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Trouble with Terran macro, cannot see progress bar - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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AndrewZorn
Profile Joined November 2010
United States56 Posts
June 05 2011 18:39 GMT
#21
I'm all about skill over automation, but including tiny progress indicators on each Barracks in a control group would not be "taking the skill out of the game". Sure, I know to (and do) just keep checking. Extra information is not dumbing down of the game, in fact, it would create more opportunity to perfect timings as there would be a better balance between not queuing and not missing production.

I wish people wouldn't confuse tactics learned to accommodate an uninformative UI with SupCom-style ease. Consider the fact that SC2 uses nearly the same UI as the original StarCraft, which was probably not originally designed to be used as a competitive tool with people pushing 300APM.
Aldehyde
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Sweden939 Posts
June 05 2011 19:05 GMT
#22
On June 06 2011 03:13 erisco wrote:
Using the audio cue: a cool idea but are some cues skipped if other cues are happening simultaneously? I haven't paid enough attention to the audio to know if this occurs -- and paying attention to the audio that intently sounds difficult, as one missed cue and all of a sudden you could be missing a boat load of production time; perhaps this is a skill that could be mastered though.

Double tapping to view production facilities on-screen: other than that there are a number of probably scattered progress parse to visually parse, if your production facilities ever span more than one screen -- and judging by the games I've seen, they often enough do come the late game -- this solution becomes a bit inflexible. I would much rather use map bookmarks, as they can easily adjusted on the fly and account for multiple production facility locations. This seems like the most sound solution in my eyes.


Don't use audio cues. At least not mid-late game. They are delayed and sometimes skipped. It's just bad.
Instead, as has been said before, just check if your buildings are producing. If not, produce some more, if it is, go back to what you were doing.

After a while you'll just know when you have to build more.
To make the process easier, just make sure to start everything up as close to each other as possible so that all units pop out at once. Makes macroing so, so much easier.
GoldenH
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1115 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 19:11:47
June 05 2011 19:10 GMT
#23
Just get your buildings synched up. Some pros actually start buildings late so that their units come out on time. This is no different than if you let the building idle for a few seconds (unless by delaying a building they get a macro advantage, which they almost never do). So don't worry about the synching up time, just make sure your buildings are always building units. And since your buildings are always building, you know that after you synch up a new wave of units is when you should do micro-intensive tasks.
"(Dudes are) not going to say "Buy this game — I cried at the end". (...) I suppose the secret is to find a game that makes you shoot eight million fuckin' dudes and then cry about how awesome it is to shoot eight million fuckin' dudes." - Tim Rogers
Kashll
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1117 Posts
June 05 2011 19:17 GMT
#24
Once you play enough you get an intuitive feel for how long units take to build. When i watch my friend play (and try to help him out), I can say things like, "go build another tank", and he'll go back to his factory to see a tank at 98% completion. It freaks him out ^_^
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
June 05 2011 19:22 GMT
#25
if people can macro in BW and you cant in sc2, its your problem. Play a lots, learn the body memory and get better.

if you cant, you are just not an RTS gamer
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
TimeSpiral
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1010 Posts
June 05 2011 19:40 GMT
#26
I vote for adding a progress bar for each building once you have a multiple building selection. There is no reason not to.

I've thought this many times, and I'm glad someone brought it up.

Oh, and for those who think it will make things "easier" by rebuttal is: more information raises the skill ceiling. It certainly does not lower it.
[G] Positioning, Formations, and Tactics: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187892
teaCher
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada521 Posts
June 05 2011 19:48 GMT
#27
get more APM, and skill and u will see when marines are finish building :\
Follow me @H2O_teaCher ..... www.pmsclan.com
TimeSpiral
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1010 Posts
June 05 2011 19:53 GMT
#28
On June 06 2011 04:48 sad.wish wrote:
get more APM, and skill and u will see when marines are finish building :\


Where you at, Mods? I thought we were cracking down on rubbish like this ^
[G] Positioning, Formations, and Tactics: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187892
Wesso
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands1245 Posts
June 05 2011 19:55 GMT
#29
On June 06 2011 04:53 TimeSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2011 04:48 sad.wish wrote:
get more APM, and skill and u will see when marines are finish building :\


