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I believe this to be a valid thread so it needs to have a solid amount of responses. A lot of times we end up with these huge balance threads that are pages upon pages. Everyone has a bias. I believe we need to find out the TL bias. We act like TL is a valid representation of the sc2 community. That's why we come here and post our opinions on balance and patches. It is important to know if you are reading a thread and have a lot of QQ by a specific race, what the TL bias is.
This would be nice to know when you feel like you are seeing a lot of QQ. Personally I feel Zerg players QQ the most but maybe thats because TL has mostly zerg players. Who knows though? Maybe zerg players just post the most. No way to know without data. That's why this is for science.
So..post what race you play. However! Try not to just pick the race you play. Pick the race you have are biased with. Maybe you play random but have a bias for zerg, then don't pick random..pick zerg. Most people will pick the race they play but some might not so keep that in mind.
EDIT: Adding this to the OP to help people understand the poll choices.
The point is not to figure out what you play. Its to figure out what TL has a bias towards. If you play it, you will generally have a bias to it.
There really is no way for you to play a specific race and say you are not bias to it. It's impossible. You are obviously bias because you play it all the time. Your opinion is based on your experiences playing that race. If most of TL plays zerg then their opinion is mostly based on playing Zerg. If you think that has no bearing on how TL feels about patch notes or tournament results, you are dead wrong.
While its true that there are people that play random and don't have a bias, they are much more rare. Also someone who has a bias but plays something else is also pretty low. Like artosis has a bias for zerg even though he plays toss now.
Poll: What race is your bias?Zerg (536) 44% Protoss (350) 29% Terran (321) 27% 1207 total votes Your vote: What race is your bias? (Vote): Zerg (Vote): Protoss (Vote): Terran
Also for fun:
Poll: What race do you hate?Protoss (573) 52% Terran (307) 28% Zerg (232) 21% 1112 total votes Your vote: What race do you hate? (Vote): Protoss (Vote): Terran (Vote): Zerg
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Why is there no "I don't hate any race" even when I'm biased to some race?
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Or people could just stop whining.
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Feel like this fits in with the second poll.
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LoL at the comic.. That describe`s the scene perfectly.
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ahaha the comic is so perfect.
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lol @ comic and also love the portal reference
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I love both Zerg/Terran, however I still voted for Terran because I mainly play it at the moment. And o yea... I hate Protoss, just like everyone.
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One of the, "Which Race Do You Hate?" questions should be asked once a month. The volatility of people on this forum is hilarious to me.
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On May 03 2011 05:41 Blacktion wrote:Feel like this fits in with the second poll. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Ko14X.jpg)
Switch the zerg with the toss and you got it
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all the zergs are lurking forums afraid of ladder, protoss ingame playing pvp
:D
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"I believe this to be a valid thread so it needs to have a solid amount of responses."
What exactly are you saying here?
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Switch the zerg with the toss and you got it Haha no way, people love to hate on toss. Ive got a ton of these comics, I made them when i was bored because I accidentally left my collection of royal wedding pictures I was gonna photoshop on my old pc when I was home for Easter.
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On May 03 2011 05:51 busbarn wrote: all the zergs are lurking forums afraid of ladder, protoss ingame playing pvp
:D
i wouldnt be surprised if this were the case, as far as i can tell my z friends and i spend more time on tl than the p's
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On May 03 2011 05:52 Tschis wrote:Show nested quote +"I believe this to be a valid thread so it needs to have a solid amount of responses." What exactly are you saying here?
All I'm saying there is if it doesn't get enough responses, then it's not valid. Trying to increase the sample size is all.
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Don't hate any race. Voted for my bias tho.
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Thats some funny comic there ^^
I voted for Terran first and Protoss the second. I've said many times in TL that I hate Protoss tho it was the first race I played in SC2 and its not a whine or something, my TvP is way better than my TvZ so its just that I dont like the current style used by P.
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On May 03 2011 05:29 FreezerJumps wrote: Or people could just stop whining.
Yeah, I agree. Most balance complaints have about 8000 counterarguments, and it really is a waste of time.
It would be funny to know how many protoss players also picked protoss as the race they hate because of how sucky PvP is lol.
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I am bias towards Z, as I am Z player. but ZvZ is too hard, so I also put Z as most hated O.o
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soo.. what if I am random and I do so since I like all three races? :/
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Keeping the thread light hearted!
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/PIfnM.png) Quick game, guess which race has been beating me lately! + Show Spoiler +Its zerg, whoever invented infestor-broodlord armies needs to be shot, so hard to deal with, especially if its followed with an ultra switch. My rapid EMPs deal with protoss easymode, i just love to hate on protoss 
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Needs a "I don't hate any race" option.
Seriously.
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how about a "I hate any race my opponent is playing" option ;D
as for bias.... zerg, since I play zerg...
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I dont hate any race, just dislike toss 
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On May 03 2011 05:49 TALegion wrote: One of the, "Which Race Do You Hate?" questions should be asked once a month. The volatility of people on this forum is hilarious to me.
I have hated terran since the inception of the game nothing has changed.. i stand by my original hatred
Also... @ Blacktion "...My rapid EMPs deal with protoss easymode, i just love to hate on protoss "
That is possibly the dumbest thing I have ever heard.. you essnetially said "protoss is such easy mode.. all i have to do is spam emp and i beat them easily"
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On May 03 2011 06:12 Drey wrote:I dont hate any race, just dislike toss  ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Wi7Jy.jpg?6711)
well played lol
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Don't hate any races. So bias towards zerg but didn't respond to the hate poll.
Should have had a hate equally option.
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I am most biased toward protoss. That's my main race though. I don't really hate any race at all I like to go against all of them.
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I don't hate any race, not now that I've started playing random anyway. Although i admit i only ever rage on Protoss players on ladder.
And in ZvP matchups I'm absolutely biased for Zerg, hard not to be though, I'm having it way easier with PvZ then ZvP ^^. Doesn't mean it's valid though.
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Why does there have to be a bias, why not add in a 4th option - I have no bias. Not everyone complains about balance.
