EPT
Race Win Rates Update: May - Page 24
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
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Konsume
Canada466 Posts
There has been something like 7-10 new tournaments... | ||
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Tiazi
Netherlands761 Posts
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Ctuchik
Sweden91 Posts
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EliteReplay
Dominican Republic913 Posts
On July 08 2011 22:43 Ctuchik wrote: Doesn't seem like I can edit the title. Should I make a new post with the June stats? u can just pm an admin. | ||
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StarCraft64
United States354 Posts
On July 08 2011 22:43 Ctuchik wrote: Doesn't seem like I can edit the title. Should I make a new post with the June stats? If you're going to keep updating this monthly for a while, then I think you should definitely make a new thread for each. It will help isolate the discussions on the new statistics when they come out. It would be similar to Jinro's SC2 General Discussion Thread edit: And I would format the OP the same as well. | ||
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Ctuchik
Sweden91 Posts
On July 08 2011 22:48 StarCraft64 wrote: If you're going to keep updating this monthly for a while, then I think you should definitely make a new thread for each. It will help isolate the discussions on the new statistics when they come out. It would be similar to Jinro's SC2 General Discussion Thread. Yeah that makes sense. | ||
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Tinuss
Netherlands9 Posts
I also like how ZvP keeps going up and down every other 2 months or so ^^, look quite balanced aswell, i bet blizz just peaks every now and again aswell! thanks! | ||
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Xadar
497 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:24 aurum510 wrote: How can IdrA cry about ZvP... It's the most imbalanced matchup and it's in favor of Zerg... You need to look at gameplay to measure balance not at results. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On July 08 2011 22:53 Xadar wrote: You need to look at gameplay to measure balance not at results. Not that I agree with the quoted stuff, but this is wrong too. Results are the most objective way of measuring balance - "look at the gameplay" is inevitably heavily biased. | ||
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Harmonious
179 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:11 Lynkilen wrote: Looks like ZvP could use some slight innovation from P's, surprisingly even considering all the balance QQ  It could be seen as surprising, but the QQ is only valid, if at all, when viewed in the context of the current knowledge of the game. But the current knowledge of the game is not complete and probably won't be for a few years. It is extremely hard to say if the game is fundamentally imbalanced. The change in game play on the pro level has changed significantly over the last few tournaments. For the better in terms of entertainment in my opinion. If I can make a prediction I think the raven will become more popular in TVT mech versus biomech. Mostly because biomech ends up as tank/maurader due to helions. Should be fun, and I will play around with it tonight think. Not that I think I have any chance of revolutionizing the game | ||
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Harmonious
179 Posts
On July 08 2011 22:55 Yaotzin wrote: Not that I agree with the quoted stuff, but this is wrong too. Results are the most objective way of measuring balance - "look at the gameplay" is inevitably heavily biased. I agree with you completely, results are what matter and are the only objective way to measure this. I think the difficulty right now is seeing past the frequent roflstomps that happen one way or the other. Until stronger standards of play emerge I don't think that will improve Dark Templars for example win way too often at the moment, not because they are too strong, but Terrans seem to never save scans for even a few seconds at the critical timings. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On July 08 2011 22:00 Logros wrote: I think it's mainly due to the european and american terrans being crap compared to the korean ones. Eh, even KR Terrans haven't been doing well in GSL July and other tournaments. The only exceptions involve the super tournament (where April/May trends were perpetuated) and MMA winning MLG. In fact, due to GSL's format, most changes in winrate are likely to follow and lag behind foreign trends. With major events every week or 2 in the foreign scene, it's fairly volatile, but very indicative of meta game trends. When a pro has to play 40 games over 2-3 days, ideas and tactics are thrown relentlessly against one another for everybody to disect. It allows players to steal and adapt builds at an incredible rate. GSL being so drawn out lags behind because players have so long to abuse their prized strategies, while