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On May 18 2011 05:13 StarStruck wrote:
Yes, only the winners will be sent to Code S. Xeris, I thought everything you said was blatantly obvious yet GOM doesn't seem to understand this. We know their intentions are good, but there are many reasons why many of the top foreigners will continue to pass on GOM's opportunities.
They don't necessarily not understand, it's just not a simple problem to solve. Making Code A prize money better would help a lot, but money doesn't grow on trees. I'm not sure there's enough money there to do it, while maintaining the Code S prestige.
Stuff like online Code A has pretty huge problems too...not least that lag to Korea is so bad that frankly no one would really qualify anyway.
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Great write-up Xeris, it's good to get the point of view from someone behind the scenes of one of the big teams. I agree with a lot of your points too.
It would be wonderful to see some big names from the foreigner community in Korea, but it just doesn't make sense logistically or economically for anybody that doesn't feel they have a sure shot at Code S (IdrA) to go through with it. Even then, being stuck in Korea for a month with only the one tournament might not make it worth it.
I'm not sure if you addressed that and I just missed it, but would adding more big tournaments in Korea help this problem? I.E. Giving players something to do if they get eliminated from the GSL early or during the downtime between matches. As it is, it's pretty unforgiving to be knocked out in the first round and have nothing to do but practice until the next season.
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Good post Xeris. Hopefully people who are new or didn't understand before will understand now.
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The top player of any nation who does not have code S already after columbus will get code S. (unless the top 3 have code S) I wonder if we'll see teams find the money to send a bunch of players to try and get that prize.
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I think an invite into code S would send a lot of players and Korean people into a rage, Code A is a proving ground to Code S and having a few foreigners go into Code S just because they're not Korean kinda sounds like special treatment, which i feel should not be the case.
How ever, i do feel that the winner of MLG could win a spot into a pro house that would benefit the player and also Gom trying to get foreigners into the GSL
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lol no, thats not the problem with Korea. Code A can't be online or that will lead to even more problems. Code A needs to have more prize money to make it worth the investment for non-koreans and there needs to be more smaller tourneys other than GSL for koreans and non-koreans alike.
lol foreigners always need to qualify for korean tourneys but not the other way around? what about the super tournament/GSL world, did foreigners need qualy for that? invitations for foreigners to Code S regular season which is a league not a tournament? lol. i guess you want invitations to GSTL too.
some cultures are so about free handouts and ppl not wanting to work hard to move up from a disadvantaged position. yeah sure you're gonna have to work harder than koreans to get where koreans are, live with it. no affirmative action, no welfare, no employment benefits, no1 to hold your hand, crawl up yourself from the bottom of the mountain and lay waste to korean corpses as you make your way to the top
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On May 18 2011 05:20 Xeris wrote:
Ah okay, I didn't know that 1st place (after Columbus) gets a Code S spot. BUT, I still don't think this is enough. After Columbus, you'll probably have 6-7 Koreans instead of 4. There is a high probability that a Korean will win MLG as long as Koreans are still attending. So the Code S spot could realistically go to a Korean every single season. Especially given that 1st gets into Code S, you could likely see a LOT of Koreans go just for the Code S chance (play for 1 month in Code A, or play for 3 days and get Code S).
It all depends how many of the players invited aren't in Code S, doesn't it? I mean, Bomber or Losira could well stomp all over MLG, but they don't get Code S since they're there already.."all" a foreigner has to do is place higher than the non-Code S Koreans. Still difficult, but I think eminently achievable.
I think in the end this means that "Code S" material players get Code S, no matter their nationality. If foreigners simply aren't good enough to compete in Code S, then that's a whole other matter.
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United States33706 Posts
pretty much entirely true D:
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On May 18 2011 05:24 coolcor wrote:
The top player of any nation who does not have code S already after columbus will get code S. (unless the top 3 have code S) I wonder if we'll see teams find the money to send a bunch of players to try and get that prize.
We might see a ton of Koreans going to MLG to try and get Code S. The more Koreans at MLG, the less chance a foreigner has of winning and getting Code S. However, I think having 30 Koreans at MLG would be fun :p
I do think more tournaments in Korea would possibly solve the problem. I think if Korea had all the monthly tournaments and mini LAN events so foreigners could have things to play in / money to win, it'd help a lot.
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Didnt know the korean pro houses were full, i guess that explains alot. Since most of Artosis's videos from the houses they say that theyre/were looking for foreign players.
It really is such a shame that so few foreigners are in Korea
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GOM are usually pretty smart about the changes they make, I'm sure they will think about something.
About the code A/S, I think the foreigner spots will be in closed circuit. (that mean no up and down for the loser of code S, he'll just get replaced with the next MLG winner or something like that, so that foreigners that lose will be able to just go back to their country, so that makes it a win/win situation : either they win and get money and incentive to stay, or they lose and go back directly, I'm speculating here but that's the only solution that make sense)
Online code A will never happen, GSL is LIVE, they don't want lag screen or anything silly happening imo. Or cheating.
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The full schedule for gomtv's leagues was already released LAST YEAR. It detailed every league, every GSTL, super tournament, prizes, etc. You know well ahead of time when the events were happening.
The major problem with Korea is simply: Korean players are too competitive for foreign players to make good money. Idra stayed in Korea for several seasons, never reaching the semi-finals. Outside of Korea he can bank on winning multiple tournaments and events easily. Simply put, Koreans > foreigners. All the other factors outside of absolute skill and ability to win are barriers that can be overcome. Idra was able to overcome them, but he still couldn't win.