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I play Terran, the hardest match up is TvZ, but I still have no appreciation for Protoss players.
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Someone had to do it 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TWd2O.png)
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On May 03 2011 06:26 Zorgaz wrote:Someone had to do it  ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TWd2O.png)
funny that u think "1-a t rclick s rclick s rclick s" counts as micro
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On May 03 2011 05:41 Blacktion wrote:Feel like this fits in with the second poll. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Ko14X.jpg) HAHAHHAHAHA, oh god I couldn't agree any more with this comic.
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Am i the only person who voted that they hated their mirror?
If i am i'd feel like such a traitor...........
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On May 03 2011 06:29 Roxy wrote:
funny that u think "1-a t rclick s rclick s rclick s" counts as micro
Whoa now.... wait a minute....
You are telling me I can just press "s" to stutter step my bio instead of a-clicking!??!?
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Who uses S to stutter step >.< ?
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Poll needs options for No Preference, I don't hate any race, it keeps the game interesting and fresh when new builds come out, even if they seem unstoppable at first glance .
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omg, the second poll (results) made me laugh so hard ^^
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On May 03 2011 06:29 Roxy wrote:funny that u think "1-a t rclick s rclick s rclick s" counts as micro
Funny how your asuming I'm a Terran player. Would have been true a week ago tho .
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On May 03 2011 06:33 DooMDash wrote: Who uses S to stutter step >.< ?
Masters-level Protoss players, obviously.
I voted for Zerg on both, because ZvZ is the worst matchup ever, and I think a lot of Zergs can agree. I haven't seen a gg in one of my ZvZ's in ages, it's such a frustrating and fickle matchup.
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On May 03 2011 06:37 corpuscle wrote:Masters-level Protoss players, obviously. I voted for Zerg on both, because ZvZ is the worst matchup ever, and I think a lot of Zergs can agree. I haven't seen a gg in one of my ZvZ's in ages, it's such a frustrating and fickle matchup.
What league are you in?
It is fairly safe to hold an FE on most maps, and anything beyond that point isn't really very frustrating or fickle imo. Of course if you open pool first every game ZvZ will be shit.
It's always funny when my opponents complain about ZvZ and then proceed to cheese like they don't have a choice in the matter.
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On May 03 2011 05:49 TALegion wrote: One of the, "Which Race Do You Hate?" questions should be asked once a month. The volatility of people on this forum is hilarious to me. Release: Terran Post Roach buff(before people realized how to use forcefields really well): Zerg Now: Protoss Next month: ???
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I play toss and I find PvP very boring, so I voted toss:p considering the matchup
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TvZ is a pain in the ass.. so id say Zerg. Ive been shuffling with random and T so i cant hate any race all too much
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I play Terran, am biased towards Terran, but will also cheer for Zergs depending on the match-up. Like FruitDealer in season 1, or Losira right now, it's hard not to root for people dominating with the "weak" race.
I hate Protoss. On occasion I'll root for White Ra or MC, but otherwise I wish every PvP ended in a double loss.
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Where's random? I don't hate any race.
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Why is there "hate" option? It seems to me, that everyone who hates any race, can't objectively talk about balance. Some MUs could be broken, but you shouldn't hate the race.
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Poll is confusing. I play protoss but I think protoss is the best race hands down. I believe that protoss is hugely superior in PvT and I think PvZ is very hard. I think protoss is best race.
I think it is impossible for Z to beat T but ZvP is still manageable. PvP is just dumb.
Masters
I chose protoss as bias anyways
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I'm not surprised by the results of the second thread. I play toss and I get the rage, I hate playing against Protoss to.
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On May 03 2011 05:41 Blacktion wrote:Feel like this fits in with the second poll. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Ko14X.jpg)
I've seen comics like this before... where can I get this meme-generator so I can make my own version? I don't know what it's called.
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No option for Random?
END DISCRIMINATION AGAINST RANDOM PLAYERS NOW!!!
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This poll is a waste of time without a Random option...some players have no bias.
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What league are you in?
It is fairly safe to hold an FE on most maps, and anything beyond that point isn't really very frustrating or fickle imo. Of course if you open pool first every game ZvZ will be shit.
It's always funny when my opponents complain about ZvZ and then proceed to cheese like they don't have a choice in the matter.
I'm in plat. I call the matchup fickle because it's so easy to lose your whole army from a misclick, and it's really easy to get hit with an army at just the wrong time. It feels like I'm on a razor's edge the entire time, and I just don't like it.
I've actually been doing a lot of early sling/bling shenanigans in my ZvZ and I'm having tons of success with it, because it feels way safer to just not have to worry about their aggression, and most people can't hold it if they go hatch first. Even though ZvZ is probably my best matchup, I don't like it because I picked zerg to be a passive macro player, not play quick games that are decided by whose banelings get a good hit.
And yes, I realize that this sort of makes me one of the people who "cheeses and complains," but I think it's perfectly reasonable to be upset by the fact that my most reliable build right now is "cheesy." It's the same as Protoss players that hate 4gating but feel like they have to in PvP because they aren't comfortable holding an offensive 4gate without 4 gates of their own.
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On May 03 2011 07:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I've seen comics like this before... where can I get this meme-generator so I can make my own version? I don't know what it's called.
Its not from a meme generator, just save the pic, open it in photoshop/paint or whatever you have, delete the existing text and insert new text. The font i used there is arial western.
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On May 03 2011 06:59 ReketSomething wrote: Poll is confusing. I play protoss but I think protoss is the best race hands down. I believe that protoss is hugely superior in PvT and I think PvZ is very hard. I think protoss is best race.
I think it is impossible for Z to beat T but ZvP is still manageable. PvP is just dumb.
Masters
I chose protoss as bias anyways
How can you say Z can't beat T. The matchup is by far the most balanced matchup (Not counting mirrors.)
And isn't it kinda odd being biased for a race you think is the ''strongest race'' currently?
I myself always tend to cheer for the ''weaker'' race, maybe just me.
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I'm Zerg-biased and my secret QQ is I want more units with abilities so I get jealous of T and P. Wouldn't it be great if Hydras could stim or lings could blink?? Burrow is fun though.
