EPTI can't watch at Stream times. When they release lower quality VODs, I'll probably pick up another pass. However I paid $25 for a season I couldn't watch, so won't be doing that again.
Casting was ok. Not everyone is Day9/Tastosis.
[Poll] NASL Premium - Season 2 polls - Page 3
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
I can't watch at Stream times. When they release lower quality VODs, I'll probably pick up another pass. However I paid $25 for a season I couldn't watch, so won't be doing that again. Casting was ok. Not everyone is Day9/Tastosis. | ||
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reisada
183 Posts
On July 12 2011 08:18 Calasmere wrote: You're forgetting that a tournament doesn't entirely consist of the level of the players. Production matters a lot, casters matter a lot, the format of the play matters a lot. If a tournament had GSL level production and bronze players, I would not be interested. Weekly tournament production and unknown GM players, I would be semi-interested in. You can't have extremes in it, and as far as I'm concerned, the production and the format of the NASL are a huge extreme in shit for me, which is why I'm not interested in the fact that they have amazing players. at least FOR ME players quality is way more important than production quality. Now that you talk about it this was the only tournament that had 1080p+ stream video quality? thats what is the most important when talking about quality. The lag people talk about is on their end. I live in a country with bad internet half world away from nasl and got 1080p+ flawless | ||
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Calasmere
United Kingdom161 Posts
On July 12 2011 08:23 reisada wrote: at least FOR ME players quality is way more important than production quality. Now that you talk about it this was the only tournament that had 1080p+ stream video quality? thats what is the most important when talking about quality. The lag people talk about is on their end. I live in a country with bad internet half world away from nasl and got 1080p+ flawless Dreamhack has the same quality, as does Homestory and IEM. MLG isn't too far off. HD quality working on a stream on the internet isn't anything amazing at all, and it's pretty much a fucking regular standard requirement. But honestly, you accepting some of the shoddy production of the NASL and appreciating great players is just what you like. You don't need to say 'lol qq deal with it it has good players', because it all comes down to what people enjoy. Don't hate on those who don't have exactly the same tastes, likes and dislikes as you. | ||
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vanick
United States53 Posts
It started with the controversy over restricting non-NA players involvement in NASL, leading to the invitation of many lower tier players that I would not pay to watch. For a pre-taped broadcast, they did not do a good job of editing resulting in a show that had the problems of live, yet it wasn't. There were amateur production values (e.g. cutting off commentators with generic "gg" guitars and applying dodge/burn effect to the screen, poor graphic design, I could go on). The sound was awful, then improved but it was never "good"; the mix was always off and this continued right up through the finals. VODs, the website and streaming in general was all fairly annoying. Finally, and perhaps most crucially, the commentary. Much has been made about it so I'll just leave it as I'm not a fan. I will not be paying for S2. My support will be more directed toward GSL, MLG, and IGN which currently have higher production quality, a skill-based qualification system, and (generally..) better commentators. If NASL can fix its issues during S2 I will consider paying for S3, but commentary is a big deal for me and right now I don't see that being fixed in a meaningful way for S3. | ||
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Duravi
United States1205 Posts
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Chenz
Sweden1197 Posts
On July 12 2011 08:15 Calasmere wrote: You prove a good point. Although MLG didn't keel in and apologize till countless complaints were made. But like you say, NASL is not taking responsibility for complaints, and they're probably looking upon them as 'haters'. I mean, even in the sometimes unjustified unconstructive hatred of the typical pissed of netizen, there's pretty much always going to be some shred of truth in it, and it should actually be taken into consideration for NASL to progress. To be honest Sundance apologized live before MLG Dallas was even over, offering refunds while promising to improve until the next event. I doubt it could've been handled much better. My experience with NASL has pretty much been tuning in to the stream, cringing at the sound and closing the tab 5 minutes later. After watching 1 hour of the finals weekend day 1 and having seen 10 minutes of games, I decided to just skip it and watch the grand final. Come Monday at 2 am, I tune in only to see that the final had been moved, meaning I stayed up for nothing. On top of that, the NASL pass is ridiculously expensive compared to all other events. The US has a great regular tournament in IPL, I don't see any reason at all to even continue watching NASL. | ||
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BryanSC
United States455 Posts
