bo5 would do a lot for that. Also, while it was dumb to seed him 16th, the open tournament was really necessary to the legitimacy when everyone else was invite only, but I'm glad you're reconsidering it now. As the league becomes more full of people who qualified objectively, the need for the open tournament goes away. | ||
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251
United States1401 Posts
Having said that, I'm glad to see you guys making improvements and changes for paying customers. I would've liked all matches to be bo5 and think that'd be a great switch. | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
On July 12 2011 23:45 TheResidentEvil wrote: Really don't like the justification for single elimination. You can't compare to MLG saying its single because its not. Boxer flew to your tournament, played 1 series and was done. At MLG, Boxer will play at least 6 series. It is not a fair comparison. The open bracket is double elim also so you should just not even compare to MLG. MLG does modified double elim. You can lose all your pool play games and it will count as your first loss. Did the players complain about this though? Like on the flip side of it, you don't have to play like 10 series which double elimination can be and be exhausted by the end either. Personally as a player, with a big cash prize unless I was the absolute favorite like MC, I'd rather it just be single elimination. I'd rather try to put together 1 great series if I was boxer to knock MC out of the tournament for good, than maybe win but only knock him to the losers bracket just to have him come back later in the tournament and beat me. I'm always intrigued how people on this forum claim to know what the players want and think is "fair" yet the players only real comment seemed to be on the maps, and perhaps BO5 instead of 3 but not that they wanted double elimination. These guys play SC2 non-stop. I don't think they are upset because they flew a long way to play 1 series. They flew a long way to compete for $50,000. So would playing and losing 2 BO3's be better? At that point what does it really matter? They were also signing autographs, mingling with people, expanding their name and brand, enjoying the states, etc. And again, thinking of some of the players at these double elimination tournaments that end up having to play series after series after series in the losers bracket, I think some would say they'd prefer the single elimination win and just move on, lose and enjoy your weekend. Just trying to offer a flip point of view on it. | ||
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klops
United States674 Posts
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Triscuit
United States722 Posts
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TheResidentEvil
United States991 Posts
On July 12 2011 13:11 Xeris wrote: I'd like to say: Dreamhack playoffs are single elimination, MLG's playoffs are single elimination (except for the 4 winners of pool play), WCG playoffs are single elimination... etc. I am not saying NASL needs to change their format. I am more responding to XERIS justification by saying MLG is single elim when it isn't. NASL can do their tournament however they want but don't say MLG is single elim when it isn't. | ||
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Kuhva
United Kingdom183 Posts
But if you could schedule the finals so Europeans who work can watch them without going stupidly late (only very late  ) it would be much appreciated! Regarding Strelocks VISA I would guess he showed a previous VISA, as it next to impossible to get one without booking flights/accommodation and to be fair he did get one as early as he could from knowing he was going it was just 8 hours late. Final Tin Hat comment, the reason the put more effort in creating a show/better live experience that the steam (which had more viewers) were their were a couple of potential sponsors in the audience | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On July 12 2011 23:14 Hammurabio wrote: Just so it is clear, here's what Xeris said about Strelok and his VISA in March: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203988¤tpage=207#4122 As for NightEnd -- once again: Romania is a "high risk" country, as are Russia, Ukraine, and Poland (just because Romania is in the EU doesn't mean they have a VISA waiver program... which they don't, which makes it automatically more difficult to get a VISA to the US). We didn't want to have multiple "high risk" players in the league due to obvious reasons. What if more than 1 of them qualifies for the finals, can't get a VISA, and don't show up? That ruins our live event completely. White-Ra has demonstrated an ability to come to the US, BRAT_OK showed us his VISA, as did Strelok. So we were really left with two players (MaNa and NightEnd) from "high risk" countries. We only wanted to select 1; we chose MaNa. As I said multiple times before -- I should have explicitly stated the need for a VISA. I mistakenly thought it was obvious that people outside the US would ask about it considering the contract states that you must guarantee your ability to enter the US. It was my fault for not explicitly stating that they needed a VISA. So my question for Xeris, how could you have seen Strelok's VISA when he hadn't even applied for it? Was Strelok or MaNa the one "high risk" player? Now that's interesting. o.o | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
24 hour window to test and replace equipment, sleep etc just isnt enough, as you saw. either im misreading your meaning or you honestly dont see this as a problem for the season 2 finals. try and get into the building 48 hours earlier and test EVERYTHING days before you go live please  | ||
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