• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:52
CEST 04:52
KST 11:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27
Community News
Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer2Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2
StarCraft 2
General
Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey. Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 34260 users

ESL announces Extreme Masters VI (IEM) - Page 33

Forum Index > SC2 General
661 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 31 32 33 34 Next All
This isn't going to turn into another LoL vs (all other games apparently) thread. You can speak your mind about the selection of games but keep it civil.
Tomken
Profile Joined January 2010
Norway1144 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-01 16:05:09
July 01 2011 15:49 GMT
#641
EMS Playoff with fnatic (DH winner) & SK for LoL had 2k viewers, where is the 150k missing viewers...... -_-
MBCGame HERO FIGHTING!!!~
KoTakUEurO
Profile Joined May 2011
605 Posts
July 01 2011 16:08 GMT
#642
Nothing wrong with LoL, you may not like it but it will undoubtebly continue to stimulate the growth of eSports.
LoL is really the only choice for a NEW competitive MOBA - HoN isn't working, Demigod is relatively weak competively, and LoL has a huge fanbase and ridiculous results for the DreamHack streams. Maybe DoTA 2 will replace it at release, but LoL is a great choice for now.
It's a new game, give it a chance. New games are always imbalanced at first, and new MOBAs are releasing new characters every week or two, so imbalance is expected.
And QL has been slowly dying off anyway, so I'm excited to see what becomes of LoL in the near future.
morbvs
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany358 Posts
July 01 2011 16:33 GMT
#643
On June 27 2011 23:38 th3_great wrote:
edit: you also have to remember that the prize pool at dreamhack for LoL was $100,000, and thats dollars, not euros. thats still divided among the highest ranking teams and the players, but its still a lot of money that should'nt be taken lightly


I bet they hoped it had been Euros not Dollar: 1 euro = 1,45 USD.
You ment SEK (Swedish Kronor), that's what they actually payed the price money in at dreamhack.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.
Mr.Brightside
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia317 Posts
July 02 2011 10:20 GMT
#644
On June 30 2011 03:10 Mr.Brightside wrote:
GODDAMNIT. Now they announce that there will be an IEM tournament at GamesCon!? Like a couple of weeks after I booked going somewhere else and I was seriously thinking of going to that too. Probably my only chance to see some of the top players in the world in person gone since I go back to Australia from Germany in like 3 months and as if they will ever have a tournament there.


Well now I'm not really that upset about missing IEM. For a few reasons which a lot of people have been over but I want to express them anyway.

First of all, I was a Quake 3/Live player, Brood War, DotA and HoN player (and now only really play SC2 due to time restrictions and it being a pretty awesome game) but never a LoL player (but I have touched on it and understand how it works).

I see this decision from ESL as just being a matter of business. Business that I do not like but unfortunately that's the way it is. I think this is sort of similar to the BW being replaced by SC2 for WCG decision (although that was more influenced by law than anything I think). I would still argue that the skill level of the top BW pros is above (and it was even further above when WCG was changed) that of the top SC2 pros, I think anyone who has played or even watched both games understands that and I feel that it is the same case with QL players being far more skilled than LoL players although people will argue about it being a completely different genre, if you have duelled against a top player in Quake you will know exactly what I'm talking about, I think the first time I duelled against a top Australian player I lost 42-0. That's in 10 minutes, getting fragged about once every 15 seconds, and I didn't even think I was THAT bad. I will also add that out of DotA, HoN and LoL I think LoL has the lowest skill level required to at least perform decently so it disappoints me that this is the game out of those 3 that has been chosen.

The reason why it was chosen though was because it is easier, it's F2P, far easier to learn and play well without getting crushed and being called a fucking scrub and other obscenities (which of course almost everyone experienced if you didn't start playing DotA early on which was the case with me) and I guess has a lot more pretty colourful pictures and sparkly things. It definately is more eye-catching. Which for most simians, whether on a computer or infront of a TV or just sitting in a park scratching your ass, certainly makes things more interesting. Quake, although being F2P now, lacks any of these things that makes it appealing to anyone new or just wishing to be entertained, unless you have played the game, it is difficult to appreciate the jaw-dropping skill of someone hitting 5 rails or slamming air rockets down a guy's throat when he came millimetres to the megahealth. Quake is also almost impossible for anyone new to play and enjoy or rather own at (I only tried to play it competitively for about 8 months, though I played it on and off for years and all I did was progress above anyone else that was new and get crushed by everyone else).