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On May 18 2011 05:27 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 05:24 coolcor wrote:
The top player of any nation who does not have code S already after columbus will get code S. (unless the top 3 have code S) I wonder if we'll see teams find the money to send a bunch of players to try and get that prize. We might see a ton of Koreans going to MLG to try and get Code S. The more Koreans at MLG, the less chance a foreigner has of winning and getting Code S. However, I think having 30 Koreans at MLG would be fun :p I do think more tournaments in Korea would possibly solve the problem. I think if Korea had all the monthly tournaments and mini LAN events so foreigners could have things to play in / money to win, it'd help a lot.
Too bad there are practically no tournaments in Korea asides the GSL.
And it all boils down to The GOM TV monopoly.
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The only reason a foreigner would go to Korea to compete as of now is to fight for the prestige of winning / placing high in the toughest tournament in the world. There is absolutely no monetary incentives for a foreigner to go to Korea, since it is much easier to make money in the more frequent / less harrowing tournaments and weekly cups outside Korea. In theory, this situation can fix itself, since the higher money incentives outside Korea will drive up the competition there, until the skill : money ratio reaches a equilibrium both in Korea and outside Korea. Not saying that will actually happen, since there are a lot of other factors to consider.
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On May 18 2011 05:32 R3N wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 05:27 Xeris wrote:On May 18 2011 05:24 coolcor wrote:
The top player of any nation who does not have code S already after columbus will get code S. (unless the top 3 have code S) I wonder if we'll see teams find the money to send a bunch of players to try and get that prize. We might see a ton of Koreans going to MLG to try and get Code S. The more Koreans at MLG, the less chance a foreigner has of winning and getting Code S. However, I think having 30 Koreans at MLG would be fun :p I do think more tournaments in Korea would possibly solve the problem. I think if Korea had all the monthly tournaments and mini LAN events so foreigners could have things to play in / money to win, it'd help a lot. Too bad there are practically no tournaments in Korea asides the GSL. And it all boils down to The GOM TV monopoly.
Which may end up not being a monopoly now that Kespa and Blizz has struck a deal.
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It would be nice for foreign players if the prize pool for Code A was larger instead of a direct invite to Code S
Even more important I think, is there are not enough events in Korea.
In Korea, SC2, there is one major tournament, the GSL. For NA alone, we have NASL, IPL, MLG. And because NA is so large, there are a ton of online tournaments.
In korea, most of the population is located in Seoul, so there are not as many online tournaments.
Maybe because SC2 is so new, but SC1 generally has the proleague, OSL, MSL that is ongoing.
There just needs to be more events.
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The funny thing is, you think some korean would go to MLG on their own. Like they would pay 1800$ + 300$ hotel + expenses to win 5000$. Why don't you ask to MLG to up their prize pool so that koreans have incentive to come and play ?
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It seems like the real problem is that the Code A/S tournament is a month long. Spending a whole month to maybe get into Code S and make a couple thousand bucks is just not worth it to most people. People are flying all over the place to play in other tournaments but the difference with those are that they're short--a day or a weekend. If just the Code A was a week long (played near the end of Code S), I'm sure a lot of foreigners would try then.
On May 18 2011 05:26 Bluerain wrote:
some cultures are so about free handouts and ppl not wanting to work hard to move up from a disadvantaged position. yeah sure you're gonna have to work harder than koreans to get where koreans are, live with it.
Wow lets not bring racist comments into this, k?
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On May 18 2011 05:26 Bluerain wrote:
lol no, thats not the problem with Korea. Code A can't be online or that will lead to even more problems. Code A needs to have more prize money to make it worth the investment for non-koreans and there needs to be more smaller tourneys other than GSL for koreans and non-koreans alike.
lol foreigners always need to qualify for korean tourneys but not the other way around? what about the super tournament/GSL world, did foreigners need qualy for that? invitations for foreigners to Code S regular season which is a league not a tournament? lol. i guess you want invitations to GSTL too.
some cultures are so about free handouts and ppl not wanting to work hard to move up from a disadvantaged position. yeah sure you're gonna have to work harder than koreans to get where koreans are, live with it. no affirmative action, no welfare, no employment benefits, no1 to hold your hand, crawl up yourself from the bottom of the mountain and lay waste to korean corpses as you make your way to the top
I think this is a great point. Putting stuff online creates even more problems, especially for the way GSL does their broadcasting. It would be a horrible decision for GOM to do these things. The biggest problem with Korea doesn't lie with GOM, it lies with the fact there is nothing other than GOM.
The reason foreigners do so well financially in NA and Europe is because they can supplement their wages with lots of prize winnings. They have IEM, MLG, Dreamhack, TSL (though this is a more global thing), and those are only the BIG ones. There are a numerous other "smaller" tournaments with big prize pools, weekly, monthly and daily tournaments as well.
Korea on the other hand has the GSL. And to a lesser extent FXOpens, and Stars Wars, but those are few and far between. I think it's ridiculous to expect GOM to break their backs, because that's what it would be doing to them, to accommodate foreign teams and players. It's up to the korean starcraft scene to make it easier for foreigners to win money in Korea. If you can make the GSL you're pretty much set, but if you can't there needs to be something else for you to do to make money in the meantime.
If foreign teams want to go to Korea I don't think onus should be on GOMTV to care of them. That's their own responsibilities. That's what TL did, and that's what WE did. They reached out and made connections to make sure their players would be taken care of and had opportunities to succeed. That being said, the only way to support yourself if you're a pro in korea and you're not in Code S is to be sponsored right now, and that's a shame, but the reality.
Maybe with the new Kespa and Blizzard/Gretech agreement their will be some opportunity to expand SC2, and create more opportunities to support oneself through gaming. It's really up to Koreans now.
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I agree with most of what all the top pros have said that they wouldn't waste there time for a code a spot, however it is a great opportunity for someone that wants to go to korea or was planning on already making an attempt to get into code a.
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EPT
