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Patch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 71

Forum Index > SC2 General
4401 CommentsPost a Reply
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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully.
Mactator
Profile Joined March 2011
109 Posts
April 26 2011 12:33 GMT
#1401
In general a very nice patch. Changing the Pylon power radius from 7.5 to 6.5 could be a huge thing. At least you should remember to place your pylons well in your base!

Pretty reasonable changes. I like the decrease in root time for spore crawlers although I still think, as many others, that the root time for spine crawlers is too large.
HudsonK
Profile Joined December 2009
China172 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 12:34:27
April 26 2011 12:34 GMT
#1402
NOOOOO MY FREE BUNKERS > what is maraudercraft without free bunkers
Darneck
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden1394 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 12:35:00
April 26 2011 12:34 GMT
#1403
On April 26 2011 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 21:24 Yaotzin wrote:
Bigger maps, stronger roaches, and the acceptance that hatch first is unviable against Protoss all killed 2gate better than a 5second nerf ever could. It'll make no difference being back down to 33.


It seems that someone in the developer team is a protoss player by these changes, looking at how much effort is being done to fix PvP, yet the most broken aspect of the game (ZvP) remains untouched or actually worst, even more favored to Protoss thanks to these gateway changes and the archon change.

Since you know better than Blizzard how to balance their game, perhaps you could inform us how the archon change affects ZvP at all?

It does not change a thing, use your brain a bit ? Read what he said again.

He does say that that it remains untouched or even worse for the zerg because of the gateway changes and the archon change. So he does indeed say that it changes something.
Bosu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3247 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 12:36:08
April 26 2011 12:35 GMT
#1404
Bleh.

I think the game just needs an expansion at this point to mix up a ton of shit. The biggest problem I have with the game right now is losing to deathballs is incredibly not fun and frustrating. I think that making collosus weaker needs to be their focus and if that means buffing other things then that should be done.
#1 Kwanro Fan
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
April 26 2011 12:35 GMT
#1405
The weird thing though is that they once increased zealot time from 33 to 38 and now they want it back down to 33? I guess we will see how it works out on PTR.


The patch that changed them from 33 to 38 also changed their warpgate cooldown from 23 to 28, this keeps them 28 warpgate but 33 gateway.

Uhnno
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands288 Posts
April 26 2011 12:36 GMT
#1406
While I really like how they nerfed 4gate in PvP, this kinda ruins my 3gate expo timings. Back to the drawing board.
rushian
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom568 Posts
April 26 2011 12:36 GMT
#1407
On April 26 2011 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 21:24 Yaotzin wrote:
Bigger maps, stronger roaches, and the acceptance that hatch first is unviable against Protoss all killed 2gate better than a 5second nerf ever could. It'll make no difference being back down to 33.


It seems that someone in the developer team is a protoss player by these changes, looking at how much effort is being done to fix PvP, yet the most broken aspect of the game (ZvP) remains untouched or actually worst, even more favored to Protoss thanks to these gateway changes and the archon change.

Since you know better than Blizzard how to balance their game, perhaps you could inform us how the archon change affects ZvP at all?

It does not change a thing, use your brain a bit ? It's still a patch that favor protoss overall, which is funny considering the state of the game.
Blizz is always one train late.

Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 21:22 features wrote:
Have to laugh at the Zergs complaining about the return of 2gate, when they still have the option to steal a game with an early pool. Not a garantee of a win by any stretch but at least they have an option.

In recent patches, Toss had no real chance to pressure a fast expanding zerg, without dodgey proxies.

btw ARCHONS are massive! That alone made my day :3

That's because protoss were lazy. You had 4gate since the beginning, you had proxy but no protoss use it because it is not a freewin, you had canon since the beginning.

I don't understand. are you saying 4gate is a free win in PvZ?

Patch looks pretty good. I think it would be fine though if they keep zealot 'build' time at 38sec, while still shortening stalker and sentry build time.

