This isn't going to turn into another LoL vs (all other games apparently) thread. You can speak your mind about the selection of games but keep it civil.
On June 28 2011 14:55 50mineral wrote: its disgraceful. as the term "esports" would make one assume some skill involved in the games i think it would have make sense to have 1 RTS, 1 1v1 fast-FPS and 1 tactical team FPS. what ESL trying to do is pulling a kindergarden under the term e-sports with replacing quake with lol
What's disgraceful is this kind of attitude.
E-sports is happening right now. Who cares if its Starcraft, Warcraft, Minecraft or Angry Birds.
For the first time in human history, nerds are able to show up in force and get paid to do the things that we love to do.
You guys are fucking elitist bigots saying that any game doesn't deserve to be on a big stage. Every game deserves to be on a big stage, and your cheating yourself and the entire industry if you argue to the contrary.
You talk about disgraceful attitude....yet you go into calling (I'm quoting here) " fucking elitist bigots" to the posters that are EXPRESSING their dislike for a certain game and giving a reason (wether right or wrong) behind it. Not everyone agrees in decissions like this one, and because they don't agree with you it gives you the right to insult them? Being able to express their respectful opinions and tastes about anything is part of the SMART human behavior that makes up good communities, not going into nerd-raging spress insulting the people you disagree with.
I personally don't like this change, and much like everyone else that posted the same here, is because Quake represented itself since the start as a real E-sport, one of the founders in fact. Replacing it for a game that doesn't have a balanced, skill based (personal opinion) foundation just because the company that makes the game is pouring money to promote it is (in my opinion) wrong, and sad.
Now, according to you, this gives you the right to insult other posters? because we are giving a very personal opinion with reasons behind on WHY we dislike this change? Most of the posters here were very mature and explained why they dislike this, yet you somehow managed to get incredibly angry about that? I don't get it, this is the reason there are discussion forums in the first place.
On June 30 2011 12:32 how2TL wrote: Honestly, when WCG switched from BW to SC2 didn't this exact same argument happen?
Yes, this whole thread its just ol regular nerd rage.
Come on guys, I just finished reading this thread. Its ok not to like LoL but the decision is understandable and nerd raging is only going to make the community look as raging morons. God I wish I hadn´t read all of that
So I have not read this thread in its 32 page entirety. But I assume there is a lot of rage about replacing QL with LoL, and I am just curious how anyone can disagree with this statement, when the final of Quaklive at .. cant even remember what last event had QL,was it dream hack? had like 5k viewers. and Lol is between 100k and 200k. Anyone who would not make the decision to sack QL For LoL in that decision has no business running any organisation trying to forward esports, as they would only be standing in its way.
"You talk about disgraceful attitude....yet you go into calling (I'm quoting here) " fucking elitist bigots" to the posters that are EXPRESSING their dislike for a certain game and giving a reason (wether right or wrong) behind it. Not everyone agrees in decissions like this one, and because they don't agree with you it gives you the right to insult them? Being able to express their respectful opinions and tastes about anything is part of the SMART human behavior that makes up good communities, not going into nerd-raging spress insulting the people you disagree with."
He is not expressing his personal dislike for a certain game. He is in fact being an elitist bigot, saying that it is disgraceful what they are doing. If he had said something like "I realize this is the correct decision, even though I personally dislike League of Legends obviously it has somewhere around 20-30 times more viewership potential than Quake Live, so doing anything but this would be foolish and be a hindrance towards the growth of e-sports."
Its hard to bring up lack of payment publically. It is a last resort. I was unaware of huks case, and I assume the koreans are in the same mindset. I might talk to squirtle and ace on saturday to see.
Perhaps a court of law is better than a court of public opinion. Especially since I have them saying it will be no longer than 3 months for payment, in email.
Its unacceptable for a payment to be released more than a month after the tournament ends.. If I were to delay payment like this, I would happily quit all my jobs and go work at mcdonalds. Because my reputation would be in tatters.
I will see if any other gamers have the same problem. And maybe we can do a joint write up.
On June 29 2011 15:30 FXOpen wrote: Shouldn't the players from the last IEM be paid before you announce a new one? Moonglade is still waiting for his prize money...
edit: I wouldnt usually post this information, but after trying to do it privately, there has be little/no response that would suffice to a reasoning behind the prize money delay.
well, i thought it is known that the esl takes a few months, up to a year for paying prizemoney, but they do pay at least, even without bugging them
Its unacceptable from a professional point of view. You shouldn't run tournaments if the prize money isnt unavailable ./end rant
I also think ESL had trouble paying IdrA for a BW tournament way back when if I remember correctly... pretty badly run if you ask me.
On June 30 2011 14:05 FXOpen wrote: Its hard to bring up lack of payment publically. It is a last resort. I was unaware of huks case, and I assume the koreans are in the same mindset. I might talk to squirtle and ace on saturday to see.
Perhaps a court of law is better than a court of public opinion. Especially since I have them saying it will be no longer than 3 months for payment, in email.