Most suggestions made seem to be going over NASL's head. For the longest time, complaints were made over audio, and they still had issues both with their stream and their live event in the final weeks of the overall tournament. VOD quality for watching videos couldn't be changed. 1080p videos take forever to buffer for some people; sorry I'm not going to sit and wait half an hour for a video to buffer for a game that might have turned out to be mediocre. I'm not sure this is a Justintv issue (I believe it's not), but almost every single time there would be a big battle going on during a game the stream would lag. I've seen many different streams/tournaments where this issue doesn't come up, so something must be going on. Player selections, casters, etc. are largely subjective. However, I think the amount of players they had for Season 1 was too much and basically the season ended up having dead periods where the games wouldn't matter anymore. Yeah sometimes in certain divisions it did come down to the wire, but players that were under .500 by Week 5 had no shot anymore at the playoffs and just took up time. This may have been NASL's first run and I did expect a few hiccups but they still have not proved to me that they had a refined product at the end of Season 1, which is why I probably won't shell out another $25 for Season 2. | ||
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ElusoryX
Singapore2047 Posts
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Calasmere
United Kingdom161 Posts
On July 12 2011 08:26 vanick wrote: I paid for NASL S1 and was disappointed. SC2 is an amazing game and when you bring together the best players you can have some great entertainment. Unfortunately, everything surrounding the broadcast of those games (and to an extent the "best players" part) was bad. It started with the controversy over restricting non-NA players involvement in NASL, leading to the invitation of many lower tier players that I would not pay to watch. For a pre-taped broadcast, they did not do a good job of editing resulting in a show that had the problems of live, yet it wasn't. There were amateur production values (e.g. cutting off commentators with generic "gg" guitars and applying dodge/burn effect to the screen, poor graphic design, I could go on). The sound was awful, then improved but it was never "good"; the mix was always off and this continued right up through the finals. VODs, the website and streaming in general was all fairly annoying. Finally, and perhaps most crucially, the commentary. Much has been made about it so I'll just leave it as I'm not a fan. I will not be paying for S2. My support will be more directed toward IGN which currently has higher production quality, a skill-based qualification system, and (generally..) better commentators. If NASL can fix its issues during S2 I will consider paying for S3, but commentary is a big deal for me and right now I don't see that being fixed in a meaningful way for S3. About what you said with graphic design, I have no idea what the fuck they're doing. It's amazingly shoddy. Even the finals graphic designs were fuck ugly. It was the same in the Clash of the Titans too. The graphics were just fucking god awful. I can't iterate just how inexcusable this is given the fact that this is all pre-recorded and streamed later stuff. There is no excuse for it all, and as far as I'm concerned, whoever they hired as a graphics designer is not professional at all, given the stuff that is pushed out, and should be fired. | ||
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godemperor
Belgium2043 Posts
On July 12 2011 08:23 reisada wrote: at least FOR ME players quality is way more important than production quality. Now that you talk about it this was the only tournament that had 1080p+ stream video quality? thats what is the most important when talking about quality. The lag people talk about is on their end. I live in a country with bad internet half world away from nasl and got 1080p+ flawless Well most of the NASL regular season games were not good and tbh i dont need 1080p to enjoy a tournament, 480p is good enough. That's while i watch the GSL, for the best games in the world even though the stream quality is bit lower. (its somewhere between 720p and 480p) | ||
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Executor1
1353 Posts
In comparison to a similair league like IPL the production value and the casting is just much better than NASL and although i think i like the player list a little more in NASL the rest of the problems still leave me wanting to avoid it. | ||
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hakureiken
United States10 Posts
Many of the early season criticism had merit (only uploading 1080p vods, stream lag) but it greatly improved as the season moved forward. I liked the fact that NASL was willing to listen to the community. It seemed like feedback and remedies on our issues and complaints were present consistently throughout the season. Problems were acknowledged and were fixed. I plan on buying the season two pass once again. I saw positive, forward progression in the NASL-- t'was grand ^^. edit: <3 Gretorp-- he's a cute caster =D | ||
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Mairu
United States222 Posts