The only hope I have is that events such as ESL do not degrade into the absolute trash that is considered part of esports in events at WCG with ridiculous games on mobile phones and such. I will not say LoL is a step towards this as it is still a very legitimate esport but it certainly is sacrificing skill for something else.

Another reason why I have no interest in going to IEM is the issue that has been mentioned in this thread by FXO and TL members of players not being paid within the time stated by ESL. I can understand if there is a delay but to not pay for longer than what they stated would be considered criminal with many other professions and would cause the downfall of the company doing so. How would you feel if you were asked to work for no pay for an indefinate amount of time? You can argue that what these players are doing is not a job and is enjoyable, which is true or else they wouldn't be good at it but imagine if some of these players were not sponsored or perhaps lost sponsorship after the tournament because their contract ended or something, they would be left in an uncertain deadzone where they are not getting paid for what they professionally do and that is in my opinion quite a stressful situation to be in and can have negative effects on other aspects of that person's life. Also, how the hell does this support esports? These players go home to Korea or NA and tell the other players, "yeah it's nice to travel over there if you don't like to get paid for playing well". I wonder if a caster like RotterdaM, a former WC3 pro, would work for ESL if they told him he wasn't going to be paid until who knows when or all of the people that set up the event for example.

It is unbelievable for all of the people that work towards making the event possible get paid (so they should they do a pretty good job, thanks) while the people that are the main attraction, the reason why people come to the event, don't get paid for doing their best.

Anyway, TLDR: Q3 > LoL skillwise but not in terms of entertainment or appeal to a majority of the public (which is sad for me but I'm sure fine for others).
ESL not paying players which make these events possible and possibly stunting the growth of esports rather than helping it.

"Makin' Pylons, Makin' Probes, Fightin' Round The World" - Russell Crowe
Evangelist
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
1246 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-02 10:33:57
July 02 2011 10:33 GMT
#645
I'm not sure there's a difference between the skill level in WoW arena and the skill level in LoL. I'd say WoW arena is probably more complicated and requires more skill than LoL.

Posted earlier in this thread, but I played some LoL and as fun as it is, it just isn't.. well... esports. It's also really boring to watch - if they must have a hero based esports game, why not just play the original and best, Warcraft 3?
Adventurekid
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Sweden505 Posts
July 02 2011 10:41 GMT
#646
Really looking forward to watch this tournament. Good for LoL that it's been doing so well in esports lately.
You should build a turtle fence!
Tomken
Profile Joined January 2010
Norway1144 Posts
July 02 2011 10:42 GMT
#647
On July 02 2011 19:20 Mr.Brightside wrote:
Anyway, TLDR: Q3 > LoL skillwise but not in terms of entertainment.


WTF is so entertainment with LoL when you just sit there and wait for 25min mark before something starts to happen? First 15min it's rarely anything happens, maybe 1-2 kills.
MBCGame HERO FIGHTING!!!~
TheMag
Profile Joined April 2011
Romania43 Posts
July 02 2011 18:36 GMT
#648
quake is dead R.I.P
up up
nemahsys
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada457 Posts
July 02 2011 20:12 GMT
#649
On June 27 2011 23:20 GTR wrote:
what a travesty that quake live was shafted for league of legends.

i guess riot are pouring the money in for the game to be a major ESPORTS title.



well when the can pull in over 200k viewers for their stream can you really blame ESL for picking them up over quake?
DJ Wheat, if you read this, plz get Lo3 back on itunes stat!
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
July 03 2011 16:31 GMT
#650
On July 02 2011 19:42 Tomken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2011 19:20 Mr.Brightside wrote:
Anyway, TLDR: Q3 > LoL skillwise but not in terms of entertainment.