Where you at, Mods? I thought we were cracking down on rubbish like this ^


have a bit of respect for the effort mods put in, that post has been there for 5 mins and there are much bigger and worse threads right now due to MLG.
Chvol
Profile Joined August 2010
United States200 Posts
June 05 2011 19:58 GMT
#30
Memorize the build times of the units and use the in game timer to approximate when they're almost done if you want some exact way to do it. I think most of the pros just have a mental clock of sorts that they use. After you've played 1000 games, it starts to become easier to get a feeling of when the round of units is about done.
LuckyMacro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1482 Posts
June 05 2011 19:58 GMT
#31
It's like cooking without a recipe book telling you exactly what to do and when. It comes easier with experience...muscle memory..etc.
CptCutter
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom370 Posts
June 05 2011 20:07 GMT
#32
queing units will not lose you the game (of course more than two production cycles of qued units is bad). contrary to what people think, queing units does not drastically damage your game.
NicoLoco
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway159 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 20:37:30
June 05 2011 20:31 GMT
#33
On June 06 2011 05:07 CptCutter wrote:
queing units will not lose you the game (of course more than two production cycles of qued units is bad). contrary to what people think, queing units does not drastically damage your game.

agreed. when I get past my initial base I will often end up queuing a second marine even if my marine in production is at around 70%. As long as you are on a correct number of unit producing facilities according to number of bases you are fine. That being said, I never have more than 1 additional unit in queue, and never queue anything for gas intensive units like tanks and medivacs.
If I gave a shit you'd be the first to get it!
RmoteCntrld
Profile Joined June 2010
United States596 Posts
June 05 2011 20:33 GMT
#34
On June 05 2011 23:19 erisco wrote:
Tapping the hotkey more frequently I do not feel is any solution. Say that I have a set of actions I need to do. For example say that I need to float a CC to an expansion, transfer workers, and drop two supply depos. This requires a lot of mouse work so it will take a few seconds.

However, I know keeping up on production is the more important thing, so I tap my production hotkey before I start anything and I see that all the facilities are still working. Then, I click on my CC to lift it. At that exact moment, all my production facilities become idle again, but I am floating my CC somewhere, transferring workers, and dropping two depos, all the while my production is still idle.

This problem would be mitigated if there was a progress bar. If it was 50% to 75% full, I would know that I could execute the actions before having to macro again. However, if it was 80% to 90% full, I would simply queue my next production cycle and then execute the actions. There is no way to make this judgement if all I can see is a binary "yes production is active" or "no production is idle".


You can just tap in the time it takes to move your mouse its one key stroke to check
TheMerryDwarf
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom12 Posts
June 05 2011 23:56 GMT
#35
I have, and still do, struggle with the tapping that people have been talking about - i have rebound my countrol groups so that i can assign CC - F1, barraks - F2, Factories - F3, Starports - F4. This means that I can easily cycle through them by putting my little finger on F1 and just tapping my fingers across the 4 keys (think bored person drumming fingers on desk).

All I have to do then is keep an eye out for any buildings without the white dots..

It has really helped me (don't get me wrong, i still suck) but i find this a really nice way to keep an eye on production while having my fingers close to my army control groups (on standard numbers 1-5)

TMD
I love cheese (dairy)
Jtn
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
444 Posts
June 06 2011 00:04 GMT
#36
If you're that worried about progress bars, use camera hotkeys over your buildings. There's absolutely no reason why we need progress bars in your control groups, just tap more than like twice every 30 seconds and you'll be fine. Shouldn't be too much to ask of anyone.
Xsoild
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States121 Posts
June 06 2011 00:10 GMT
#37
On June 05 2011 23:19 erisco wrote:
Tapping the hotkey more frequently I do not feel is any solution. Say that I have a set of actions I need to do. For example say that I need to float a CC to an expansion, transfer workers, and drop two supply depos. This requires a lot of mouse work so it will take a few seconds.

However, I know keeping up on production is the more important thing, so I tap my production hotkey before I start anything and I see that all the facilities are still working. Then, I click on my CC to lift it. At that exact moment, all my production facilities become idle again, but I am floating my CC somewhere, transferring workers, and dropping two depos, all the while my production is still idle.

This problem would be mitigated if there was a progress bar. If it was 50% to 75% full, I would know that I could execute the actions before having to macro again. However, if it was 80% to 90% full, I would simply queue my next production cycle and then execute the actions. There is no way to make this judgement if all I can see is a binary "yes production is active" or "no production is idle".


this is what separates players from better players. you have to learn the timings on things and be able to do all those actions at the same time. seems like this is you hitting an apm wall and looking for a way around it. just practice and play a lot more and you'll get it.
Keep on trying
MechKing
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3004 Posts
June 06 2011 00:13 GMT
#38
Why don't you just check the little white dot down on the bottom?
cristo1122
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia505 Posts
June 06 2011 00:20 GMT
#39
Use the camera positions but other than that u just have to train ur brain to bui,d units at certain intervals I find this also works when playing zerg for my injects
ZvP imbalanced blizzards solution nerf terran
Scila
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1849 Posts
June 06 2011 00:48 GMT
#40
On June 05 2011 23:15 Teim wrote:
I just check each of them a lot. Constantly cycling through all my production structures. Eventually you start to get a feel for the timing and just do it naturally which is actually quite amazing to see when you watch one of your own replays.


Pretty much this.
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
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