I was messing around with multiple Nydus Worm play in an FFA tonight and I noticed that the capacity-status-bar (??) above the worm is always extremely small relative to its total length. I've never seen it even close to full.
So I loaded up a 1v1 vs Easy A.I. and maxed on supply to see how much the Nydus Worm status bar would actually show.
These are the results:
1) A 200/200 army with 75 drones and 5 queens (85 supply, so 115 supply in army).
2) That 115 supply army loaded into the Nydus Worm. Notice what a relatively small fraction of the total capacity that status bar is showing.
3) An "actual" 200/200 army (sad...I know).
4) That 200 supply army loaded into the Nydus Worm. The status bar doesn't even read 1/4 full - more like 1/5th. Does that mean that a Nydus Worm can hold close to 1000 supply?
I'm guessing this mass capacity Nydus Worm feature was put in place for team games, perhaps a 4v4 where all players on one team are Zerg and they all decide to go for a Nydus Worm attack......but how often does that happen? EDIT: I've since found out that the Nydus Worm has a unit-limit (not supply limit), and that number is roughly 255. Read post #5 for more information
My problem here is that when using Nydus Worms in 1v1 league play, the status bar for 10 or even 20 supply of units (potentially game-ending or game-saving units) loaded inside of it is far too small. When bouncing around the minimap backspace injecting hatcheries, setting new rally points, control grouping your units and harassing, it is easy to overlook a handful of lings or 2 infestors you may have left in your Nydus Worm. As if the drawbacks of Nydusing your enemy aren't plentiful enough, this is just one more thing to add to the list.
This is what 16 supply of Roaches looks like:
This is what 2 Infestors look like:
See how infinitesimally small that status bar is?
I would much prefer a 200 or 400 supply capacity Nydus Worm where a handful of units loaded inside would be far more noticeable to the player. I think the reasons why Nydus Worms should have a more visible status bar (meaning lower supply capacity) outweigh the reasons why having a ~1000 supply capacity would be beneficial.
Isn't it done by size of the unit? Like 2 zerglings take the same area as a marauder, even though the marauder has more supply. What happens if you load in 200 supply of lings, nothing more?
I've noticed this too, but never really did anything about it.
It would be nice if it showed a bar that were easier to estimate the percentage of, I agree. Even if the default cap of its supply were 200, it'd be fine.
On May 18 2011 18:53 Hassybaby wrote: Isn't it done by size of the unit? Like 2 zerglings take the same area as a marauder, even though the marauder has more supply. What happens if you load in 200 supply of lings, nothing more?
I was pretty sure you were wrong, but I went ahead and tried them all anyway.
Answer: You are partly right.
1) 200/200 of purely Ultralisks. No Queens, no Drones.
2) Those Ultralisks loaded into the Nydus Worm. Notice that the supply capacity status bar is more-full than a 200/200 army of Roach/Hydra/Infestor, but still barely above the 1/4 mark.
3) 200/200 of purely Speedlings. No Queens, no Drones. I'm glad you made this suggestion, because something ridiculous happened........see below.
4) The Nydus Worm prevented me from fully loading all of the Speedlings!!!!!! Yea, that's right - I was not able to load 200/200 supply of Speedlings into a Nydus Worm, meaning that the unit capacity IS CAPPED, yet that bar still never reaches even close to half-way full.
The max-supply status bar is about what it was at when all of the Ultralisks were loaded.
This is a screenshot of when the Nydus Worm stopped accepting Speedlings.
Interesting that you cant load up 200/200 zerglings yet the bar isnt full. Might wanna post this in blizzard bug forum or something. Either the bar needs to be full or it needs to allow more.
The Nydus limit is 255 units. Same as you highlighting 255 units in one go... or 2^8 - 1 per group... 8 bits or so...? kinda like how bosses in rpgs always have a 65535 hp cap for 16 bit games... or like 2^16 - 1 max up limit is 255 in sc1 for 3rd party editors ( 3 for the standard editor )
On May 18 2011 19:53 nalgene wrote: The Nydus limit is 255 units. Same as you highlighting 255 units in one go... or 2^8 - 1 per group... 8 bits or so...? kinda like how bosses in rpgs always have a 65535 hp cap for 16 bit games... or like 2^16 - 1 max up limit is 255 in sc1 for 3rd party editors ( 3 for the standard editor )
So why the ~1000 supply capacity status bar if the Nydus Worm caps at 255 units?
On May 18 2011 19:53 nalgene wrote: The Nydus limit is 255 units. Same as you highlighting 255 units in one go... or 2^8 - 1 per group... 8 bits or so...? kinda like how bosses in rpgs always have a 65535 hp cap for 16 bit games... or like 2^16 - 1 max up limit is 255 in sc1 for 3rd party editors ( 3 for the standard editor )
So why the ~1000 supply capacity status bar if the Nydus Worm caps at 255 units?
Load 255 Ultralisk at 6 Supply and you'll get 1530 Supply
The Nydus limit is 255 units. Same as you highlighting 255 units in one go... or 2^8 - 1 per group... 8 bits or so...? kinda like how bosses in rpgs always have a 65535 hp cap for 16 bit games... or like 2^16 - 1 max up limit is 255 in sc1 for 3rd party editors ( 3 for the standard editor )
Yep, 255 is exactly one unsigned byte (8 bit). So obviously Blizz didn't make a conscious decision when designing the capacity of the nydus worm, as the limit is imposed by the maximum of some variable in the code.
I think the design is made to give a feel that the Nydus Network is huge, even though it is not. But it doesn't really matter since you will never get so many units anyway (except zerglings, but this is still not very likely).
