EPTRace Win Rates Update: May - Page 3
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Blackk
South Africa226 Posts
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Condor
Netherlands188 Posts
Ah, and by the way, a good addition to this plot might be to make some vertical lines indicating when new patches were applied. | ||
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Gescom
Canada3510 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:24 aurum510 wrote: How can IdrA cry about ZvP... It's the most imbalanced matchup and it's in favor of Zerg... 53-47 is seriously not imba, especially if you were to look at it on a map by map breakdown and remove the outliers. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:33 Yaotzin wrote: Maps changing is something to bear in mind, but the player/skill level stuff cancels out. That's definitely not true. You rarely see an even distribution of a races in the opening round of a tournament. It would be a very intensive study to perform but I can guarantee that it wouldn't be close to cancelling out when you start looking at professionals vs amateurs in early rounds. | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png) | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:37 Lonyo wrote: MC lost to Alicia in a PvP in GS ST In GSTL before that he went 3-1 He lost to Polt in GSL April, PvT, but won a PvZ and beat a terran in Up/Down matches. He won the GSL before that. Protoss may be doing worse against Zerg overall, but MC's performance isn't bad because of balance changes. He lost a PvT 2-0 and a PvP 2-0 and that's why he went out of the two recent GSLs. Yeah I know, I suspect he's just spreading himself thin with so many trips abroad for tournaments. Anyway it's about Protoss overall, they aren't doing well, not even the good ones. That's definitely not true. You rarely see an even distribution of a races in the opening round of a tournament. It would be a very intensive study to perform but I can guarantee that it wouldn't be close to cancelling out when you start looking at professionals vs amateurs in early rounds. Do you have any data on the races of amateurs in competitions? | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:31 awu25 wrote: I think many people still need to take a statistics course. These matches weren't all played under the same circumstances (different maps, different players, different skill levels) so to say that the game is balanced/imbalanced based on these statistics is wrong. Exaclty. Those statistic does not mean much at all. Just take a GSL final game nestea vs. inca, and inca DT rushed nestea every single game. And all that horrible play comes into statistics saying "toss is underperforming", while it does not saying anything about game balance. | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
tnx for stats, as one can see zerg has really had really low winrates that began around december, January and are now doing fairly well. Life is good for the swarm. Though Terrans have always been doing well. | ||
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Olinim
4044 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:41 Alpina wrote: Exaclty. Those statistic does not mean much at all. Just take a GSL final game nestea vs. inca, and inca DT rushed nestea every single game. And all that horrible play comes into statistics saying "toss is underperforming", while it does not saying anything about game balance. Then when do any statistics matter if you can just brush it off so easily? Surely MC's wins shouldn't count for protoss, idra just roach ling all inned him every game. | ||
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JustPlay
United States211 Posts
The zerg roach/ling all-in has been pretty much solved for a while. MC built to counter it in nearly every game. | ||
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Blackk
South Africa226 Posts
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Spacekyod
United States818 Posts
Yep, they were. The zerg whine was just way too loud. The argument for protoss was that we have found a strat that works great, so why deviate from it right now? If anything zerg should not be whining, and instead be trying to find new strats for taking down protoss. But at that moment all zergs wanted to do was macro, macro, macro and attempt to deathball vs deathball. Now we have the shoe on the other foot, and it's time for Protoss to come up with new strats and B.O's. Hopefully Blizzard gives us a chance to make this happen before making anymore changes to the game. | ||
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Ctuchik
Sweden91 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yAbZn.png) | ||
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kzn
United States1218 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:41 Alpina wrote: Exaclty. Those statistic does not mean much at all. Just take a GSL final game nestea vs. inca, and inca DT rushed nestea every single game. And all that horrible play comes into statistics saying "toss is underperforming", while it does not saying anything about game balance. You need a hell of a lot more than one anecdote to establish your point, because you're essentially claiming that P players are on average much worse than Z players. This flies in the face of the default assumption of a bell curve, so it needs actual data (read: statistics) to support it. | ||
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:41 Yaotzin wrote: Yeah I know, I suspect he's just spreading himself thin with so many trips abroad for tournaments. Anyway it's about Protoss overall, they aren't doing well, not even the good ones. Do you have any data on the races of amateurs in competitions? No but I'm saying you can't just say the skill level thing will cancel out. Like in MLG, you have tons of open bracket amateurs who are playing against professionals. For every professional T who played an amateur Z, you won't see an equal amount of professional Z who played an amateur T. I don't expect anyone to take these factors into account since it would be too much work and the boundaries are vague | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
Yes, these statistics clearly show that overall, zerg has about the same chances to win as protoss. However, none of these statistics show if these wins come from the early game, midgame or the lategame. If we could see winpercentages per matchup overall , y-axis winpercentage, x-axis game duration, we could deduct if lategame protoss is imbalanced, or if lategame TvZ is terribly lopsided in favour of Zerg. Until then these numbers are a good commodity, but nothing conclusion can be deducted from them balance wise. | ||
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:48 kzn wrote: You need a hell of a lot more than one anecdote to establish your point, because you're essentially claiming that P players are on average much worse than Z players. This flies in the face of the default assumption of a bell curve, so it needs actual data (read: statistics) to support it. He's talking about using the statistics to talk about balance and using a simple example, not which races are doing better which is a different thing. It's one thing to say PvZ is 60% win rate, protoss needs to be nerfed. It's another thing to say Protoss has been doing well against zerg recently | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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Joseph123
Bulgaria1144 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:09 Mailing wrote: Not really. Korean protoss are falling apart, to the point where only Alicia, MC, Ace, Squirtle, and maybe Huk are having any form of consistent results, namely because they are actually really good players who belong in Code S >> I would suspect the rest, like inca/anypro/tester/hongun/sangho to fall out of code S soon. Ace Huk and Squirtle having consistent results? maybe u mean that they are losing every game they play? | ||
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