WTF is so entertainment with LoL when you just sit there and wait for 25min mark before something starts to happen? First 15min it's rarely anything happens, maybe 1-2 kills.


yea, I have no clue about Q3, i just used to play it very very casually against AI, but watching it at IEM cologne last year was really fun. I have played LoL just a few times but watching it just seems super boring to me.
I'll still happily be going to cologne though since I'm in for SC2 anyways.
beep boop
NeWeNiyaLord
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Norway2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-03 16:32:55
July 03 2011 16:32 GMT
#651
Hype hype! awesome tourney!
This is where we begin. Show your true self, Battosai.
StorM__
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany118 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-03 16:42:24
July 03 2011 16:40 GMT
#652
Even though i play lol myself its super boring to watch.
Quake Live is exciting without me playing the game.
Well LoL has a massive fanbase so its probably way better for ESL to stream Lol instead of QL
LeLeech
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom211 Posts
July 03 2011 23:36 GMT
#653
On July 02 2011 01:08 KoTakUEurO wrote:
Nothing wrong with LoL, you may not like it but it will undoubtebly continue to stimulate the growth of eSports.
=


No pause ability. So when a player d/c you have to remake. Typically before 5 minutes. And without Lan this will be a issue for every tournament. Stimulate esports?

No replays. Lol well you better like the same casters, or view without game sounds.

Free teleports to base.

Abilities that cost zero resource. No risk to spam.

Poor graphic engine. Feels like one step above warcraft 3, but two steps behind HoN. One step forward, two steps back.

Just a few issues I found upon taking up the game. This is what is acceptable as a game of esports now a days? Ya-ya graphics arnt a big deal but what about these other glaring issues?

I enjoy LoL for a good casual game with my casual gaming buddies. But an eSport? Be serious.



LoL stream: ~190k viewers. SC2 stream: ~85k viewers. Really Blizzard?
BushidoSnipr
Profile Joined November 2010
United States910 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-03 23:41:17
July 03 2011 23:39 GMT
#654
LoL is definitely not e-sport quality. And im not sure subbing an FPS for an "RTS" isn't really fair to the competitive FPS scene. Maybe they could put TF2 in there, that'd be fucking glorious

Edit-Doh, just realized CS 1.6 is there. I guess my comment still stands but on a much smaller scale. Quake was also the very first esport, so it's surprising that they removed it.
tomaladisto
Profile Joined September 2010
Portugal3 Posts
July 04 2011 16:01 GMT
#655
On July 04 2011 08:39 BushidoSnipr wrote:
LoL is definitely not e-sport quality. And im not sure subbing an FPS for an "RTS" isn't really fair to the competitive FPS scene. Maybe they could put TF2 in there, that'd be fucking glorious

Edit-Doh, just realized CS 1.6 is there. I guess my comment still stands but on a much smaller scale. Quake was also the very first esport, so it's surprising that they removed it.


You gotta be kidding me. You complain about LoL and then "ask" for TF2...
chu12ch
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-04 18:18:08
July 04 2011 18:00 GMT
#656
It's really hard for people to judge this game when they have less than 300 wins.

Because of their hidden ranking system it will only match you up against people of similar rating. And even when you do start playing ranked games you have to have a win loss spread of around 50 games before getting close to 'Diamond' level play.

For those here who are judging it after playing less than 200 games is like someone watching a SC2 game of Bronze/Silver level players playing.

Still it's sad that a staple of esports is gone.

(Former top 200 player)
xarthaz
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1704 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 08:12:00
July 05 2011 08:05 GMT
#657
The bottom line is LoL is the most popular Western Esport of all time, its that simple. The 210 000 viewers was world record for any western esports event. as such, it must be cherished, and honored. in fact i will shortly proceed to have a glorious match of lol myself. the new free champion week is about to start, let us enjoy it, fellow summoners!
On June 28 2011 06:10 danl9rm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2011 23:20 GTR wrote:
what a travesty that quake live was shafted for league of legends.

i guess riot are pouring the money in for the game to be a major ESPORTS title.


As someone who has played both, LoL is a joke of a game compared to QuakeLive.
The game caters to noobs in every way conceivable.

I was about to hit "post," but I will instead elaborate.