Anyone remember in the beta when corruptors had the goop-spell? That was nasty good fun, going corruptors felt awesome instead of just a stepping stone to bro lords.
And there is nothing I hate more than realizing there is a second gate proxied somewhere nearby and zealots stream in while my pool is still building. I hate that even more than void ray harass: I think all Zerg players have come to understand the Zerg-bug language so we know when the queen spawns she is actually screaming, "PLUG THE VOID!!" UGH, TOSS.
So yeah, I voted Z-Bias, P-Hate :p
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On May 03 2011 06:34 Trentelshark wrote:Poll needs options for No Preference, I don't hate any race, it keeps the game interesting and fresh when new builds come out, even if they seem unstoppable at first glance  .
I agree with this definately. I'm not voting in either poll because I don't have any bias that I'm aware of at least.
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unless you play random, you have a bias. Also if you do play random, you could still have a bias. Also the ratio of random people with no bias to people who play 1 race has got to be a lot lower than some of you are making it out to be
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Big surprise.. TL is full of Idra fan-boy (hence his fan page) who hate protoss! Even though protoss has received only nerfs and zerg has received only buffs the past few months.
Basically when a zerg hates on a protoss for being OP this is what he is really saying "How dare you figure out how to play your race after being nerfed! fag op toss!
I know for a fact if IdrA didn't complain about balance so much, all of this protoss hate wouldn't exist (to this large of an extent).
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On May 03 2011 07:07 Blacktion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 07:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I've seen comics like this before... where can I get this meme-generator so I can make my own version? I don't know what it's called. Its not from a meme generator, just save the pic, open it in photoshop/paint or whatever you have, delete the existing text and insert new text. The font i used there is arial western.
Ah thanks! I've seen that comic so frequently that I figured it was a meme heh
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I play zerg! And I hate playing ZvZ so ye Loving and truly hate to play Terran. Just can't do it
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On May 03 2011 07:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 07:07 Blacktion wrote:On May 03 2011 07:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I've seen comics like this before... where can I get this meme-generator so I can make my own version? I don't know what it's called. Its not from a meme generator, just save the pic, open it in photoshop/paint or whatever you have, delete the existing text and insert new text. The font i used there is arial western. Ah thanks! I've seen that comic so frequently that I figured it was a meme heh Yeah i saw quite a few of them knocking about, figured i could make some decent SC comics out of it. Takes like 30 seconds to change the text so theres no real need for a meme generator.
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I don't really hate any race in particular. I dislike playing against specific playstyles for each race really....but that's about it.
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I think zvt has been figured out, whenever I see a zvt game I know what to expect and I know that there is a decent chance zerg might win, but whenever I see zvp I just don't know what crazy new strategy the zerg will try, and I know before the game starts that the zerg's chances of winning are slim.
by the way, "random" is not a race, "random" is an excuse for a mediocre player to cheese the hell out of another play by abusing the hidden race advantage, whenever I face a random player I know not to respect him and expect the worst half assed cheeses, I then proceed to dance my units after I beat the crap out him.
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On May 03 2011 07:15 EternaL_9 wrote: Big surprise.. TL is full of Idra fan-boy (hence his fan page) who hate protoss! Even though protoss has received only nerfs and zerg has received only buffs the past few months.
Basically when a zerg hates on a protoss for being OP this is what he is really saying "How dare you figure out how to play your race after being nerfed! fag op toss!
I know for a fact if IdrA didn't complain about balance so much, all of this protoss hate wouldn't exist (to this large of an extent).
So I understand you don't like Idra or his fans? Ok, thanks for stopping bye. 
I was gonna say I hated protoss, but really I only hate forcefields.
Fucking things piss me off so much...
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The problem is, statistically, you're introducing a bias by creating a poll on a forum. Only forum readers, poll taking people will take your poll, introducing a bias.
What you need to do to remove all bias is message a % of people that play sc2 for a result =D
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i have no bias towards any race. they all have ups and downs, cons and pros.
zerg vs protoss is the only tricky place. at first i thought deathball was too much as z. then i realized ultra/roach/hydra/infestor can rip a part a typical deathball. then i came to realize ultra/roach/hydra/infestor is on par with immortal/voidray/colossus/HT/zealot/sentry/stalker.
its just tricky for zerg to macro properly to be on par with p's tech and quantity.
if anything, i like MU than any race. PvZ as P 1st, ZvT as Z second, TvP as T 3rd, ZvZ last with TvT. (i've always liked PvZ since bw, 1/0 zealot vs lings are awesome)
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IMHO, ZvT is the most balanced non-mirror matchup. I feel like overall, excluding the occasional double-bunker-ramp-block, the only way that a player will win would be if he outplayed his opponent.
TvP is probably right up there with ZvT, but in order for the Terran player to win they would have to either deal significant damage in the early-midgame or completely outplay his opponent in the lategame.
ZvP is..... You've probably already seen it.
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On May 03 2011 07:38 TheBlueMeaner wrote: I think zvt has been figured out, whenever I see a zvt game I know what to expect and I know that there is a decent chance zerg might win, but whenever I see zvp I just don't know what crazy new strategy the zerg will try, and I know before the game starts that the zerg's chances of winning are slim.
by the way, "random" is not a race, "random" is an excuse for a mediocre player to cheese the hell out of another play by abusing the hidden race advantage, whenever I face a random player I know not to respect him and expect the worst half assed cheeses, I then proceed to dance my units after I beat the crap out him.
thanks for generalizing us random players in a negative light 
i for one, when asked "race?" i answer truthfully. most of the time i just keep it simple and type t, z, or p at the beginning of the game.
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On May 03 2011 07:39 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 07:15 EternaL_9 wrote: Big surprise.. TL is full of Idra fan-boy (hence his fan page) who hate protoss! Even though protoss has received only nerfs and zerg has received only buffs the past few months.
Basically when a zerg hates on a protoss for being OP this is what he is really saying "How dare you figure out how to play your race after being nerfed! fag op toss!