Its unacceptable for a payment to be released more than a month after the tournament ends.. If I were to delay payment like this, I would happily quit all my jobs and go work at mcdonalds. Because my reputation would be in tatters.
I will see if any other gamers have the same problem. And maybe we can do a joint write up.
Its unfortunate that this needs to be done publicly, but it really is starting to look like a pattern emerging judging by all the posts here.
I just can't understand why it should ever be an issue-- tourneys are made or broken by reputation, and you'd think something like paying out prize money, which is a pretty fundamental reason why people attend these in the first place, would be a priority.
*sniffs air*
*looks to the horizon*
*checks direction of the wind*
yarr it seems though there be a shitstorm brewin'... ya'd best batten down the hatches and take cover lads.
On June 29 2011 15:30 FXOpen wrote: Shouldn't the players from the last IEM be paid before you announce a new one? Moonglade is still waiting for his prize money...
edit: I wouldnt usually post this information, but after trying to do it privately, there has be little/no response that would suffice to a reasoning behind the prize money delay.
well, i thought it is known that the esl takes a few months, up to a year for paying prizemoney, but they do pay at least, even without bugging them
Its unacceptable from a professional point of view. You shouldn't run tournaments if the prize money isnt unavailable ./end rant
I also think ESL had trouble paying IdrA for a BW tournament way back when if I remember correctly... pretty badly run if you ask me.
i still havnt been paid for the gamescon from last year, or new york
wow they still haven't paid you I would take them to court if I were you.
Carmac addressed that on Live on Three already. He said that gamescon and new york were paid out already and rapha confirmed that he had received payment for those tournaments; so there was probably a mixup somewhere for Huk's money and he told Huk to email him. He also said that idra was paid for his sc1 win after asking about it at the recent homestory.
About LoL and jukes... LoL definitely has potential, hopefully the top scene will increase in skill (atm biggest problem in my opinion is that the "top scene" isnt that good). No one is even near reaching the "skill-cap" of the game. Anyone of you who's like "hey thats easy shit rofl" is sadly mistaken. LoL is really more comparable to football than lots of other "esports". It's about picks, positionning, knowledge of what you / others can do. And a bit of quake because you HAVE to know the timing on your and your opponents blue/red buff, dragon and baron spawn, and everybody's ultimates. (And various "jungle timings" in the beginning, for ganks and counterjungling). I am a HUGE fan of quake and have been watching competitive quake III since its beginning and no words can describe my sadness at it being removed from every event. However, I happen to love MOBAs too, (played tons of DotA allstars in dotapickup). LoL has big problems, it's obvious and nobody is denying that. But HoN has too, and same goes for DotA (Nostalgia is a lying bitch).
But everybody should give LoL a chance. If you know what's going on it's actually very enjoyable to watch (and gets more enjoyable when you get to know the players, think about it, would you enjoy watching esports that much if everybody was unknown to you ?) and the viewer numbers prove it.
More to the point, if I may say so, your bitching isn't going to change anything except make you look stupidly elitist. I'm also fairly sure most of the people crying about the game either didn't play it or played it a little / casually and don't understand most of what is involved in "competitive" play.
TL;DR : No quake = sad panda ; LoL ain't that bad.
I'll admit that video was neat but I didn't see any of that in the two games i watched. One being in the finals and the other in the semi-finals and from experience playing the game it happens in 1 out of 100 games. I never watched a pro HoN or DotA game but from playing experience jukes would happen all the time.
About LoL and jukes... LoL definitely has potential, hopefully the top scene will increase in skill (atm biggest problem in my opinion is that the "top scene" isnt that good). No one is even near reaching the "skill-cap" of the game. Anyone of you who's like "hey thats easy shit rofl" is sadly mistaken. LoL is really more comparable to football than lots of other "esports". It's about picks, positionning, knowledge of what you / others can do. And a bit of quake because you HAVE to know the timing on your and your opponents blue/red buff, dragon and baron spawn, and everybody's ultimates. (And various "jungle timings" in the beginning, for ganks and counterjungling). I am a HUGE fan of quake and have been watching competitive quake III since its beginning and no words can describe my sadness at it being removed from every event. However, I happen to love MOBAs too, (played tons of DotA allstars in dotapickup). LoL has big problems, it's obvious and nobody is denying that. But HoN has too, and same goes for DotA (Nostalgia is a lying bitch).
But everybody should give LoL a chance. If you know what's going on it's actually very enjoyable to watch (and gets more enjoyable when you get to know the players, think about it, would you enjoy watching esports that much if everybody was unknown to you ?) and the viewer numbers prove it.
More to the point, if I may say so, your bitching isn't going to change anything except make you look stupidly elitist. I'm also fairly sure most of the people crying about the game either didn't play it or played it a little / casually and don't understand most of what is involved in "competitive" play.
TL;DR : No quake = sad panda ; LoL ain't that bad.