On May 18 2011 20:57 Naphal wrote: i could only fit 127 ultras and 2 queens in the nydus in the unit tester xD DAMN YOU BLIZZARD
btw the bar is full then 100%
so there is a unit and a spacecap
so the question is: why would they design a Nydus Worm to hold 127 ultras when that would never happen in a real game.
why am i squinting to see a tiny sliver of white representing a game-changing infestor or group of banelings in my Nydus Worm on 1v1 ladder or in a tournament?
the longer i play the more i see how zerg was "half-assed"
If you look at that Zergling picture you'll note that its about 1 quarter of the bar.
This could suggest that in a 4v4 where all 3 of your allies have left (you have control over all 4 teams) then you could fill it up. Someone needs to test this.
On May 18 2011 21:18 Tazerenix wrote: If you look at that Zergling picture you'll note that its about 1 quarter of the bar.
This could suggest that in a 4v4 where all 3 of your allies have left (you have control over all 4 teams) then you could fill it up. Someone needs to test this.
1 Nydus Worm can only hold 255 units, regardless of supply.
i cant believe people are actually complaining about this lol. Blizzard probably left it at 255 because in no real situation would there ever be more than 255 units trying to enter a nydus worm at once. It isn't half assed. They do the same thing in other games. In WoW for a long time the gold cap was 214768.36.47, because it was a 32 bit integer.
Theres no reason to spend developement time catering for situations that never arise in the game. Its the same as deleting the back of mountains that make up the scenery in a game. If its never going to be viewed theres no reason to keep it.
they should increase the build time again but make the thing spit out units faster again xD. try to get those 255 lings out of 1 nydus its wah ^^. Have to fill it up so the stuff comes out right. Don't want to have those lings run out first hihi and ultras at last when their army is already there.
I like nydus but at the moment it only really works for ultras or as a retreat reinforce thing and a take queens with you to heal. If i want to be sneaky i use overlords because they are faster ^^ but save them, since a nydus is a better and cheaper way to retreat lategame atleast.
oh and why 255 units maximum is a bit obvious ^^ you could also say FF units max. The reason why they can hold more supply is also easy, so the nydus can fetch 255 ultralisks. Not everything is about the multiplayer you know. And i guess the only reason why a nydus shows when something is inside because blizzard thought it would be good to not forget units in there, as this could always happen when the nydus gets destroyed while unloading.
It's 255 because it's the maximum unit selection. Play a practice with zerg, make only zergling. You will not be able to select more than 255 zerglings at once.
On May 18 2011 20:57 Naphal wrote: i could only fit 127 ultras and 2 queens in the nydus in the unit tester xD DAMN YOU BLIZZARD
btw the bar is full then 100%
so there is a unit and a spacecap
so the question is: why would they design a Nydus Worm to hold 127 ultras when that would never happen in a real game.
why am i squinting to see a tiny sliver of white representing a game-changing infestor or group of banelings in my Nydus Worm on 1v1 ladder or in a tournament?
the longer i play the more i see how zerg was "half-assed"
Yeah to be honest the Zerg design is seeming a little lacking every time they find some sort of bug or unit that just doesn't feel right. I personally chose not to play Zerg just because I never felt comfortable with the way the units worked back when I played random. Terran and Toss just had so much more synergy and lasers :p
But I wouldn't go so far as to call it "half-assed" just lacking. I mean the designers probably had a really hard time with Zerg and the time before HoTS I am sure (hoping) that they are ironing out Zerg and trying to make the race a little more well organized.
Seems like banelings would be the ultimate test, they take up 2 spots in an overlord, but only take up 0.5 food so you could potentially (without doing any unit tricks) have 400 banelings that take up 800 unit slots. (you would need 200 overlords to carry all those units)
On May 18 2011 22:52 MoreFaSho wrote: Seems like banelings would be the ultimate test, they take up 2 spots in an overlord, but only take up 0.5 food so you could potentially (without doing any unit tricks) have 400 banelings that take up 800 unit slots. (you would need 200 overlords to carry all those units)
You would still not be able to fit more than 255 baneling in it.
On May 18 2011 21:32 Hakker wrote: i cant believe people are actually complaining about this lol. Blizzard probably left it at 255 because in no real situation would there ever be more than 255 units trying to enter a nydus worm at once. It isn't half assed. They do the same thing in other games. In WoW for a long time the gold cap was 214768.36.47, because it was a 32 bit integer.
Theres no reason to spend developement time catering for situations that never arise in the game. Its the same as deleting the back of mountains that make up the scenery in a game. If its never going to be viewed theres no reason to keep it.
I am not complaining that the Nydus Worm has a unit and/or supply cap.
I am complaining that the status bar is so unnecessarily big that the total length will never get used, thus reducing its practical application in high-APM 1v1 games.
On May 18 2011 22:28 Noocta wrote: It's 255 because it's the maximum unit selection. Play a practice with zerg, make only zergling. You will not be able to select more than 255 zerglings at once.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/HERBKILLS/Screenshot2011-05-1805_02_01.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/HERBKILLS/Screenshot2011-05-1805_00_41.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/HERBKILLS/Screenshot2011-05-1805_06_07.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/HERBKILLS/Screenshot2011-05-1805_06_58.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/HERBKILLS/Screenshot2011-05-1805_30_58.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/HERBKILLS/Screenshot2011-05-1805_38_17.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/HERBKILLS/Screenshot2011-05-1806_21_32.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/HERBKILLS/Screenshot2011-05-1806_20_35.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/HERBKILLS/Screenshot2011-05-1806_27_36.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/HERBKILLS/Screenshot2011-05-1806_29_11.jpg)