I know for a fact if IdrA didn't complain about balance so much, all of this protoss hate wouldn't exist (to this large of an extent). So I understand you don't like Idra or his fans? Ok, thanks for stopping bye.  I was gonna say I hated protoss, but really I only hate forcefields. Fucking things piss me off so much...
No I love IdrA as a player, I just think that when a budding zerg player sees his zerg kingcomplaining about protoss, he too will complain wherever he can.
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I am a 100% pure random player, and I do have a bias towards terran and zerg. However I do not favor one over the other.
I plan random to learn all 3 races not to cheese like most players assume randoms always are.
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I don't hate any race, but Protoss always seems to cheese me the most (I play Terran). Between cannon rushes and proxy gateways, I feel they are the most annoying race (although mutas are the most annoying unit).
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OP needs a "what race do you play: Z/T/P/R" option to see if it's just that random players are all biased towards zerg. Otherwise it's left as a confounding factor. Of course, it's a little too late for that now.
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On May 03 2011 07:15 EternaL_9 wrote: Big surprise.. TL is full of Idra fan-boy (hence his fan page) who hate protoss! Even though protoss has received only nerfs and zerg has received only buffs the past few months.
Basically when a zerg hates on a protoss for being OP this is what he is really saying "How dare you figure out how to play your race after being nerfed! fag op toss!
I know for a fact if IdrA didn't complain about balance so much, all of this protoss hate wouldn't exist (to this large of an extent).
Nah, its not just Grack and the Zergs. A lot of Terrans hate Protoss as well.
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This is interesting, especially given that Protoss is only doing okay against Zerg according to this chart: + Show Spoiler +
The source, for anyone wondering, is this. The Korean version of this chart shows Protoss at a winrate of only 30%. I wish people would cut the Protoss hate already. With the possible exception of PvT, it's not justified in the slightest. People need to learn more aggressive tactics already.
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Those comics were absolutely hilarious!
Being a Zerg player, I do have to show my bias towards that race. Primarily because I do think it is a more complex race in terms of timings/decision making/general strategy which makes every matchup it is in extremely volatile. However, I can also understand some of the difficulties that terrans encounter, (in both ZvT and Zvp) - particularly in late game ZvT with high templar partnered with colossi.
Unsurprisingly therefore, I selected Protoss as the race I dislike most. Current playstyles of Protoss, (outside of the mirror matchup) are generally just boring and focus too much on 'ball' play. That's obviously not to say there aren't great Protoss games - there certainly are - but I don't feel they are as common as in other matchups.
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Not surprised to see that most hated race is protoss.
I have a feeling that all the people who say they hate T and Z,...are protoss players.
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I attempt to offer a serious explanation to the OPs post in hopes that people will see why a thread like this is flawed in terms of factuality and any sort of statistical meaning
+ Show Spoiler +i dont understand what you expect to get out of this thread and let me explain why. i'm always open to discussion regarding sc2 and peoples philosophy behind it. Therefore im willing to chime in on this thread's subject. I like how you make a direct notion toward the inevitable bias that is seen regarding the races in SC2. As it seems, sometimes people hold their opinions a little too close to them. as if how they feel is something that they are obligated to cherish, as well as be respected by the holder of said belief's peers. thats why balance discussions can go south fast. people are so ingrained in their own perspectives that its difficult to accept another's as something valid or even logical. thus the problem of bias arises.
So this thread at the least is honest about favoritism. However the way the OP has gone about it is a clusterfuck of irony and juxtaposition. The thread title states "for science" yet the subject matter is completely unscientific. I'll even include a definition of the scientific method as written on merriam-webster.com to further my point.
: principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses
you've made your hypothesis, despite lack of direction you are trying to prove something with this. and thats where the science ends here. you attempt to collect data with your poll but the procedure is to loaded that surely the results will yield nothing substantial. You justify the poll by saying it will help understand what the TL bias is. Immediately after said statement you declare your own bias. which believe it or not, effects the way people respond to a question. If you were being objective you'd simply ask, "what race do you play" after your hypothesis. I'll simply quote your next line in hopes you're smart enough to understand why its a flawed statement.
"So..post what race you play. However! Try not to just pick the race you play."
After I answered the first loaded question i was wondering where this study of yours was going. As soon as i read the second poll i didnt bother even considering the question. "What race do you hate" is an absurd way to seek data. because once again, the question presupposes a certain mindset in your research participants.
I would conclude my analysis of your study in saying this; You're hypothesis goes unproven because it failed before it got off the ground. You made an attempt to record bias of TL members regarding sc2 races, using a bias method of doing so. The methods and procedure of carrying out said experiment are more confusing than the purpose itself. "choose your racial bias" is not specific and can mean pretty much anything. "The race im good with" "the race i think is overpowered" "the race i find appealing but dont play because i lack the skill" are all acceptable responses to having a bias. the question of what race you hate is just as non-specific while still being incredibly bias in nature. for instance i dont hate any race, so i didnt answer that question. i saw one of your participants picked his own race, zerg because of zvz. do you see why you must be as specific and non-subjective as possible?
So some advice for your next poll. give less of your opinion when searching for results on the subject of bias. obviously if your poll is on your favorite food or favorite unit in the game, feel free to share and express your opinion. but when you take a poll attempting to prove something "for science" be scientific about it. keep it short and sweet. the more concise the better when trying to prove something through data. you let the results speak for themselves. have a clear hypothesis using the "if...then" format you learned back in 6th grade. and make sure you have some sort of correlation in mind from the data.
TL:DR on account of faulty scientific methods this poll should not be taken seriously as statistically significant. However most of the responses thus far have been worth reading based on the merit of humor. especially the cartoons. of course thats just my bias talking
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United States204 Posts
Maybe Zerg players QQ the most because Zerg is underpowered and they are constantly losing to players of significantly inferior skill.
did that not cross your mind?
if 70% of the Zerg community is complaining about being weak, what does that tell you?
and, no, personally I think TERRAN is actually the most broken race in the game - for reasons I will not get into here. I have argued, for some time now, that PROTOSS vs ZERG is actually a pretty dynamic matchup. Perhaps the Colossus needs a -1 or -2 range nerf, but aside from that its balanced.