From Dota -> League of Legends:
Problem: meanie-head denies all my creeps leaving me way behind Fix: No more denying creeps! You can now sit there like the noob you are and get full exp!
Problem: I have to use the mini-map. Fix: You are now panned so far out you can see everything w/o it!
Problem: I sometimes run out of mana. Fix: Spells now take next to no mana with insane mana regneration!
Problem: Sometimes when I'm playing someone better than me, they combo me to death. Fix: It is now impossible to combo someone down from full health. Spells will do insignificant damage and they will have to cast a dozen of them on you to kill you. At 40% health, please retreat to base for healing.
Problem: It seems no matter who I pick, my opponent can still beat me. Fix: Some characters are now drastically overpowered compared to others so you'll always have a chance against someone actually wanting to pick a different character!
Problem: When I get low on health, people sometimes kill me. Fix: Now, when you get low on health, just leisurely walk back under the tower (with extended range!) and it will totally obliterate anyone who dare follow you! Now you can lane and shoot at creeps all day long!

Yes, I hate that game. And if I had played it more recently, I'm sure I could point out 100 more things that they purposely put into that game, that dota had right, just to make it for noobs.
UGH.

Sorry Quakelive

Funny you used that line. When you could similarly wreck Quake live as being the noob friendly dumbed down nerfed down version of older quake games.
Aah thats the stuff..
Disquiet
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia628 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 08:32:05
July 05 2011 08:16 GMT
#658
On July 05 2011 17:05 xarthaz wrote:
The bottom line is LoL is the most popular Western Esport of all time, its that simple. The 210 000 viewers was world record for any western esports event. as such, it must be cherished, and honored. in fact i will shortly proceed to have a glorious match of lol myself. the new free champion week is about to start, let us enjoy it, fellow summoners!


I see a lot being made out of this stream number, but isn't that simply because riot embedded it in their game client? I mean if blizzard were to do that for battlenet and make it play automatically I'm sure they would smash 200k viewers with ease.

I find Lol boring to watch but that may just be because I don't play it. But from what I understand its similar to dota, which I played heaps and heaps, its the type of thing thats fun to play but not very entertaining to watch. History tells us that these type of games despite having a huge playerbase tend to fail. I guess only time will tell how viable LoL really is.

While I don't really mind them trying new games, I can totally understand where this disappointment and negativity is coming from, as you would expect any quake fan to get upset when their game is removed.


edit: I just checked the youtube videos for sc2 and lol finals respectively, the sc2 finals had 20k views while the LoL finals had 7k, I really don't think its the most popular western esports.
xarthaz
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1704 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-05 08:43:01
July 05 2011 08:41 GMT
#659
All your ifs and buts and whens.. You can fiddle with that shit for days, but the reality is: LoL is the most popular western ESPORT of all time. And yeah, its way more popular than SC2 in player counts anyway so strange youre trying to speculate claims from that angle. Maybe if WoW launcher had a link to the SC2 stream it could match it :p As such, for everyone that holds success of esports dear, it is rational to cherish the game that has stormed the industry like nothing that has ever happened.
Aah thats the stuff..
Disquiet
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia628 Posts
July 05 2011 08:50 GMT
#660
On July 05 2011 17:41 xarthaz wrote:
All your ifs and buts and whens.. You can fiddle with that shit for days, but the reality is: LoL is the most popular western ESPORT of all time. And yeah, its way more popular than SC2 in player counts anyway so strange youre trying to speculate claims from that angle. Maybe if WoW launcher had a link to the SC2 stream it could match it :p As such, for everyone that holds success of esports dear, it is rational to cherish the game that has stormed the industry like nothing that has ever happened.

okay if theres no stream trickery going on explain why there are so few views on the finals vods... if it were really as popular as you say more people would be interested in watching it on youtube also.

Most popular ESPORT of all time says you... based upon a single stream number. Its a bit early to call it don't you think?
Prev 1 31 32 33 34 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2025 GSL S2 - Ro8 Group A
CranKy Ducklings184
EnkiAlexander 114
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 149
NeuroSwarm 145
RuFF_SC2 111
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2495
Artosis 951
ajuk12(nOOB) 44
Icarus 6
Bale 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever274
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K885
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor156
Other Games
summit1g10703
C9.Mang01444
shahzam1165
JimRising 609
ViBE286
Maynarde172
ToD171
WinterStarcraft147
Mew2King55
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1424
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH283
• Hupsaiya 93
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki29
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5690
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
8h 8m
Replay Cast
21h 8m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 7h
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
SC Evo League
5 days
Circuito Brasileiro de…
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-11
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.