On July 12 2011 07:52 Derez wrote: I bought season 1, but I will not be buying season 2. My reasons: - The premium pass adds very little as it is at the moment. What I want and expect is a proper VOD system, and it just isn't there. The justin.tv stuff is a complete and utter mess, and so userunfriendly that over the course of the NASL I have watched maybe a VOD and a half. I've found out I can pretty much watch the matches I want to see on the broadcast/rebroadcast, and that most of the time I can't even be bothered to log in to switch to a higher resolution. - The second real reason why I bought it was to watch the finals in decent quality, but it turns out I bought it too early. If I waited with buying I would have saved 15 USD, and while I understand why the NASL offers the passes cheaper end of season, part of me felt screwed over by the price reduction. I feel that the NASL should have refunded the people that paid full price, or offer a serious discount on s2 for those that bought s1. It's only logical to reward your most loyal customers. - I strongly disagree with the delayed 'live' casting. If you're going to delay casts for production etc, I'm fine with that, but I feel that you could just as easily cast from replays then. This would be more convenient for the players and would allow for smoother production/casting. The NASL has been riddled with spoiled matched (by the casters), because they don't record in the same order they are aired, and I feel this ruins the overall 'narrative' of a night. Any league should be aiming to create a story, and answer questions like 'what happens if player X wins?'. The terrible terrible casting format has not allowed them to do anything of the sort, and a night of NASL feels like it's randomly cut and pasted together. Overall production needs to improve dramatically for me to pay for it again. - The regular season feels meaningless. It's too many games spread over too many nights, and too many games are utterly mediocre. There are too few high end matchups in the regular season, too many lopsided games, and too many players I honestly don't give a shit about because they're not exactly up there in terms of skill. - Justin.tv is a terrible partner for a league like this. Justin is just poor in europe, and does not offer the options required for a league like this. Lower resolution VOD's are a prime example of this, and while it's been promised for quite a while, it should have been in place from the get go. - The NASL representatives are generally dismissive of what are very real problems, and it makes me feel like I'm not valued as a customer. MLG has had its screw-ups, but realizing that, apologizing for it and promising to do better goes a long way. I'm willing to pay to support a new league to some extent, but not when the main spokespeople keep hyping it like everything is working out fine. Take your feedback seriously, respond to it in a professional manner and don't dismiss it offhand. It's true that the NASL has gotten quite some unfair criticism, but a lot of the criticism has been quite fair and constructive, yet it gets treated as an attack on the NASL by their spokespeople. We all want this league to be awesome, and we all want to be taken seriously. That said, if they offer the finals again at a discount rate (say 10 USD), I would buy that, simply because any 3 day tournament with 50k on the line is too exciting to miss out on. I agree with a lot of this. I paid for season one and will not be paying for season 2, aside from maybe paying for a pass for the finals weekend if it ends up being $10 like I think it was this past season. The VOD system being extremely poor is a complaint that bears being repeated over and over and over. I realize NASL doesn't have the technical staff to develop a real VOD system comparable to GOMTV's but the existing justin.tv system is extremely poor. The VODs themselves are huge videos with random split ups in them on a page where other people can comment and spoil the matches for you. I personally ended up watching less and less of the divisional play as the season went on and the VOD system didn't really make me want to bother catching up. Audio issues were rampant throughout the entirety of the NASL season, going from the beginning of divisional play up until the grand finals weekend. I don't know if they just dislike game music, but the game music was turned off very often and the game sounds were always at a poor volume relative to the commentary. While the player pool is pretty exciting for season 2, I don't know how much of it I will watch up until the finals weekend. I just don't think the format is that great for spectators. | ||
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skrzmark
United States1528 Posts
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Syben
United States512 Posts
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reisada
183 Posts
On July 12 2011 08:30 godemperor wrote: Well most of the NASL regular season games were not good and tbh i dont need 1080p to enjoy a tournament, 480p is good enough. That's while i watch the GSL, for the best games in the world even though the stream quality is bit lower. (its somewhere between 720p and 480p) mm really gsl is REALLY not having the best games in the world. REALLY | ||
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StimedSheep
United States51 Posts
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Nexic
United States729 Posts
On July 12 2011 08:22 IMABUNNEH wrote: Justin.tv issue, they fixed it quite awhile back. You can watch vods in various quality now.I paid money so I could access VODs, only to find out that I couldn't watch the VODs (ONLY in 1080p? Really?) I can't watch at Stream times. When they release lower quality VODs, I'll probably pick up another pass. However I paid $25 for a season I couldn't watch, so won't be doing that again. Casting was ok. Not everyone is Day9/Tastosis. | ||
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BryanSC
United States455 Posts
On July 12 2011 08:37 reisada wrote: mm really gsl is REALLY not having the best games in the world. REALLY The finals have been REALLY bad, if that's what you REALLY mean. | ||
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reisada
183 Posts
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