EPTIf my CEO would spend 1 hour blaming his faults on someone else while frightening him of destroying all his relations, I would be fucking worried, because no matter how you formulate it, no matter who leaked the information, it's your fucking fault deal with it and grow some balls.
[Show] Inside The Game - Official Thread - Page 424
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
FaRess
Tunisia937 Posts
If my CEO would spend 1 hour blaming his faults on someone else while frightening him of destroying all his relations, I would be fucking worried, because no matter how you formulate it, no matter who leaked the information, it's your fucking fault deal with it and grow some balls. | ||
|
nemonic
132 Posts
On January 17 2013 03:52 Brawny wrote: Kaitlyn What are you even talking about? Is this some kind of subtle jab at EG for recruiting Stephano and Jaedong...? Or are you trying to imply that EG effectively just means themselves when they say "pretty much everyone"? I'm going to assume the second point because the first one is frankly stupid. Alright, THIS time it's EG that was mainly hurt by the link, but what if this continues and say...some huge announcement by Complexity is leaked? Maybe ones by IM or MVP or ST? It already happened once with TL and Snute. It does affect everyone. Except the only reason anyone knew about it beforehand was because Jaedong expressed a desire to join a foreign team and then he later said EG. Good job knowing the history. The business model sucks? Are you this naive? Every team makes nearly all their money from advertisements and sponsers. I have no clue where you randomly get the a hundred people from but even with 20 people it's extremely difficult not to have a friend of a friend of a friend tell some media(Like Slasher) and then it's up to the media to not be idiotic tabloid junkies and just reporting easy pieces with no journalistic integrity. I like to think Slasher is a bit better than FOX or CNN. A scapegoat is not a scapegoat when the scapegoat is at fault. Nobody has ever questioned the fact that a team tries to make money out of advertisements but comparing that to regular sponsorships relationships of normal sports is just silly. It only shows how underdeveloped E-Sports as a whole is, because it has to rely on such income to a large extend. The ad-model has its limitations as we can clearly see in this example. Furthermore you can easily draw from the discussion that at least the team, sponsors, plus several tournaments and leagues are well informed of such upcoming trades. The number is obviously way larger than 20 or how do you explain thow these announcement keep getting pushed out each time if only 20 people are informed? On January 17 2013 03:52 Brawny wrote: Yes, because Slasher was professional at all. He dodged nearly every question. Almost any other person in this situation would get just as frustrated if the person kept dodging and cherrypicking the argument. People need to realize that EG is the idea of a successful team. A team can't fucking run on skill alone. Look at what happened to TSL. What does Slasher's reaction ahve anything to do with Garfield's? Garfield acted like an offended child and not like the owner of serious E-Sports team. But I don't want to overstress this. Sometimes people are just emotional and stuff like this happens. Still it shouldn't happen in his position because I fear it casts a poor light on EG. | ||
|
dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
| ||
|
SXGCoil
United States341 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:11 FaRess wrote: Something I've always admired with the different team leaders I worked with is there ability to take the blame. Leading is about responsibilities, not the power it comes with. If my CEO would spend 1 hour blaming his faults on someone else while frightening him of destroying all his relations, I would be fucking worried, because no matter how you formulate it, no matter who leaked the information, it's your fucking fault deal with it and grow some balls. Take what blame? It's Slasher's fault for being a tabloid junkie. One can tell you've never worked in a situation up to a hundred have to keep quiet. In that situation it's damn near impossible to stop any leak of information and Slasher is the one who decided to write some two bit article on a leak to benefit only himself. So he doesn't have to "grow some balls" as you so brusquely put it. | ||
|
dr.fahrenheit
Austria101 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:04 Brawny wrote: Freedom of the press is a right in the god damn american constitution and it's not an "internet" or "international" right. This isn't a matter of censoring; it's a matter of "stop leaking everything or we'll just stop talking to you". This is almost as bad as how people try to defend shitposting with "freedom of speech". freedom of the press is not only a right in the god damn american constitution but also a really, really woldwide and well known and applied international concept (and indicator of liberty).... might wanna read up on that... | ||
|
Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:07 Brawny wrote: So you're saying that there's no point in even trying to keep announcements secret because they'll always end up being leaked. And who exactly would be the people "negatively affected" in this case? Have you ever tried to put shit back in a horse ? People within the industry have repeatedly posted in this thread about negotiations with player signings involving multiple teams, and many people are in the know. There is no "keeping secrets" involved. It's not a fucking secret. Each of the teams who lost in the bidding knows they didn't sign the player, even if they don't necessarily know who did. This is the point where EG's announcement of announcement is particularly ironic for me. If these competitor teams didn't know who won the bidding before the announcement announcement, they certainly will after. So, if your financial success is tied to one of these competitive teams which lost the bidding for Jaedong or Stephano because of EG's deeper pockets, is it that difficult to see that steps to reduce those deep pockets would be in their competitive interest ? If EG's pockets are less deep because they lost potential revenue because you leaked info and prevented their ability to profit from it, then that's good for EG's competition the next time they are bidding against EG for a player. To answer your question, which I find to demonstrate IdrA's earlier point, the people "negatively affected" by EG's success are EG's competitors. Duh. | ||
