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On August 10 2011 20:34 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 14:52 ronpaul012 wrote:
I got the double hate from idra today. I'm 1 retarded because I play protoss and all protoss players are retarded according to him. 2. I'm only a lowly diamond player so i'm shit at this game. (yes I realize I'm not a pro but i like to think I'm somewhat competent.)
Why do people dislike this guy? He really, really hate protoss yet zerg AND terrans are doing great VS protoss at the moment. I really don't know why he's still on the same path as he was back in the imbalanced video with artosis months ago.
Hes got nothing else to work with and hes got to keep up the image of complaining about everything
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On August 10 2011 14:52 ronpaul012 wrote:
I got the double hate from idra today. I'm 1 retarded because I play protoss and all protoss players are retarded according to him. 2. I'm only a lowly diamond player so i'm shit at this game. (yes I realize I'm not a pro but i like to think I'm somewhat competent.)
Why do people dislike this guy?
You are shit at this game. I'm diamond aswell, and you can say what you want, but we're shit lol. He goes wrong about p playing wrong tho, if you're trying to convince a big mass of people that is def. not he way to go...
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Lol IdrA still can't let go off protoss all-ins....at some point he should realize he is beating a quite literally dead horse
He got what he wanted, P is in danger of being extinct in korea. No need to rub salt in our wounds even further.
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On August 10 2011 20:39 Philip2110 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 20:34 karpo wrote:On August 10 2011 14:52 ronpaul012 wrote:
I got the double hate from idra today. I'm 1 retarded because I play protoss and all protoss players are retarded according to him. 2. I'm only a lowly diamond player so i'm shit at this game. (yes I realize I'm not a pro but i like to think I'm somewhat competent.)
Why do people dislike this guy? He really, really hate protoss yet zerg AND terrans are doing great VS protoss at the moment. I really don't know why he's still on the same path as he was back in the imbalanced video with artosis months ago. Hes got nothing else to work with and hes got to keep up the image of complaining about everything
wait what? people finally starting to realize there's actually no logic in idras whine, it's just that - whine cos of his own shortcomings.
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On August 10 2011 22:17 sopas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 20:39 Philip2110 wrote:On August 10 2011 20:34 karpo wrote:On August 10 2011 14:52 ronpaul012 wrote:
I got the double hate from idra today. I'm 1 retarded because I play protoss and all protoss players are retarded according to him. 2. I'm only a lowly diamond player so i'm shit at this game. (yes I realize I'm not a pro but i like to think I'm somewhat competent.)
Why do people dislike this guy? He really, really hate protoss yet zerg AND terrans are doing great VS protoss at the moment. I really don't know why he's still on the same path as he was back in the imbalanced video with artosis months ago. Hes got nothing else to work with and hes got to keep up the image of complaining about everything wait what? people finally starting to realize there's actually no logic in idras whine, it's just that - whine cos of his own shortcomings.
I actually can't even listen to him talk anymore. 
I just skip and / or walk away from any interviews or talking he does because it is so predictable it's hard to believe he is getting paid to say it. Other Zergs have shown there are a huge number of untested styles that can give Protoss nightmares.
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On August 10 2011 23:08 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 22:17 sopas wrote:On August 10 2011 20:39 Philip2110 wrote:On August 10 2011 20:34 karpo wrote:On August 10 2011 14:52 ronpaul012 wrote:
I got the double hate from idra today. I'm 1 retarded because I play protoss and all protoss players are retarded according to him. 2. I'm only a lowly diamond player so i'm shit at this game. (yes I realize I'm not a pro but i like to think I'm somewhat competent.)
Why do people dislike this guy? He really, really hate protoss yet zerg AND terrans are doing great VS protoss at the moment. I really don't know why he's still on the same path as he was back in the imbalanced video with artosis months ago. Hes got nothing else to work with and hes got to keep up the image of complaining about everything wait what? people finally starting to realize there's actually no logic in idras whine, it's just that - whine cos of his own shortcomings. I actually can't even listen to him talk anymore. I just skip and / or walk away from any interviews or talking he does because it is so predictable it's hard to believe he is getting paid to say it. Other Zergs have shown there are a huge number of untested styles that can give Protoss nightmares.
Yeah i listened to the Protoss discussion from the lastest Lo3 and i just couldn't keep listening. Everything is so extremely black and white that there can be no real discussion.
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Idra's whine is comedic at this point, and his fanclub is lolz "I always felt he was the smartest progamer, and provides strong arguments."