experimentation happens in depth, instead of breadth. Opinion: We're going to see a relative nosedive in Terran results in GSL where it will go well below 50%. Basically a backlash effect to Terran being overpopulated in GSL (and KR in general). Shifts in TvX metagame will catch up and P and Z will rapidly replace mediocre Ts from Code A and into S. By the end of the year, T will be the minority in GSL without any major metagame shifts or patch intervention. | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On July 08 2011 22:55 Yaotzin wrote: Not that I agree with the quoted stuff, but this is wrong too. Results are the most objective way of measuring balance - "look at the gameplay" is inevitably heavily biased. Results are skewed by mass sometimes. What imbalances a GSL player faces will not be the same as what a MLG pool player faces, for example. If protoss found a build that was really hard to do, so that only 10 of the top protoss could pull it off but it had a 90% win rate, there would be problems, even though it could not effect the overall win rate. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:18 Day[9] wrote: Fantastic graphs! I have a really stupid request if possible lol: I'm used to Zerg = Red, Terran = Blue, Protoss = Green from years of surfing Teamliquid. Would it be possible to do some color swapouts? Regardless, I LOVE seeing data like this :D Totally agree, it just seems natural that way. | ||
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Harmonious
179 Posts
On July 08 2011 23:20 SafeAsCheese wrote: What imbalances a GSL player faces will not be the same as what a MLG pool player faces, for example. That might be true, but personally I don't think we can really consider balance in that way. But right now I'd say things are too close to conclude that anything is imbalanced. | ||
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NeWeNiyaLord
Norway2474 Posts
On July 08 2011 23:11 Harmonious wrote: I agree with you completely, results are what matter and are the only objective way to measure this. I think the difficulty right now is seeing past the frequent roflstomps that happen one way or the other. Until stronger standards of play emerge I don't think that will improve Dark Templars for example win way too often at the moment, not because they are too strong, but Terrans seem to never save scans for even a few seconds at the critical timings. Well at EU server's it seemes like P is doing very bad, just couse of the new MorroW style PvZ. I just think IdrA needs some coaching from MorroW ^^, | ||
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
On July 08 2011 23:17 aksfjh wrote: I don't know what you base your opinion upon, but I would be very surprised if you were proven right. The korean ladder is being completely dominated by terrans at the master/GM level, and with all their early game options, they can never fall that low in winrates. Moreover, MC said that PvT is problematic at the moment. Zergs have been saying that now that T has figured that ghosts are actually the answer to everything, T is favored in ZvT as well.Eh, even KR Terrans haven't been doing well in GSL July and other tournaments. The only exceptions involve the super tournament (where April/May trends were perpetuated) and MMA winning MLG. In fact, due to GSL's format, most changes in winrate are likely to follow and lag behind foreign trends. With major events every week or 2 in the foreign scene, it's fairly volatile, but very indicative of meta game trends. When a pro has to play 40 games over 2-3 days, ideas and tactics are thrown relentlessly against one another for everybody to disect. It allows players to steal and adapt builds at an incredible rate. GSL being so drawn out lags behind because players have so long to abuse their prized strategies, while experimentation happens in depth, instead of breadth. Opinion: We're going to see a relative nosedive in Terran results in GSL where it will go well below 50%. Basically a backlash effect to Terran being overpopulated in GSL (and KR in general). Shifts in TvX metagame will catch up and P and Z will rapidly replace mediocre Ts from Code A and into S. By the end of the year, T will be the minority in GSL without any major metagame shifts or patch intervention. Finally, T is still the most popular race (i'd say the ratio is about 5-4-3 T/P/Z), so claiming that the most popular race would somehow become the least represented would show tremendous imbalance. June WAS their low. | ||
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Trizz
Netherlands1318 Posts
I played 16 games and 13 of them were ZvZ. It's pissing me off.. | ||
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Harmonious
179 Posts
On July 08 2011 23:04 Harmonious wrote: If I can make a prediction I think the raven will become more popular in TVT mech versus biomech. Mostly because biomech ends up as tank/maurader due to helions. Watch IMYoda v ZenexByun in the GSTL for an example of this. | ||
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