|
Imbu
United States903 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:16 dAPhREAk wrote: is it not possible to use NDAs in the contract negotiations? But it really isn't. Imagine that there were two teams that were interested in signing a player. What interest is there for the second team to not tell someone "Oh, we didn't manage to get player Y so that means he's going to team X". In larger industries, such as baseball, there are enough teams that will bid for a "star player". But in the current esports environment, there are so few teams that can bid for top players that everyone involved will inevitably know where a player will go. Without some type of higher level organization like KeSPA, this will always happen. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:09 Kaitlin wrote: I could see the validity of this point if, and only if, Alex had told Slasher the information unofficially as part of their personal relationship. However, it sure seems like Slasher got the information from other sources, and therefore Alex's expectation that Slasher shouldn't do his job so that Alex can better do his, is inappropriate. It may not be a lot of fun when jobs come between personal relationships, but it's called being professional. Just because these people play a game for a living doesn't mean everything about it should be fun. Many competitors in sports are friends outside the competitive environment, but that doesn't mean they relent on their professional duties to their teams. I won't say that Alex's argument is great, but he is trying to make the point to Slasher that his reporting it making it harder for EG to make money. I have seen how Slasher responds to these claims for a while now and he is pretty dismissive of them, claiming he is helping out. That argument is pretty weak, or at least misleading. A better response would "That maybe true, but I don't care about your income or if your team makes money. Thats not my job and you can't expect me to," However, Slasher does not say that unless forced to, because he is friends with the team members and he might as well say "Idra, Geoff, I don't are if you two make money or how your team preforms." He tries to make the argument that he is helping out everyone by reporting on this stuff, which is not alway the case. He can't have it both ways. | ||
|
dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:19 Imbu wrote: But it really isn't. Imagine that there were two teams that were interested in signing a player. What interest is there for the second team to not tell someone "Oh, we didn't manage to get player Y so that means he's going to team X". In larger industries, such as baseball, there are enough teams that will bid for a "star player". But in the current esports environment, there are so few teams that can bid for top players that everyone involved will inevitably know where a player will go. Without some type of higher level organization like KeSPA, this will always happen. if there was a NDA, the second team wouldn't know what other teams were bidding for the player. | ||
|
Imbu
United States903 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:22 dAPhREAk wrote: if there was a NDA, the second team wouldn't know what other teams were bidding for the player. Hm that is true. If all the organizations involved agreed to a NDA with the player and those involved, then it's possible that leaks such as these will be less frequent. Though I'm still not convinced that after a organization lost in a bidding war they have any interest in not talking about this with their friends, and the same problem would still occur. | ||
|
Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:22 dAPhREAk wrote: if there was a NDA, the second team wouldn't know what other teams were bidding for the player. EG effectively blows this possibility up when they make their patented announcement of announcements. NDA or no NDA, they've just told any other teams negotiating with a player, who recently found out that player signed with some other unidentified team, that they are that unidentified team that signed the player. | ||
|
IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:08 Integra wrote: Let's put it this way, what kind of community do we want? OR rather, what obligations and rights do we want our community to have. The above things you just stated are great things and totally true, There is a downside to what Slasher is doing, as there is to practically everything. However your example can also be applied to the real world. Journalism in general costs our society allot of money, allot of business related could go much faster and smoother if the journalistic world just kept their mouth shut, but what society would that give us, just look at China. Journalism has always operated under certain costs but most people, in the western world at least, feel that that cost is justified cause we believe in things like free speech and such. I for one would like to believe that we actually can have free journalism and that our community is strong enough to give journalists like slasher the ability to exercise this right and that their free speech actually benefits this community as a whole and that the temporary setbacks which may happen actually are worth it. the cost is justified because we need freedom of information to prevent wrongdoing or to let the public know when it's happening. but how many articles do you see about organizations not paying players on time, or at all? or about all the shady shit going on in korea? or any of the other shit that freedom of the press would actually be useful for. no, instead you have people posting headlines that will be public information within a matter of days a bit early so they can siphon off a portion of the viewership to justify their own jobs. spend that time reporting on things that need to be reported on, or at least spend it productively on the existing headlines instead of dragging others down with your lazyness. | ||
|
BlackPearl