Four months ago when zerg made roaches and hydras and A moved into colossi and forcefields
Idra - "This race is broken, zerg is underpowered, there is no answer nerf protoss even artosis says so"
Protoss - "Maybe you should try something else, maybe not A move roaches and hydras into colossi?"
"Nope nerf toss.
Four months later "Terran is raping protoss now..."
Idra "Protoss players are just retarded, every one of you blow, learn to play"
Yeah, all protoss just blow. Except that MC is 10 times the player you are and he gets repetedly stomped by terran. Keep up your hypocritical whining, we all know it makes you fans(money)
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On August 10 2011 20:42 ZaaaaaM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 14:52 ronpaul012 wrote:
I got the double hate from idra today. I'm 1 retarded because I play protoss and all protoss players are retarded according to him. 2. I'm only a lowly diamond player so i'm shit at this game. (yes I realize I'm not a pro but i like to think I'm somewhat competent.)
Why do people dislike this guy? You are shit at this game. I'm diamond aswell, and you can say what you want, but we're shit lol. He goes wrong about p playing wrong tho, if you're trying to convince a big mass of people that is def. not he way to go...
Seriously lol at people being butthurt about his comment that everyone is shit at this game. I'm masters and at least I realize every game how shit I am. :p
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If you angry protosses didn't understand idra / were too upset to listen to what he had to say, here is a summary.
1. Protoss doesn't need to risk his win by doing a coin toss attack in the midgame.
2. If protoss want to win, they play turtle, cannon up and take their third. The cannons nullify any runbys with lings.
3. Late game protoss death ball is unbeatable, so there is no logic in moving out at 140 food.
4. A+move deathball and win.
Idras opinions on gamebalance were:
1. Hellions are imbalanced because theyre 100 minerals, and have devastating attack. Zerg can blindcounter them, but then they are stuck with roaches that do nothing against a terran army.
2. Ghosts are imbalanced because they are so cheap in gas cost - unlike reavers and stormdrops that were powerful units, but came at a big cost.
3. Protoss deathball is imbalanced, because there is nothing that can beat it once u reach it.
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On August 10 2011 23:38 Legio wrote:
2. Ghosts are imbalanced because they are so cheap in gas cost - unlike reavers and stormdrops that were powerful units, but came at a big cost.
I think they meant hellions when they discussed this. BF hellions have the same effect on a mineral line that reavers had in BW, yet they are cheap as dirt.
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On August 10 2011 23:17 Jinivus wrote:
Four months ago when zerg made roaches and hydras and A moved into colossi and forcefields
Idra - "This race is broken, zerg is underpowered, there is no answer nerf protoss even artosis says so"
Protoss - "Maybe you should try something else, maybe not A move roaches and hydras into colossi?"
"Nope nerf toss.
You do realize that 4 months ago, fungal was not buffed yet and that protoss still had the amulet right? It's no like zerg had a lot of other choices than go hydra roach corruptor.
On August 10 2011 23:17 Jinivus wrote:
Four months later "Terran is raping protoss now..."
Idra "Protoss players are just retarded, every one of you blow, learn to play"
Yeah, all protoss just blow. Except that MC is 10 times the player you are and he gets repetedly stomped by terran. Keep up your hypocritical whining, we all know it makes you fans(money)
Repetedly stomped by terran? He lost one game against mvp, bomber and noblesse who went for the 1-1-1 all-in. And lost 3-4 against puma... That's hardly getting stomped.
And terrans might be raping protoss now in Korea but the top terrans are for the most part a lot better than their protoss counterparts. Exept for MC of course.
The same goes for the zerg korean. Nestea,loisira,DRG are just way better than the protoss they won against.
IdrA might be whining like it's his last day on earth, but his concerns about game design (more than those about balance) are still valid.
It's stupid that terrans can so easily deny scouting early game and all-in when the zerg doesn't commit enough to defence. And it's also stupid that when the terran doesn't do enough damage early-mid game and faces the late-game broodlord, muta, infestor army, he gets rolled.
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On August 11 2011 00:04 Diavlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 23:17 Jinivus wrote:
Four months ago when zerg made roaches and hydras and A moved into colossi and forcefields
Idra - "This race is broken, zerg is underpowered, there is no answer nerf protoss even artosis says so"
Protoss - "Maybe you should try something else, maybe not A move roaches and hydras into colossi?"
"Nope nerf toss.
