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On April 30 2011 14:48 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 14:28 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Im curious as to how this will effect early BO now that more pylons will be needed to power the same area. Meaning not only is radius a factor, but now more minerals will be directed towards pylons while the average supply limit of a Protoss at any given moment will also probably be higher then what is now. At least in the early to mid game. -.- it will have 0 effect, anyone who builds excess pylons early game is clueless. There'll still be plenty of space. Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 14:28 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Do you guys think its possible we could see slightly slower (due to time increase) 4gating, but with the power of a 4gate being potentially higher with the higher unit capacity? Just think about it and you'll realise how stupid this question is.
Pretend all you like, but on fast expand builds more pylons will be needed early on with some maps with big natural chokes. Terran gets to build cc in main before expand. Zerg has best chace at fast expand by design. Protoss have pylons and cannons for fast expand. Now it is harder and baneling busts and 2base sling roach allins are even bettet against it.
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i dont think pylon radius is an issue i just think you have to get used to it :p
i like the new change because saccing an overlord for is slightly less random and the pvt warpin on cliffs from lowground pylon felt abit too annoying and pvp it was abit silly to be able to warp in zealots above the ramp so easily
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On April 30 2011 19:26 RemrafGrez wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 14:48 Scarecrow wrote:On April 30 2011 14:28 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Im curious as to how this will effect early BO now that more pylons will be needed to power the same area. Meaning not only is radius a factor, but now more minerals will be directed towards pylons while the average supply limit of a Protoss at any given moment will also probably be higher then what is now. At least in the early to mid game. -.- it will have 0 effect, anyone who builds excess pylons early game is clueless. There'll still be plenty of space. On April 30 2011 14:28 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Do you guys think its possible we could see slightly slower (due to time increase) 4gating, but with the power of a 4gate being potentially higher with the higher unit capacity? Just think about it and you'll realise how stupid this question is. Pretend all you like, but on fast expand builds more pylons will be needed early on with some maps with big natural chokes. Terran gets to build cc in main before expand. Zerg has best chace at fast expand by design. Protoss have pylons and cannons for fast expand. Now it is harder and baneling busts and 2base sling roach allins are even bettet against it.
pretend all you like, but most protoss players will be happy with the overall changes on the PTR.
the only effect the pylon range will have on building placement is that you will need to find a 'standard' pylon position instead of just randomly throwing one down knowing that it will power a 100 mile radius.
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And I don't understand the 4 gate argument against pylon range in 1.3.2. Stalkers have range 6 so they can ALWAYS hit a low ground pylon that can warp to high ground. And you only need two stalkers to kill a being built pylon if you spot it fast. 3 stalkers if you spot it late. Who won't have 3 stalkers by that time after the huge warpgate research nerf in pvp??? Pretty sure that covers silver through grandmasters. And if a bronze can 4gate perfectly, he wont be in bronze long.
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Not a huge deal. If you need to put cannon above the mineral line then you can as well put a pylon there.
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On April 30 2011 20:58 RemrafGrez wrote:
And I don't understand the 4 gate argument against pylon range in 1.3.2. Stalkers have range 6 so they can ALWAYS hit a low ground pylon that can warp to high ground. And you only need two stalkers to kill a being built pylon if you spot it fast. 3 stalkers if you spot it late. Who won't have 3 stalkers by that time after the huge warpgate research nerf in pvp??? Pretty sure that covers silver through grandmasters.
I think there are some positions where stalkers can't touch it, and you have a little sliver that you can warp a couple zealots into.
The main issue is that you attack while placing the pylon. Your (very minimal anyway) forces are occupied while the pylon goes up. Killing the probe is pretty much the only way to stop the pylon going up.
Anywho I couldn't care less about this change as a toss player. I'll have to be a touch more careful with my building placement - but that's something I try to improve anyway.
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Meh I think I can handle this nerf if it stops 4 gate in pvp. A small price for better games imo
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On April 30 2011 19:29 MorroW wrote:
i dont think pylon radius is an issue i just think you have to get used to it :p
i like the new change because saccing an overlord for is slightly less random and the pvt warpin on cliffs from lowground pylon felt abit too annoying and pvp it was abit silly to be able to warp in zealots above the ramp so easily
Yea I love how people will complain about everything. Pylon radius was massive before. Now it's smaller. It's far similar to BW now and in BW guys spent hours and hours figuring out building placements perfectly. Cannons are even more powerful in SC2. People will just have to get used to it, your race is by no means broken now.
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whats the big deal. that looks like thats as far as a pylon should humanly go anwyay... you can still fit like 10 gateways off of one pylon...
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Well in bw you had to place two pylon aswell to able to cannon up your exp, im fine with it
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Err build an extra pylon? It's no big deal seriously, and as the above posters mentioned, you'll have to put in extra effort to figure out the most efficient way to wall in
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No tested and stalkers can always hit the pylon. Somebody show me otherwise because i may change my opinion... But i tested pretty thoroughly and even found a sliver on metalopolis at 9 oclock pylon near nat minerals that only allowed one zealot, but stalker could hit it. And one zealot going to die anyway.
Maybe before warpin research nerf it was hard to have enough to defend ramp and kill pylons, but in ptr you can even build units as fast as a warpgater with regular gateways.
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On April 30 2011 09:27 emesen wrote:
pylons and probes bro... now you have more reason to not supply block yourself
Day9 probably aproves this message ^
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Oh no, you can no longer reach all the way around the nexus to place cannons there using one pylon.
In return, this is what you get.
Worse timed 4gate in PvP.
Worse cannon rushes in PvP.
Worse pylon warp in on top of your ramp in PvP.
I really don't understand the big deal here.
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On April 30 2011 11:54 CanucksJC wrote:
Maybe I'll see less cannon rushing on the ladder thank god
Yeah. It's funny that many protoss are complaining in regard of the pylon energy radius because now they have to adapt to new building placements or building one more pylon in a certain area. But when they want to build 3 pylons at the bottom of a ramp of a zerg main they manage to get the minerals.
In my humble opinion I think that is all a matter of adapt to the new radius in the early game. Because in middle and late game it's common to see lots of pylon energy radius overlapping.
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Think of it this way: the pylon range before was too big and now it is normal. Anyway when sc2 beta came out it really looked like the pylon range was bigger than in sc1.
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On April 30 2011 10:13 PowerDes wrote:
Simple fix: Do not change building radius, only warp in radius.
This pylon radius is crucial to forge fast expanding against zerg. One cannon in front, one in the back will prevent a couple of roaches from ranging the expansion/workers from behind.
If you aren't bitching, you don't play protoss.
This ^
It would so much more awesome if there were just 2 different radiuses. The difference is flippin huge.
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there was no reason to have a much bigger pylon range than in sc:bw
they just fixed that
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On April 30 2011 21:44 imperator-xy wrote:
there was no reason to have a much bigger pylon range than in sc:bw
they just fixed that
Just think it as a bug fix  like Liquid'Tyler said
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hmmm just saying but the radius in BW was "like" this so i don't see the fuss really helps against 4 gates and makes you be more careful with your pylon placements so i think its a good move from blizzard
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EPT