I still wish they'd reconsider nerfing colossus and bringing back KA in some form, but I guess that's not going to happen
"Love every protoss unit" - oGsMC
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
April 26 2011 12:37 GMT
#1408
On April 26 2011 21:36 Uhnno wrote:
While I really like how they nerfed 4gate in PvP, this kinda ruins my 3gate expo timings. Back to the drawing board.

Try making the second gate earlier, and making sentries from the gateways. You'll be pleasantly surprised - even on the current patch - how similar this is to the 2/3 sentry then 3 sentry warpin method.
Cirqueenflex
Profile Joined October 2010
499 Posts
April 26 2011 12:40 GMT
#1409
o.o

i was already really sad to see a few ghosts being able to snipe so many brood lords in literally no time without the zerg being able to do much about it
and now ghosts become even cheaper on gas? As if terran really ever had problems getting minerals with their mules.

Also i feel like making overseer cost 75 gas only would be a fair change since observer are 75 gas as well

the problem with spore crawler isnt that you would have 20 on one base and zero on the other and you need to get them there and burrow as fast as possible, its more the problem of zerg getting detection/antiair at all. If you get spore crawler, you tend to have them equally spread on your bases, so drawing them from one base to defend another vs air units is quite uhm not viable.

also im still hoping for a complete remake of the zerg race, there seems just too much broken atm
Give a man a fire, you keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
AidanS
Profile Joined September 2010
39 Posts
April 26 2011 12:40 GMT
#1410
I dont see how faster unit production from gateways compensates delayed warpgate.

The big advantage of warpgate is that you skip (well slightly more than halve - 10sec change over + 5 warp in) a production cycle as soon as you get it making defending early roach pressure just about possible.

It means you get 3 or 4 units roughly 20 seconds early.
Producing units 5 seconds faster per gateway up to that point doesn't seem to make up for this given that you are going to have maybe 3 units when any early attack hits.
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
April 26 2011 12:40 GMT
#1411
On April 26 2011 21:36 rushian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
On April 26 2011 21:24 Yaotzin wrote:
Bigger maps, stronger roaches, and the acceptance that hatch first is unviable against Protoss all killed 2gate better than a 5second nerf ever could. It'll make no difference being back down to 33.


It seems that someone in the developer team is a protoss player by these changes, looking at how much effort is being done to fix PvP, yet the most broken aspect of the game (ZvP) remains untouched or actually worst, even more favored to Protoss thanks to these gateway changes and the archon change.

Since you know better than Blizzard how to balance their game, perhaps you could inform us how the archon change affects ZvP at all?

It does not change a thing, use your brain a bit ? It's still a patch that favor protoss overall, which is funny considering the state of the game.
Blizz is always one train late.

On April 26 2011 21:22 features wrote:
Have to laugh at the Zergs complaining about the return of 2gate, when they still have the option to steal a game with an early pool. Not a garantee of a win by any stretch but at least they have an option.

In recent patches, Toss had no real chance to pressure a fast expanding zerg, without dodgey proxies.

btw ARCHONS are massive! That alone made my day :3

That's because protoss were lazy. You had 4gate since the beginning, you had proxy but no protoss use it because it is not a freewin, you had canon since the beginning.

I don't understand. are you saying 4gate is a free win in PvZ?

Patch looks pretty good. I think it would be fine though if they keep zealot 'build' time at 38sec, while still shortening stalker and sentry build time.

I still wish they'd reconsider nerfing colossus and bringing back KA in some form, but I guess that's not going to happen

No. I was just pointing out the fact that you already had a lot of way to pressure your opponent: just did not do it because 3gate expand or any other kind of FFE into death ball gives you a better win % than a risky proxy / 4gate / canon rushing.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Gunman_csz
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United Arab Emirates492 Posts
April 26 2011 12:42 GMT
#1412
Buff to forge expo and protoss cheese. Hooray

ATM 14pool/15hatch - 15pool/16hatch is capable of holding stalker / proxy gates and still be somewhat okay in economy vs forge expo. Not to mention if they delay your expansion with pylon then you are way way behind.