You do realize that 4 months ago, fungal was not buffed yet and that protoss still had the amulet right? It's no like zerg had a lot of other choices than go hydra roach corruptor. Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 23:17 Jinivus wrote:
Four months later "Terran is raping protoss now..."
Idra "Protoss players are just retarded, every one of you blow, learn to play"
Yeah, all protoss just blow. Except that MC is 10 times the player you are and he gets repetedly stomped by terran. Keep up your hypocritical whining, we all know it makes you fans(money) Repetedly stomped by terran? He lost one game against mvp, bomber and noblesse who went for the 1-1-1 all-in. And lost 3-4 against puma... That's hardly getting stomped. And terrans might be raping protoss now in Korea but the top terrans are for the most part a lot better than their protoss counterparts. Exept for MC of course. The same goes for the zerg korean. Nestea,loisira,DRG are just way better than the protoss they won against. IdrA might be whining like it's his last day on earth, but his concerns about game design (more than those about balance) are still valid. It's stupid that terrans can so easily deny scouting early game and all-in when the zerg doesn't commit enough to defence. And it's also stupid that when the terran doesn't do enough damage early-mid game and faces the late-game broodlord, muta, infestor army, he gets rolled.
Exactly my point, and now toss are in a similar position against terran and zerg, where we have no reliable way to put pressure without going all in and stargate and gate timings have been figured out, and against terran have no safe builds that put us in a good spot, if not behind. Now that toss is in a similar position Idra just calls all the protoss players bad, instead of calling for buffs like I know damn well he would if he played protoss.
It'd be like people just calling every zerg player fucking awful when they lost to the deathball, and you know what? Toss got nerfed and zerg got buffed, don't see why it shouldn't be any different this time around. (PvT more than PvZ)
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Incontrol and painuser have my support for what they said in the show
and idra reached a whole new level of how many nonsenses i've heard in one hour
i wish so hard he was playing protoss
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On August 11 2011 00:13 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 00:04 Diavlo wrote:On August 10 2011 23:17 Jinivus wrote:
Four months ago when zerg made roaches and hydras and A moved into colossi and forcefields
Idra - "This race is broken, zerg is underpowered, there is no answer nerf protoss even artosis says so"
Protoss - "Maybe you should try something else, maybe not A move roaches and hydras into colossi?"
"Nope nerf toss.
You do realize that 4 months ago, fungal was not buffed yet and that protoss still had the amulet right? It's no like zerg had a lot of other choices than go hydra roach corruptor. On August 10 2011 23:17 Jinivus wrote:
Four months later "Terran is raping protoss now..."
Idra "Protoss players are just retarded, every one of you blow, learn to play"
Yeah, all protoss just blow. Except that MC is 10 times the player you are and he gets repetedly stomped by terran. Keep up your hypocritical whining, we all know it makes you fans(money) Repetedly stomped by terran? He lost one game against mvp, bomber and noblesse who went for the 1-1-1 all-in. And lost 3-4 against puma... That's hardly getting stomped. And terrans might be raping protoss now in Korea but the top terrans are for the most part a lot better than their protoss counterparts. Exept for MC of course. The same goes for the zerg korean. Nestea,loisira,DRG are just way better than the protoss they won against. IdrA might be whining like it's his last day on earth, but his concerns about game design (more than those about balance) are still valid. It's stupid that terrans can so easily deny scouting early game and all-in when the zerg doesn't commit enough to defence. And it's also stupid that when the terran doesn't do enough damage early-mid game and faces the late-game broodlord, muta, infestor army, he gets rolled. Exactly my point, and now toss are in a similar position against terran and zerg, where we have no reliable way to put pressure without going all in and stargate and gate timings have been figured out, and against terran have no safe builds that put us in a good spot, if not behind. Now that toss is in a similar position Idra just calls all the protoss players bad, instead of calling for buffs like I know damn well he would if he played protoss. It'd be like people just calling every zerg player fucking awful when they lost to the deathball, and you know what? Toss got nerfed and zerg got buffed, don't see why it shouldn't be any different this time around. (PvT more than PvZ)
no offense but thats what zergs were saying like 2months ago despite of infestors being buffed they stil claimed pvz is unwinnable (bah idra still says so), give it a time and stop whining like bitches everytime MC gets knocked out from gsl which btw had nothing to do with balance he just got outplayed.