United States13 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:16 Brawny wrote: Take what blame? It's Slasher's fault for being a tabloid junkie. One can tell you've never worked in a situation up to a hundred have to keep quiet. In that situation it's damn near impossible to stop any leak of information and Slasher is the one who decided to write some two bit article on a leak to benefit only himself. So he doesn't have to "grow some balls" as you so brusquely put it. You fully contradict yourself in this post. So what are you trying to say, Either its going to be leaked and theres nothing to do about it, or that people are wrong for posting leaked information to be the first instead of person B getting all the money from leaking it? | ||
|
dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:27 Imbu wrote: Hm that is true. If all the organizations involved agreed to a NDA with the player and those involved, then it's possible that leaks such as these will be less frequent. Though I'm still not convinced that after a organization lost in a bidding war they have any interest in not talking about this with their friends, and the same problem would still occur. let me explain more succinctly. team A and team B bid for player X. team A makes player X (and all other agents) sign a NDA saying that they cannot disclose that team A is bidding for player x. team b (and the rest of the world) will never know that team a was bidding, and thus, team b will have nothing to talk about other than the fact that they lost the bidding war. | ||
|
Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:29 IdrA wrote: the cost is justified because we need freedom of information to prevent wrongdoing or to let the public know when it's happening. but how many articles do you see about organizations not paying players on time, or at all? or about all the shady shit going on in korea? or any of the other shit that freedom of the press would actually be useful for. no, instead you have people posting headlines that will be public information within a matter of days a bit early so they can siphon off a portion of the viewership to justify their own jobs. spend that time reporting on things that need to be reported on, or at least spend it productively on the existing headlines instead of dragging others down with your lazyness. Perhaps EG should start wagging the dog. If you don't want reporters to report on your announcement and ruin your big reveal, give them some information about teams not paying their players or some of the shady shit going on in korea. Don't complain that reporters aren't reporting about others when you aren't willing to provide information while at the same time complaining that they are reporting when others provide information about you. | ||
|
SXGCoil
United States341 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:16 dr.fahrenheit wrote: freedom of the press is not only a right in the god damn american constitution but also a really, really woldwide and well known and applied international concept (and indicator of liberty).... might wanna read up on that... Read up on imaginary internet rights, yep got it. Not to mention this isn't even an issue of censorship unless you want to be just like sensationalist tabloids. You fully contradict yourself in this post. So what are you trying to say, Either its going to be leaked and theres nothing to do about it, or that people are wrong for posting leaked information to be the first instead of person B getting all the money from leaking it? Sigh, I'm saying that it's up to the various media in esports to not be tabloid junkies reporting everything they hear regardless of consequences. | ||
|
Imbu
United States903 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:31 dAPhREAk wrote: let me explain more succinctly. team A and team B bid for player X. team A makes player X (and all other agents) sign a NDA saying that they cannot disclose that team A is bidding for player x. team b (and the rest of the world) will never know that team a was bidding, and thus, team b will have nothing to talk about other than the fact that they lost the bidding war. Ah I see. I agree then, after this, all the teams are probably going to start adapting to this model. It's surprising that this hasn't already been standard in that case. But as a lot of people mention, esports is still pretty young, and one can optimistically look at this as a sign the scene is growing. | ||
|
dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:28 Kaitlin wrote: EG effectively blows this possibility up when they make their patented announcement of announcements. NDA or no NDA, they've just told any other teams negotiating with a player, who recently found out that player signed with some other unidentified team, that they are that unidentified team that signed the player. well, if you're providing the community information from which it can be determined who you are bidding for, i dont think they would require a NDA in the first place. also, announcements of announcements are for the purpose of causing speculation and hype, and i dont think EG would be upset that people figure it out and sources (not subject to a NDA) reveal their information. the NDA, however, will protect EG until the announcement of announcement is made though. | ||
|
IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On January 17 2013 04:32 Kaitlin wrote: Perhaps EG should start wagging the dog. If you don't want reporters to report on your announcement and ruin your big reveal, give them some information about teams not paying their players or some of the shady shit going on in korea. Don't complain that reporters aren't reporting about others when you aren't willing to provide information while at the same time complaining that they are reporting when others provide information about you. obviously not an exclusively eg problem, one of the main points of the show was that while this hurts us eg can take it, especially with announcements like stephano and jaedong that garner more than enough interest even without the surprise aspect of the announcement. but something like snute, and even more so as you move to lower tier organizations and players, it becomes a bigger and bigger problem. not once did anyone complain that people focused too much on eg. | ||
|
Aulisemia
United States123 Posts
Would you react the same if a CEO of Citibank or Shell came out and chastised the media for not cooperating with their monetary interests? Unbelievable that Alex is able to even utter this garbage. | ||
| ||