However, TERRAN vs ZERG has been in Terran's favor, statistically, since October - and has not changed. I fail to see how players who can 2 port banshee/4 rax scv all-in/or win the game with a handful of mineral-only hellions have earned their points. This is why ladder race appropriation is irrelevant.
The real problem here is that Zerg is missing some key ingredients to a comprehensive race; there are far too many ways to exploit Zerg weakness, especially at the higher levels. The true test of racial balance is not ladder, but tournament results.
And mark my words, Zerg will not win another major tournament (read: GSL), until there is a significant buff in their favor. I guarantee it.
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The second question says for fun. It clearly is only there...for fun. I dont see a problem with asking people to put down their bias. Its pretty straight forward. All im trying to find out is what the bias is of the people who post their opinions here.
If you watch fox news, you know you are getting the republican side. I know that going in. I want to know going in, what bias are you getting here on TL. If you have no bias then you dont need to vote. That might've been a good choice because if the majority of people don't have a bias then thats important. However, if you play one race its an automatic bias.
If anything is wrong with this poll is asking people to recognize their own bias. Thats the only real drawback.
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I always find myself rooting for zerg, however at the same time I hate them and wish to see them lose and make the fanbois cry.
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On May 03 2011 09:08 TENTHST wrote: Maybe Zerg players QQ the most because Zerg is underpowered and they are constantly losing to players of significantly inferior skill.
did that not cross your mind?
if 70% of the Zerg community is complaining about being weak, what does that tell you?
and, no, personally I think TERRAN is actually the most broken race in the game - for reasons I will not get into here. I have argued, for some time now, that PROTOSS vs ZERG is actually a pretty dynamic matchup. Perhaps the Colossus needs a -1 or -2 range nerf, but aside from that its balanced.
However, TERRAN vs ZERG has been in Terran's favor, statistically, since October - and has not changed. I fail to see how players who can 2 port banshee/4 rax scv all-in/or win the game with a handful of mineral-only hellions have earned their points. This is why ladder race appropriation is irrelevant.
The real problem here is that Zerg is missing some key ingredients to a comprehensive race; there are far too many ways to exploit Zerg weakness, especially at the higher levels. The true test of racial balance is not ladder, but tournament results.
And mark my words, Zerg will not win another major tournament (read: GSL), until there is a significant buff in their favor. I guarantee it. Might want to rethink that considering right now Nestea and Losira are the two large favorites to win GSL
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Everyone hated terran at launch cause they were good so they got nerfed and toss was bad (save for 4gate) for a long time and now toss is good so everyone hates it. the cycle is just gunna keep going for a long time. Balance should be less QQ and hate and mathematical/ empirical. Cause its getting very old now.
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On May 03 2011 09:08 TENTHST wrote: Maybe Zerg players QQ the most because Zerg is underpowered and they are constantly losing to players of significantly inferior skill.
did that not cross your mind?
if 70% of the Zerg community is complaining about being weak, what does that tell you?
and, no, personally I think TERRAN is actually the most broken race in the game - for reasons I will not get into here. I have argued, for some time now, that PROTOSS vs ZERG is actually a pretty dynamic matchup. Perhaps the Colossus needs a -1 or -2 range nerf, but aside from that its balanced.
However, TERRAN vs ZERG has been in Terran's favor, statistically, since October - and has not changed. I fail to see how players who can 2 port banshee/4 rax scv all-in/or win the game with a handful of mineral-only hellions have earned their points. This is why ladder race appropriation is irrelevant.
The real problem here is that Zerg is missing some key ingredients to a comprehensive race; there are far too many ways to exploit Zerg weakness, especially at the higher levels. The true test of racial balance is not ladder, but tournament results.
And mark my words, Zerg will not win another major tournament (read: GSL), until there is a significant buff in their favor. I guarantee it.
if you still lose to 2port banshee then you obviously don't know how to play zvt very well.
it's an all-in strat, of course it will be devastating if you're not ready for it. the fact that you don't know how to hold it off doesnt make a race op. its so easy to scout and see coming, even if you dont necessarily see the starports.
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On May 03 2011 09:11 Irrelevant wrote: I always find myself rooting for zerg, however at the same time I hate them and wish to see them lose and make the fanbois cry.
TvZ is very frustrating, but i see the balance in the match up. I know that both Zerg and Terrans feel frustrated in the Match up. But personally i really hate Protoss, especially since i hate marauders and never make them. I Make more BCs and Ghosts then i do Marauders. And in TvP I go BioMech/Mech builds, and when Toss just walks into my tank lines after i harass and kill all his workers,He comes out winning, mainly due to Collosi, and then files mass Gateway into my base before i can reinforce -_-.
Yeah i hate Protoss.
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On May 03 2011 09:08 TENTHST wrote: Maybe Zerg players QQ the most because Zerg is underpowered and they are constantly losing to players of significantly inferior skill.
did that not cross your mind?
if 70% of the Zerg community is complaining about being weak, what does that tell you?
and, no, personally I think TERRAN is actually the most broken race in the game - for reasons I will not get into here. I have argued, for some time now, that PROTOSS vs ZERG is actually a pretty dynamic matchup. Perhaps the Colossus needs a -1 or -2 range nerf, but aside from that its balanced.
However, TERRAN vs ZERG has been in Terran's favor, statistically, since October - and has not changed. I fail to see how players who can 2 port banshee/4 rax scv all-in/or win the game with a handful of mineral-only hellions have earned their points. This is why ladder race appropriation is irrelevant.
The real problem here is that Zerg is missing some key ingredients to a comprehensive race; there are far too many ways to exploit Zerg weakness, especially at the higher levels. The true test of racial balance is not ladder, but tournament results.
And mark my words, Zerg will not win another major tournament (read: GSL), until there is a significant buff in their favor. I guarantee it.
You lose to 2-Port -_-. Queens and Drones, Queens and Drones get a spore for each base. Same goes against Hellions. Queens and Drones. Except you get spines instead.
