EPTRace Win Rates Update: May - Page 10
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pHelix Equilibria
United States1134 Posts
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:02 Havefa1th wrote: Your math is not sound at all. 2 scans =! 4 overlords. You can't compare apples and oranges. Regardless, the point remains that Zerg CANNOT prevent a Terran from scanning. When you scan, you get information. There's nothing a Zerg can do about it except move buildings, and if you don't get information from your scan, that's YOUR fault. Zerg has to sacrifice overlords, and if you stick marines around the edge of your base, that overlord isn't guaranteed to get information. It's a hope and pray situation for Zerg. Apples and oranges, you can't compare them. Also, if you don't know what tech he's going before 10 minutes into the game, you're playing Terran wrong. Turtle less, drop more, be more aggressive. Hmm... Zerg ovverlord is hope and pray that you get the info you need but scans are not hope and pray? His tech could be ANYWHERE. I never said anything about 'before 10 minutes' - quite the opposite and I never suggested that scans equal ovis, just that the suggestion to use more scans and not being greedy is the same. But apparently you didn't read that closely. | ||
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Anomalist0032
United States47 Posts
As toss i know getting hallucinate not only delays my robo timing, but it also burns precious precious forcefields from my sentries, but its a price worth paying to actually be able to see whats happening on the map. Tl:dr scouting is never free, but effective scouting is always worth it. | ||
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Raid
United States398 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:26 Chaosvuistje wrote: Please stop. 6rax allins are really easy to stop. If you scout no gas for the terran, he is either 2 raxing( in which case he would have already been there ) 1rax FE or a mass rax allin. In any case, teching to banelings after the initial bunker rush timing is over without action when you're still in the dark will keep you safe from any non-gas terran push. A spinecrawler deals well with 2rax pushes and scarying off hellions unless they go mass hellion. Infact, most terran allins can be dealt with correct control between queens, banelings, zerglings and spinecrawlers. Sorry I had to get this off my chest it is incorrect to use =! because the proper way is to use !=... Sorry dude if your gonna use operators please at least use them right or its going to bug the crap out of me. You wouldn't say equals not would you? not equals sir not equals.. Going back on topic zerg should just send some lings to the front of terrans base and leave em at the expo and see how long it takes for them to expo and how many marines come out simple enough? Most maps are fairly large that depending on what comes out allows you to build 2-3 spines + several rounds of lings. They really need to get rid of close positions on maps its just stupid thats why its imbalanced. | ||
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d.o.c
United States49 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:10 Hristiyan wrote: Ok, Kim admits that there are scouting issues with the 3 races, but the other two races are not that much vulnerable az zerg is early game, cuz they can wall-in and force fields to protect them, and have scans and hallucinations to scout. In what rightful mind, do you know such an issue and say "well if players don't solve that till HotS, we're gonna address those issues then". Am i supposed to switch races till then, or just continue to rage when i get cheesed by terrans like hell ? Jeasus Christ, is that balance team retarded or what ..... ? User was warned for this post | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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Sakarabu
United Kingdom132 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:32 Hristiyan wrote: The guy is saying that one way or another that issue will be addressed for all 3 races. However if HotS is 1 year away and so is the solution, then this race is pointless right now or a coin-flip at best. The other two races can wait, but not that one .... solution is needed right now! Nestea doesn't need a solution, and if Nestea doesn't then no one does. You just have to figure out how he does it  | ||
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Hristiyan
99 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:36 Anomalist0032 wrote: I like how people bring up hallucinate and scan like their free, but then saccing an ovy is atrocious in the cost value. If the most imbalanced early game scout solution - pneomatized carapace required a spawning pool and now a Lair, zerg would be as much behind resource and tech wise as the protoss would be with getting a hallucination. On top of that i would loose a supply source and 100 minerals for a slower scout, and you would loose X sentry energy for a fast one. So please don't talk about that. I'm not saying thats the proper solution, but i'm saying if that was true, the tosses and zergs would have an equal early game scouting and STILL the terrans would have by far the best one. | ||
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Hristiyan
99 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:45 Yaotzin wrote: Nestea doesn't need a solution, and if Nestea doesn't then no one does. You just have to figure out how he does it No, nestea wins his games with revolutionary strats, not because they are mega strong, but because they are very "new" and they just havent seen it. If neastea played a solid, standart games , he would never win a GSL. | ||
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
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bramapanzer