Looks like a return to blind speedling expand to account for fast stalker pressure or proxy 2gates and meanwhile if toss opts for forge expos' you are behind in economy throughout the game.

Thank you blizzard.
Began Starcraft journey on 5th May 2009
parn
Profile Joined December 2010
France296 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 12:45:13
April 26 2011 12:43 GMT
#1413
Maybe I'm wrong but as a Zerg player I'd really like to be 2 gates proxy.

First it's really risky, because easier to scout, longer to build, than just a hidden pylon. The gate building time did not change.

Second you go speed ling + 1 Spine and you're pretty fine (if you have spotted it for sure), depending on the map of course, but those tend to be larger.

Third it's kinda "over" for the Protoss once you've stopped it.

Different topic:
Could any good Protoss PvP player try to anticipate timing about:

A Protoss going for a hard 4 gates Warp push (1 zealot/stalker only)
vs
A Protoss going for 2/3 gates chronoboost tier1 units

Is 4g still viable with that sort of thing/option?
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.
garrett
Profile Joined April 2011
United States7 Posts
April 26 2011 12:43 GMT
#1414
I guess we will have to see how the reduced build times affect the current map pool before any real sort of QQ can start happening.
arew
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Lithuania1861 Posts
April 26 2011 12:45 GMT
#1415
I've always wanted Archons to be immune against Marauder's shells. Such a good thing, that Blizzard has done. Looking forward to see how gateway timings gonna affect the game tho.
Really interesting changes, but IMO, some of these changes won't be on the main patch.
Hello 2proxy gates, btw! xD
750/750 emotions fully stacked
alepov
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands1132 Posts
April 26 2011 12:46 GMT
#1416
good changes, like every single one of them
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
ReaperX
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Hong Kong1758 Posts
April 26 2011 12:47 GMT
#1417
will we just stop QQing lol? This is obviously going to be more balanced for all races atleast.
Artosis : Clide. idrA : Shut up.
The Touch
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom667 Posts
April 26 2011 12:47 GMT
#1418
Oh noes my bunkers now cost 25 minerals. I might just cry myself to sleep...

Or not :p
You Got The Touch
AidanS
Profile Joined September 2010
39 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 12:48:09
April 26 2011 12:47 GMT
#1419
As a side effect of this hallucination is effectively delayed 40 seconds as well keeping gateway focuesd builds totally blind versus zerg and almost blind versus terran.

Good thing they reduced that hallucination build time in a previous patch so they could effectively lengthen it from the original time in this one!
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
April 26 2011 12:48 GMT
#1420
On April 26 2011 21:40 AidanS wrote:
I dont see how faster unit production from gateways compensates delayed warpgate.

The big advantage of warpgate is that you skip (well slightly more than halve - 10sec change over + 5 warp in) a production cycle as soon as you get it making defending early roach pressure just about possible.

It means you get 3 or 4 units roughly 20 seconds early.
Producing units 5 seconds faster per gateway up to that point doesn't seem to make up for this given that you are going to have maybe 3 units when any early attack hits.


i think its mainly to stop 4gate pressure. I think with the changes suggested, you could hold off roach early pressure without needing the warpgate that early. You could still 3gate expand, and with the extra 40 seconds that WG takes to finish you can have another unit out of each gateway. Or you could even go for a defensive 4gate, but again you wouldnt have to rely on WG early on, you could just produce from 4 gates whlile researching it. I think that 40 extra seconds is really gonna change PvP, now theres a possibility to go 2gas, 2 gate into really quick collosus imo, and you can probably get the first one out at the same time or maybe a bit later then WG. depending on how you chorno. And it may result in alot more immortal/zealot play in PvP which is awesome cos they're 2 of my favourite units :D

I think there'll be some really interesting builds coming out of this, alot of 3 gate pressure with alot of stalkers, could be fun
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