Nobody should outright lose to a 2 port if your half decent. I 2 port at times and really its just a harass heavy build that takes map control in order to expand by pinning the opponent. And from experience it only really works well against Toss. Since you will have a huge mineral dump afterwards and Marine Banshee is pretty good against Toss. If you snipe the Collosi that is -_-.
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On May 03 2011 09:14 Irrelevant wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 09:08 TENTHST wrote: Maybe Zerg players QQ the most because Zerg is underpowered and they are constantly losing to players of significantly inferior skill.
did that not cross your mind?
if 70% of the Zerg community is complaining about being weak, what does that tell you?
and, no, personally I think TERRAN is actually the most broken race in the game - for reasons I will not get into here. I have argued, for some time now, that PROTOSS vs ZERG is actually a pretty dynamic matchup. Perhaps the Colossus needs a -1 or -2 range nerf, but aside from that its balanced.
However, TERRAN vs ZERG has been in Terran's favor, statistically, since October - and has not changed. I fail to see how players who can 2 port banshee/4 rax scv all-in/or win the game with a handful of mineral-only hellions have earned their points. This is why ladder race appropriation is irrelevant.
The real problem here is that Zerg is missing some key ingredients to a comprehensive race; there are far too many ways to exploit Zerg weakness, especially at the higher levels. The true test of racial balance is not ladder, but tournament results.
And mark my words, Zerg will not win another major tournament (read: GSL), until there is a significant buff in their favor. I guarantee it. Might want to rethink that considering right now Nestea and Losira are the two large favorites to win GSL
Yeah he must have forgotten that being considered favorites means Zerg isn't UP. Those two things clearly have a direct correlation.
You should save these sorts of statements for when Zergs win the GSL, not just have people rooting for them. Anyways, I'm just hoping they don't get cheesed out.
On May 03 2011 09:24 b0urne420 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 09:08 TENTHST wrote: Maybe Zerg players QQ the most because Zerg is underpowered and they are constantly losing to players of significantly inferior skill.
did that not cross your mind?
if 70% of the Zerg community is complaining about being weak, what does that tell you?
and, no, personally I think TERRAN is actually the most broken race in the game - for reasons I will not get into here. I have argued, for some time now, that PROTOSS vs ZERG is actually a pretty dynamic matchup. Perhaps the Colossus needs a -1 or -2 range nerf, but aside from that its balanced.
However, TERRAN vs ZERG has been in Terran's favor, statistically, since October - and has not changed. I fail to see how players who can 2 port banshee/4 rax scv all-in/or win the game with a handful of mineral-only hellions have earned their points. This is why ladder race appropriation is irrelevant.
The real problem here is that Zerg is missing some key ingredients to a comprehensive race; there are far too many ways to exploit Zerg weakness, especially at the higher levels. The true test of racial balance is not ladder, but tournament results.
And mark my words, Zerg will not win another major tournament (read: GSL), until there is a significant buff in their favor. I guarantee it. if you still lose to 2port banshee then you obviously don't know how to play zvt very well. it's an all-in strat, of course it will be devastating if you're not ready for it. the fact that you don't know how to hold it off doesnt make a race op. its so easy to scout and see coming, even if you dont necessarily see the starports.
I see Zerg players at the very top of the ladder lose to 2 port banshee every now and then. It's just a really unforgiving strat. If the Zerg didn't prepare for it or has queens caught out of position its over.
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i'd like to hear a correct, unbiased reason why p is op compared to z. because many, many of the QQ are from just playing poorly(not reacting correctly) or being annoyed by force fields.
and from my experience, i've had little problem facing deathballs with ultra/infestor/+ mixture, the tricky part is getting to that mixture(waiting for both infestor upgrades to finish at the same time tech'ing to hive).
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scientific nitpickings and all else aside from my earlier post. id say my biased is everyone will have their own opinion on the game. and even if i felt balance was an issue in sc2 right now. i understand crying about those things will get me no where. blizzard is working to balance the game over time. and i think they're doing a damn good job at that. if you notice people all seem to have differentiating feelings on the races in this game. but i know i have never lost a game and felt that my opponents race or my own were solely to blame. i know i can always play better and that perfection is an illusion. no one will ever be perfect at sc2. you can get damn close, but never perfect.
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On May 03 2011 09:08 TENTHST wrote: Maybe Zerg players QQ the most because Zerg is underpowered and they are constantly losing to players of significantly inferior skill.
did that not cross your mind?
if 70% of the Zerg community is complaining about being weak, what does that tell you?
and, no, personally I think TERRAN is actually the most broken race in the game - for reasons I will not get into here. I have argued, for some time now, that PROTOSS vs ZERG is actually a pretty dynamic matchup. Perhaps the Colossus needs a -1 or -2 range nerf, but aside from that its balanced.
However, TERRAN vs ZERG has been in Terran's favor, statistically, since October - and has not changed. I fail to see how players who can 2 port banshee/4 rax scv all-in/or win the game with a handful of mineral-only hellions have earned their points. This is why ladder race appropriation is irrelevant.
The real problem here is that Zerg is missing some key ingredients to a comprehensive race; there are far too many ways to exploit Zerg weakness, especially at the higher levels. The true test of racial balance is not ladder, but tournament results.
And mark my words, Zerg will not win another major tournament (read: GSL), until there is a significant buff in their favor. I guarantee it.
Baha, I have to laugh at ZvT still being considered Terran favoured. I'm a shit-tier diamond Zerg, and even I can see how infestors fully negating bio, whilst also maintaining utility against virtually any other unit compistion pushes the balance in favour of the Zerg. Sure, it isn't an insurmountable obstacle, but quite like how it takes far better micro to deal with blue flame hellions with only zerglings, it takes far better control to maintain usefulness of marines when infestors come into play.
Also, though Terran can do a lot of strange, abusive all-ins or pressure... if they -don't- do those, they'll likely lose straight up. Terran macro pales in comparison to that of an unhindered zerg, so any pressure could sort of be viewed as a reverse all-in. To claim that the matchup is favoured towards terran is silly... and this is coming from a guy who killed 16 hellions at the cost of 6 drones and a handful of zerglings throughout the course of a game and -STILL- lost.