I'll admit that video was neat but I didn't see any of that in the two games i watched. One being in the finals and the other in the semi-finals and from experience playing the game it happens in 1 out of 100 games. I never watched a pro HoN or DotA game but from playing experience jukes would happen all the time.
You're correct, Fog of War in DOTA/HoN is very, very detailed, so even moving 1 pixel left or right will shift what you can and can't see (exaggerating ofc).
LoL counters the lack of a FoW (outside of a line of sight "circle" they call FoW) is to plant bushes in strategic locations around the map. Basically, once you're inside it, you can see outside but they can't see you.
Personally I don't like bushes, they feel like a last-minute "ohshitwedonthavefog" replacement....and I've been playing since day 1 of release.
On June 27 2011 23:24 MartinN wrote: five different continents...mm
europe asia north america south america Oceania ?
Antarctica *
And as far as League of Legends goes, I personally think that there are better games to have at such a high level of competition. I've played DotA, HoN, and LoL, and personally I think that LoL just doesn't require the same amount of skill to play. It's a fun game, but when you're playing for this much money the skill required for League of Legends is not even comparable to games like StarCraft, Counter Strike, or Quake.
We did a really nice and long interview with Head of ESL IEM Michal "Carmac" Blicharz today, covering all aspects of the new season including LoL, QL, CS, SC2, and other games.
On June 30 2011 12:32 how2TL wrote: Honestly, when WCG switched from BW to SC2 didn't this exact same argument happen?
Yes, this whole thread its just ol regular nerd rage.
Come on guys, I just finished reading this thread. Its ok not to like LoL but the decision is understandable and nerd raging is only going to make the community look as raging morons. God I wish I hadn´t read all of that
WCG replacing BW with SC2 was a different situation then the one between LoL and Quake. BW was replaced at WCG really for two reasons. First off the latest WCG was being held in Korea. At the time the exclusive right to all televised Blizzard games was held by GomTV. This prevented them from airing the content. They tried to work things out with GomTV and I forget what the final decision was but they ended up dropping BW because of it. This didn't prevent them from bringing it back though at a later event outside of Korea. In the end they thought, why have a game that only Koreans play in a tournament that is about country vs country? It's like having American football in the Olympics. So they brought in SC2 which is played in all countries.
LoL replacing Quake on the other hand was a decision based on being able to draw way more viewers. In the end I'm sure everyone understands that. There was a time though when E-sports wasn't profitable and it was all about people who were passionate about video games getting together to see who was the best. I believe people would have been angry that Quake got replace no matter which game it was that replaced it. But I think more people are angry because it was replaced by a game that isn't the pinnacle of it's genre.
LoL is a game that was purposely catered to the casuals. Or in a less polite terms, dumbed down. It was purposely done so by the developer so that it could be fun and competitive for anyone to play. They accomplished that task and that's probably why it's so popular. Their community is also a lot better then the HoN's which was by far the worst I had ever seen. Honestly though I'm happy LoL that they were able to create a game like that. I think the problem most people had is that it is replacing games that try to be as competitive as possible. When I look at that it that way it doesn't feel like an e-sport it feels like a novelty.
On June 29 2011 15:30 FXOpen wrote: Shouldn't the players from the last IEM be paid before you announce a new one? Moonglade is still waiting for his prize money...
edit: I wouldnt usually post this information, but after trying to do it privately, there has be little/no response that would suffice to a reasoning behind the prize money delay.
well, i thought it is known that the esl takes a few months, up to a year for paying prizemoney, but they do pay at least, even without bugging them
Its unacceptable from a professional point of view. You shouldn't run tournaments if the prize money isnt unavailable ./end rant
I also think ESL had trouble paying IdrA for a BW tournament way back when if I remember correctly... pretty badly run if you ask me.
i still havnt been paid for the gamescon from last year, or new york
wow they still haven't paid you I would take them to court if I were you.
Carmac addressed that on Live on Three already. He said that gamescon and new york were paid out already and rapha confirmed that he had received payment for those tournaments; so there was probably a mixup somewhere for Huk's money and he told Huk to email him. He also said that idra was paid for his sc1 win after asking about it at the recent homestory.
SC1 win? When was that? Whenever it was, its a pretty terrible sign if it took them that long to pay him and that he also had to sak for it.
Even if they eventually do pay out its really bad if you have to ask for it. Yea some people will mention "this guy emailed them and evntually got his payment", but how many people did not email? How many people just couldnt be arsed do keep asking for it or gave up on ever getting their payment? Seems like it could be quite a few.
Though we likely wont see it happening, it seems like some legal actions really would need to be taken. Its not like this is a new thing anyway, afaik ESL has been known for this for at least a few years.
wow...i play league of legends quite a bit with friends when im not playing starcraft but really? replacing QL with LoL? I dont get how people can watch that game and be intrested. I would much rather watch QL and i dont even play it
What a hate here against LoL. Sorry to say but during Dreamhack I enjoyed watching LoL more than I enjoyed watching SC2. On top of that, I enjoy playing it more too. Futhermore, Quack Live is past its glory, just face it.
EPT