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On August 11 2011 00:19 constantqt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 00:13 Jinivus wrote:On August 11 2011 00:04 Diavlo wrote:On August 10 2011 23:17 Jinivus wrote:
Four months ago when zerg made roaches and hydras and A moved into colossi and forcefields
Idra - "This race is broken, zerg is underpowered, there is no answer nerf protoss even artosis says so"
Protoss - "Maybe you should try something else, maybe not A move roaches and hydras into colossi?"
"Nope nerf toss.
You do realize that 4 months ago, fungal was not buffed yet and that protoss still had the amulet right? It's no like zerg had a lot of other choices than go hydra roach corruptor. On August 10 2011 23:17 Jinivus wrote:
Four months later "Terran is raping protoss now..."
Idra "Protoss players are just retarded, every one of you blow, learn to play"
Yeah, all protoss just blow. Except that MC is 10 times the player you are and he gets repetedly stomped by terran. Keep up your hypocritical whining, we all know it makes you fans(money) Repetedly stomped by terran? He lost one game against mvp, bomber and noblesse who went for the 1-1-1 all-in. And lost 3-4 against puma... That's hardly getting stomped. And terrans might be raping protoss now in Korea but the top terrans are for the most part a lot better than their protoss counterparts. Exept for MC of course. The same goes for the zerg korean. Nestea,loisira,DRG are just way better than the protoss they won against. IdrA might be whining like it's his last day on earth, but his concerns about game design (more than those about balance) are still valid. It's stupid that terrans can so easily deny scouting early game and all-in when the zerg doesn't commit enough to defence. And it's also stupid that when the terran doesn't do enough damage early-mid game and faces the late-game broodlord, muta, infestor army, he gets rolled. Exactly my point, and now toss are in a similar position against terran and zerg, where we have no reliable way to put pressure without going all in and stargate and gate timings have been figured out, and against terran have no safe builds that put us in a good spot, if not behind. Now that toss is in a similar position Idra just calls all the protoss players bad, instead of calling for buffs like I know damn well he would if he played protoss. It'd be like people just calling every zerg player fucking awful when they lost to the deathball, and you know what? Toss got nerfed and zerg got buffed, don't see why it shouldn't be any different this time around. (PvT more than PvZ) no offense but thats what zergs were saying like 2months ago despite of infestors being buffed they stil claimed pvz is unwinnable (bah idra still says so), give it a time and stop whining like bitches everytime MC gets knocked out from gsl which btw had nothing to do with balance he just got outplayed.
It's not just because MC got knocked out, it's that toss is like 4-17 vs terran this season, also with a horrible winrate vs zerg. Even when the "unbeatable" deathball was out it wasn't even close to that.
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On August 11 2011 00:13 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 00:04 Diavlo wrote:On August 10 2011 23:17 Jinivus wrote:
Four months ago when zerg made roaches and hydras and A moved into colossi and forcefields
Idra - "This race is broken, zerg is underpowered, there is no answer nerf protoss even artosis says so"
Protoss - "Maybe you should try something else, maybe not A move roaches and hydras into colossi?"
"Nope nerf toss.
You do realize that 4 months ago, fungal was not buffed yet and that protoss still had the amulet right? It's no like zerg had a lot of other choices than go hydra roach corruptor. On August 10 2011 23:17 Jinivus wrote:
Four months later "Terran is raping protoss now..."
Idra "Protoss players are just retarded, every one of you blow, learn to play"
Yeah, all protoss just blow. Except that MC is 10 times the player you are and he gets repetedly stomped by terran. Keep up your hypocritical whining, we all know it makes you fans(money) Repetedly stomped by terran? He lost one game against mvp, bomber and noblesse who went for the 1-1-1 all-in. And lost 3-4 against puma... That's hardly getting stomped. And terrans might be raping protoss now in Korea but the top terrans are for the most part a lot better than their protoss counterparts. Exept for MC of course. The same goes for the zerg korean. Nestea,loisira,DRG are just way better than the protoss they won against. IdrA might be whining like it's his last day on earth, but his concerns about game design (more than those about balance) are still valid. It's stupid that terrans can so easily deny scouting early game and all-in when the zerg doesn't commit enough to defence. And it's also stupid that when the terran doesn't do enough damage early-mid game and faces the late-game broodlord, muta, infestor army, he gets rolled. Exactly my point, and now toss are in a similar position against terran and zerg, where we have no reliable way to put pressure without going all in and stargate and gate timings have been figured out, and against terran have no safe builds that put us in a good spot, if not behind. Now that toss is in a similar position Idra just calls all the protoss players bad, instead of calling for buffs like I know damn well he would if he played protoss. It'd be like people just calling every zerg player fucking awful when they lost to the deathball, and you know what? Toss got nerfed and zerg got buffed, don't see why it shouldn't be any different this time around. (PvT more than PvZ)
stargate and gate timing might have been figured out but the deathball is still very much alive. When the protoss turtle, they are still very hard to deal with. But a lot a protoss just keep on going for the early aggression and get either denied or rolled over. Either way they get behind in the late game and it doesn't end well.