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That comic is great :p, but there should be a second protoss player so he can beat up the first one :s I as a protoss player hate protoss the most lol
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On May 03 2011 09:08 TENTHST wrote: Maybe Zerg players QQ the most because Zerg is underpowered and they are constantly losing to players of significantly inferior skill.
did that not cross your mind?
if 70% of the Zerg community is complaining about being weak, what does that tell you?
and, no, personally I think TERRAN is actually the most broken race in the game - for reasons I will not get into here. I have argued, for some time now, that PROTOSS vs ZERG is actually a pretty dynamic matchup. Perhaps the Colossus needs a -1 or -2 range nerf, but aside from that its balanced.
However, TERRAN vs ZERG has been in Terran's favor, statistically, since October - and has not changed. I fail to see how players who can 2 port banshee/4 rax scv all-in/or win the game with a handful of mineral-only hellions have earned their points. This is why ladder race appropriation is irrelevant.
The real problem here is that Zerg is missing some key ingredients to a comprehensive race; there are far too many ways to exploit Zerg weakness, especially at the higher levels. The true test of racial balance is not ladder, but tournament results.
And mark my words, Zerg will not win another major tournament (read: GSL), until there is a significant buff in their favor. I guarantee it.
Ban please, posts like this derail threads and piss me off
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it doesnt help Zergs that they go 14 hatch everygame which is incredibly risky and they complain of cheese/rushes if every toss went nexus first they would QQ until the game was rebalanced for them too i suppose
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The community is fickle if you did this poll GSL S1 and pre reaper nerf it would be T 99% hated. If Z gets a buff and they start winning and doing very well it will be Z hated. I think there are some problems with Z but this threads meaning is completely redundant. This is just pointless finger pointing and not touching on Why Z players have been QQing
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On May 03 2011 09:08 TENTHST wrote:
The real problem here is that Zerg is missing some key ingredients to a comprehensive race; there are far too many ways to exploit Zerg weakness, especially at the higher levels. The true test of racial balance is not ladder, but tournament results.
And mark my words, Zerg will not win another major tournament (read: GSL), until there is a significant buff in their favor. I guarantee it.
the first statement i think i can agree with but the second is already proved wrong! + Show Spoiler +idra won IPL, sure not the greatets starting players but still a very sold set of players in the later rounds!
ima a toss player and dident vote on the hate part. what is it to hate, play with what u got and play to win!
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I always wondered why TL was so proportionally Zerg heavy. They don't like playing as much??
random fighting
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As a protoss, I now know what terrans used to feel like (or maybe still do feel like) a few months ago. Every game I play and win, I encounter QQ. Especially from zerg.
I'm biased against terran. XD
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Bias: Terran Hatred: Protoss
Original right? :d
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Cool poll idea, from the results so far it looks like TL is heavy on zerg players. And its funny, usually when I am on i see a lot of zerg players streaming on the featured streams.
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I played terran in beta, and currently play protoss on my sea account, and I've been messing around with zerg on the ptr recently (will probably play as zerg on my na account).
I used to think zergs were overdoing the QQ, but now I kinda understand what zergs go through .Most of the time you think your ahead cause you've got one base more and more workers (mostly) and when a good two base timing push that wipes you clean comes, or you might have forgotten that one key overseer, and now you've got dts or banshees in your line, and it's pretty much gg at that point. it tends to leave you fuming (I had one more base and more workers than him waah!), so it's probably them letting some steam out.
As for hating a race..naah, I dont think I hate any, basically cheese is what gets hate occasionally, and any race can do that.
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On May 03 2011 07:38 TheBlueMeaner wrote: I think zvt has been figured out, whenever I see a zvt game I know what to expect and I know that there is a decent chance zerg might win, but whenever I see zvp I just don't know what crazy new strategy the zerg will try, and I know before the game starts that the zerg's chances of winning are slim.
by the way, "random" is not a race, "random" is an excuse for a mediocre player to cheese the hell out of another play by abusing the hidden race advantage, whenever I face a random player I know not to respect him and expect the worst half assed cheeses, I then proceed to dance my units after I beat the crap out him.
Srsly, random is the race I hate the most. Almost everyone who plays random just totally irredeemably sucks but wants to convince themselves otherwise by doing some retardcheese with their massive early game advantage. At least T/p/Z players mostly know how to play solid games and have actual skills.
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so, the general view on random players: they will cheese.
this is good to know 
i honestly dont know why ppl cry about cheese...its good to know how to defend against cheese. if failed, there is no one to blame except yourself. i get mad when i lose to cheese, mad at me, not the other player. i welcome cheese, its actually fun defending it.
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On May 03 2011 05:59 MonkeyMaan wrote: soo.. what if I am random and I do so since I like all three races? :/
I feel the same way, I like playing all three races and feel that while balance fluctuations may occur every race is generally reasonably balanced.
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On May 03 2011 09:54 Wyrd wrote: As a protoss, I now know what terrans used to feel like (or maybe still do feel like) a few months ago. Every game I play and win, I encounter QQ. Especially from zerg.
I'm biased against terran. XD if it means anything i play zerg and i still get QQ'd when i beat zerg
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On May 03 2011 10:36 Foreplay wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 09:54 Wyrd wrote: As a protoss, I now know what terrans used to feel like (or maybe still do feel like) a few months ago. Every game I play and win, I encounter QQ. Especially from zerg.
I'm biased against terran. XD if it means anything i play zerg and i still get QQ'd when i beat zerg kyle you're imbalanced
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played zerg for majority of beta(switched to T) and now i hate this race, dont know why, i used to love it but nowadays i even cheer for toss when pvz is played.