83 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:40 Sakarabu wrote: Am I reading this correctly? After these graphs Zerg is still the race whining in this thread? What is wrong with you people? Whiners will be Whiners.... That being said, these stats about pro's don't mean much. KiwiKaki could probably beat vibe in bo7, but idra would probably beat kiwi in bo7. Which race is OP from these stats? At the pro level, the race doesn't matter as much as the sheer skill (or lack there of) of the players. | ||
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Murse
United States3 Posts
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Voltaire
United States1485 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:35 pHelix Equilibria wrote: Wow the high times for Terrans during Nov. 2010. Now that was ridiculous. Finally working out to the fair levels. That was during the era when zergs were still struggling to stop the 2 rax rush every game. That month was MKP's rise to fame. Fun times. | ||
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RemrafGrez
United States180 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:40 Sakarabu wrote: Am I reading this correctly? After these graphs Zerg is still the race whining in this thread? What is wrong with you people? You aren't really surprised are you? | ||
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JustPlay
United States211 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:48 rysecake wrote: Zerg still has a disproportionately difficult time in the early game, and even top players can be killed by ridiculous all-ins because there's simply no way to tell. Zergs still complaining they suck? Hate to break it to you but zerg is fine. When people are complaining about zerg scouting or zerg getting cheesed it has everything to do with the early game. You can't use 4 overlords to scout. You can use 1-2 depending on the map due to their speed and the terran being able to score free kills if you attempt to send your second or third in to a pre-scouting position. On top of that if they have 2 marines at opposite sides of their base you will not see anything important inside if they are any good, but again this depends on the map and spawns. Close air benefits overlord scouting significantly on some maps. On shattered temple you 100% know what they are doing for the rest of the game if the terran spawns at 6 and you spawn at 9. SC2 has a lot of problems for all races, and even if the races were at 50% those problems won't magically go away. | ||
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Sideburn
United States442 Posts
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:23 Grumblethorpe wrote: great stats! nice to see Zergs finally breaking the 50% mark in zvp More like smashing the crap out of 50%. Truly these graphs tell us one thing. Toss is OP! Maybe this will help some players understand that winning and losing trends are established by the players and not the perceived balance of the game. Zergs are playing well right now, and I don't think balance will keep that from changing. Protoss players need to adapt  . Though even in BW we we're the "cool, shiny" race that never seemed to win anything. On June 08 2011 04:40 Sakarabu wrote: Am I reading this correctly? After these graphs Zerg is still the race whining in this thread? What is wrong with you people? I think those are the people who feel like they have been had, trying to defend themselves, and their own denial. Balance has sooo much less to do with skill at this point in Sc2. At least pro players are so good, and respectful to the community, that they don't whine about the balance so much, that their entire loyal following doesn't feel the need to speak out about it. Surely though, because of their skill, they have some better understanding of the balance. I guess I will just keep playing games to get better, no amount of whining will help me be a better player. | ||
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Konsume
Canada466 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:25 dani` wrote: Good job. Every time a Zerg whines again after I defeat him about how "stupidly imbalanced" Protoss is I will point him to this so he can see it's all roughly equal so he can conclude he just played horribly =) or that zerg has an horrible learning curve and that everytime you're fighting someone of your level he always seems to have the easiest way around? it seems to me that some players are confusing "balanced" and "how hard is one race compared to another".... but that's just me | ||
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jHERO
China167 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:55 JustPlay wrote: Zerg still has a disproportionately difficult time in the early game, and even top players can be killed by ridiculous all-ins because there's simply no way to tell. When people are complaining about zerg scouting or zerg getting cheesed it has everything to do with the early game. You can't use 4 overlords to scout. You can use 1-2 depending on the map due to their speed and the terran being able to score free kills if you attempt to send your second or third in to a pre-scouting position. SC2 has a lot of problems for all races, and even if the races were at 50% those problems won't magically go away. lol ridiculous argument, theres only two early game pressure from terran 1, 2 rax + bunker 2. reactored helion on small maps like xel-naga caverns, you can assume a 2 rax, the safe build would be lings first, or good overlord placement to spot bunker and pull ~4 drones to kill scv building bunker reactored helion can be easily stopped on any map, (except for taldarine (sp) ) where there is no ramp to block with queens, but otherwise 2 queens, or a couple of roaches completely shuts it down | ||
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