Again this is a "poor" game design issue. You can't give protoss a way to harrass or a buff in gateway units so that they can still go for the gate timings when the deathball is still that hard to deal with.
In a perfect world/ game, all races can compete with each other at every stage of the game and capitalize on the advantages they get by winning fights or macro in the early stages.But that's not the case in starcraft 2.
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Terran's just OP and no Terran player has the balls to admit it.
-) Terrans are the Kings of Minerals (thx to MULES) and is the ONLY race that has 2 units only costing minerals
-) Terran is by far the most cost efficient race
-) Drop-/Healships in every legit build they can do
-) Ghosts with EMP & Snipe from the get-go
-) Stim & Concussive Shells cost almost nothing
No other race is that bad at admitting their own imbalance like Terrans are.
@IdrA:
Yes, harsh words, but they didn't offend me and appart from that he was right on some parts.
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On August 11 2011 00:14 Joseph123 wrote:
Incontrol and painuser have my support for what they said in the show
and idra reached a whole new level of how many nonsenses i've heard in one hour
i wish so hard he was playing protoss
He would never do that then he won't have any excuses for his own incompetence anymore.
Anyway P is fine imo we just need some time and maybe a small buff to stimulate changes in how P plays like the reduced gas cost for ghost.
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On August 10 2011 23:38 Legio wrote:
If you angry protosses didn't understand idra / were too upset to listen to what he had to say, here is a summary.
1. Protoss doesn't need to risk his win by doing a coin toss attack in the midgame.
2. If protoss want to win, they play turtle, cannon up and take their third. The cannons nullify any runbys with lings.
3. Late game protoss death ball is unbeatable, so there is no logic in moving out at 140 food.
4. A+move deathball and win.
Idras opinions on gamebalance were:
1. Hellions are imbalanced because theyre 100 minerals, and have devastating attack. Zerg can blindcounter them, but then they are stuck with roaches that do nothing against a terran army.
2. Ghosts are imbalanced because they are so cheap in gas cost - unlike reavers and stormdrops that were powerful units, but came at a big cost.
3. Protoss deathball is imbalanced, because there is nothing that can beat it once u reach it.
Ok so from that logic Protoss should only ever move out when Protoss is maxed because otherwise they will lose.
BUT... IdrA thinks the turtle to 200 food is imba and should be more easily beatable (it is already beatable this isnt May). So if Bliz do buff Zerg and make it easier to beat the 200 Protoss death ball Protoss will never win because this according to IdrA was the only way Protoss could win before?
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There's a pretty large timing window that occurs if you are a protoss that tries to turtle up and compete in macro when the zerg is ahead by about 50 supply. Its just how the races are designed so you cant let them get to 70 drones while you're on 40 and slowly building up. This style only really still works for protoss on a map like shakuras that you can defend efficiently on with fewer units. The deathball style fell out of favor when zergs started hitting that timing consistently. A second reason is certain tactics/styles just hammer down on the deathball in efficiently (baneling bombs especially, but also infestors are nice).
If IdrA played protoss he would complain that protoss is too weak and harp on the race's shortcomings... its his personality and it has nothing to do with game balance really.
If there's one thing I'd like to see Protoss players do its move away from these stargate follow-ups. If your goal is the raw power of blink stalkers don't go for a risky answer to a fast 3rd hatch. Stargate followups are paying for themselves less and less nowadays and I would like to see some well-placed cannons used to hold roach-ling all-ins rather than relying on 1 void ray. What probably happened was that those all-ins were so common and the 1 VR was the proper way to hold it (as shown by MC). I think if we can come up with a different way to hold the all-in without investing heavily in a tech we dont want or in too many cannons, it would streamline the protoss economy and allow them to stay more even with the zerg for longer... or even pressure back in the mid-game before they feel ready to stop droning. Turtling is NOT the answer though... at least not this form of turtling idra suggests.. then again wtf does idra know about protoss anyways.
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EPT