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On May 03 2011 10:16 Drowsy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 07:38 TheBlueMeaner wrote: I think zvt has been figured out, whenever I see a zvt game I know what to expect and I know that there is a decent chance zerg might win, but whenever I see zvp I just don't know what crazy new strategy the zerg will try, and I know before the game starts that the zerg's chances of winning are slim.
by the way, "random" is not a race, "random" is an excuse for a mediocre player to cheese the hell out of another play by abusing the hidden race advantage, whenever I face a random player I know not to respect him and expect the worst half assed cheeses, I then proceed to dance my units after I beat the crap out him. Srsly, random is the race I hate the most. Almost everyone who plays random just totally irredeemably sucks but wants to convince themselves otherwise by doing some retardcheese with their massive early game advantage. At least T/p/Z players mostly know how to play solid games and have actual skills.
I've never 4 gated/6pooled/2raxed/etc since becoming random. We aren't all bad
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On May 03 2011 07:15 EternaL_9 wrote: Big surprise.. TL is full of Idra fan-boy (hence his fan page) who hate protoss! Even though protoss has received only nerfs and zerg has received only buffs the past few months.
Basically when a zerg hates on a protoss for being OP this is what he is really saying "How dare you figure out how to play your race after being nerfed! fag op toss!
I know for a fact if IdrA didn't complain about balance so much, all of this protoss hate wouldn't exist (to this large of an extent).
Figure out their race? yea, thats why they use only 4 units on all matchups.
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What is this? The title is misleading and doesn't have a poll for what we play. The polls themselves don't even have "no bias" and "no hate" options.
Your OP doesn't even do a good job of explaining anything. What is the context of this "bias"? Is it when Liquibetting? Is it who we have a softer side for when we cheer? Because in that case, fuck yeah Random!
For the record, I play Zerg, am "biased" towards Protoss, and don't hate any race. Did we learn anything with that information? No.
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The point is not to figure out what you play. Its to figure out what TL has a bias towards. If you play it, you will generally have a bias to it.
There really is no way for you to play a specific race and say you are not bias to it. It's impossible. You are obviously bias because you play it all the time. Your opinion is based on your experiences playing that race. If most of TL plays zerg then their opinion is mostly based on playing Zerg. If you think that has no bearing on how TL feels about patch notes or tournament results, you are dead wrong.
While its true that there are people that play random and don't have a bias, they are much more rare. Also someone who has a bias but plays something else is also pretty low. Like artosis has a bias for zerg even though he plays toss now.
Its pretty obvious to see what we have learned so far.
Out of ~1000 people who voted on this pole, these are the conclusions we can come up with.
1) Zergs like to vote on poles more than other races 2) Zerg is a dominant race on TL 3) As of this time, people do not like playing against protoss
(NOTE: just because its a conclusion, doesn't make it true)
Now there are factors that affect this poll of course. This is not all of TL. Its a sample of TL. The more votes the more we learn obviously so while your specific vote doesn't teach us anything, it does make the results of this pole that much more valid.
It probably was an oversight to not include random players who don't have a bias. I will not deny that. However, I think these answers don't give an easy way out to just assume you are not bias.
(sick of word bias lol)
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On May 03 2011 11:57 Valcio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 07:15 EternaL_9 wrote: Big surprise.. TL is full of Idra fan-boy (hence his fan page) who hate protoss! Even though protoss has received only nerfs and zerg has received only buffs the past few months.
Basically when a zerg hates on a protoss for being OP this is what he is really saying "How dare you figure out how to play your race after being nerfed! fag op toss!
I know for a fact if IdrA didn't complain about balance so much, all of this protoss hate wouldn't exist (to this large of an extent). Figure out their race? yea, thats why they use only 4 units on all matchups.
It's called efficiency Also: Zealot, Stalker, Sentry, Colossus and Void Ray makes 5 units...
Joking aside, DTs are always an option mid- and lategame, HTs have been used to great success lately and also phoenixes and immortals are used quite often. Mothership was nerfed, and carriers are not really a valid choice.
I don't really get your point.
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On May 03 2011 07:38 TheBlueMeaner wrote: I think zvt has been figured out, whenever I see a zvt game I know what to expect and I know that there is a decent chance zerg might win, but whenever I see zvp I just don't know what crazy new strategy the zerg will try, and I know before the game starts that the zerg's chances of winning are slim.
by the way, "random" is not a race, "random" is an excuse for a mediocre player to cheese the hell out of another play by abusing the hidden race advantage, whenever I face a random player I know not to respect him and expect the worst half assed cheeses, I then proceed to dance my units after I beat the crap out him.
Uhm yeah buddy that is quite a big generalization.... Myself and the random player i know play it for diversity.
I kinda agree with the part about ZvP though,.
On May 03 2011 10:16 Drowsy wrote:
Srsly, random is the race I hate the most. Almost everyone who plays random just totally irredeemably sucks but wants to convince themselves otherwise by doing some retardcheese with their massive early game advantage. At least T/p/Z players mostly know how to play solid games and have actual skills.
Damn alot of Random haters there seems. Oh well if people expect me cheesing then i guess i catch them off guard, not bad
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Random players, man. Scout last on DQ 6 lings in mah base. You can't explain that.
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Wow, so much Protoss hate...why, guys?
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Because it's clearly imbalanced! Dude! The deathball! zomg! I personally blame IdrA for all protoss hate. He was vocal about it before anyone else was and who do you think TL zergs listen to :D
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idra was hating on protoss before is was cool
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Zerg bias, Protoss hatred.
But dear Protoss, I think we can put out differences behind us. For science. You monsters.
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Wow. The zerg numbers explain a lot of the comments on the LR threads.
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Random players get no love.
I don't dislike a particular race, I dislike particular matchups. Mirror match ups are definitely the most annoying. I go through phases where I hate PvT, TvZ, ZvP and TvP until I realize what I'm doing wrong in the match up and fix it (usually it revolves around upgrades or not expanding quick enough.) I absolutely hated ZvP until I saw Spanishiwa's build.
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I wonder what this thread looks like to people behind folks in class. Probably can't read the text besides "which race do you bias/hate" lol
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pity theres no option for no race you hate. it feels like if people put as much effort into thinking about their bad matchups as complaining the community would be a lot better players.
as a p i dislike playing p the most, but i certainly dont hate p.
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