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Patch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 73

Forum Index > SC2 General
4401 CommentsPost a Reply
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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully.
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
April 26 2011 13:00 GMT
#1441
This is the "change pvp and warpgates patch". It would be foolish to buff Zerg at the same time, as if the results are bad they can't tell which changes were the problem.
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
April 26 2011 13:02 GMT
#1442
On April 26 2011 21:49 kawaiiryuko wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the "warp-in" time was previously 5 seconds, right? So now, the time to make units from GWs are the same as the CD for warping those units in? (Note: I specified cooldown, not the total time to make units via WGs).

Honestly, this patch feels like such a huge change that I'm not quite sure how to feel about it. Although we know that the pylon-power and WG/GW build time change was directed at changing PvP 4gates, what did the spore-crawler root-time and ghost-change come from? Was there an outcry for that?


I don't know if it was neccesary, but having 12 seconds of burrow time for the spore was a bit ridicoulous. Spines I can understand.

As for the ghosts, for having such a elegible game changing spell in the EMP they were not used that much. If that is the players fault or them being too expensive I have no idea, but blizzard seems to be of the later opinion.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
_Darwin_
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2374 Posts
April 26 2011 13:02 GMT
#1443
On April 26 2011 22:00 LittleKrums wrote:
Until protoss has tier 3 units that are viable besides the colossus, the game is still broken. Collossus is OP and has the exact same role as psystorm except that it's constant, has a way longer cast range, and WHAT only deals 1.8 less DPS. Right now terran is the best balanced race by a longshot in my opinion and collossus need to be nerfed into the ground.


Collosus don't attack air. High templars do.

Collosus can be hit by air. High templars can't.

That was easy!
I cant stop lactating
Vapaach
Profile Joined February 2011
Finland994 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 13:03:44
April 26 2011 13:02 GMT
#1444
You can still all-in with the 4 gate at about 5:30, it will just be way more all-in because you can't really chrono boost your nexus at all.

I like the changes, besides the pylon radius nerf. Seems really pointless and makes efficient simcity harder for protoss.
If you never try you never know. Sase - Mana - TLO - WhiteRa - Naniwa - Sheth - HuK
annYeong(o11)
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada784 Posts
April 26 2011 13:03 GMT
#1445
On April 26 2011 21:49 brachester wrote:
hmm, i think you guys should go test it first before saying anything premature like "oh, no 2 gates is undefendable" or "free win for protoss", and also i'm a bit confused with blizzard's intention with the zealot's timing since they have already changed it 3 or 4 times already. Maybe they decided not to balance at low level anymore beacuse they increased its building time because it's hard to defend at "certain" level.



It's widely known throughout the land that the Zealot Gateway build time is the lynchpin of Protoss balance, similar to the Bunker build time being the cornerstone to Terran balance.
Founder of the KiWiKaKi Fanclub: teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188537 my keyboard is like half broken. like terran. please ignore typos, thanks
Cajun2k1
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands399 Posts
April 26 2011 13:03 GMT
#1446
On April 26 2011 21:59 Zorgaz wrote:
Lol @ the salvage change? Doesn't seem that necessary. Other changes are good i guess.


The biggest 'problem' with the bunker-rush is, that it's a zero-risk investment with the possibility to do a lot of damage to your zerg opponent. Now that's not the way a RTS should be designed, but now it costs 25 mins to salvage, so Terran should 'think' a little more about when and where they bunker up.
How can you kill, that which has no life?
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
April 26 2011 13:06 GMT
#1447
On April 26 2011 21:59 Mangemongen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 21:24 Tacoss23 wrote:
I can't belive what I'm reading, these changes are so...so...far from what the community has been asking.

It seems that someone in the developer team is a protoss player by these changes, looking at how much effort is being done to fix PvP, yet the most broken aspect of the game (ZvP) remains untouched or actually worst, even more favored to Protoss thanks to these gateway changes and the archon change.

I hope these are not all the notes, because if they are I've lost officially any kind of respcet for this game, and SC2 will lose total credibility as an E-sport very soon.


Yeah, what I don't get is why zerg isn't buffed (more), it's still widely recognised as the weakest race. I cannot speak from my own experience because I suck, but the top level pro zergs really do.

We'll just have to see how things end up.


I've not seen many top players claim zerg is the weakest race. Against protoss yes, but many have expressed opinions that TvZ favours the zerg now in a lot of ways.

Also as someone said, if you change too much at the same time, there will be more difficult to figure out what concequences of the individual changes were. If this patch works out alright I guess they will reevaluate PvZ.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
April 26 2011 13:07 GMT
#1448
On April 26 2011 21:49 kawaiiryuko wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the "warp-in" time was previously 5 seconds, right? So now, the time to make units from GWs are the same as the CD for warping those units in? (Note: I specified cooldown, not the total time to make units via WGs).

Honestly, this patch feels like such a huge change that I'm not quite sure how to feel about it. Although we know that the pylon-power and WG/GW build time change was directed at changing PvP 4gates, what did the spore-crawler root-time and ghost-change come from? Was there an outcry for that?

spore crawler is so zerg doesnt get owned just because getting a bit caught off guard on dt's or void rays. As it is right now you basically lose because you didnt scout perfectly and protoss is going air really early(without really being all in or anything). It's just one of many things that need tweaking to make zerg less of a bitch to play. Players havent been as vocal about it as alot of other things.

Ghost is probably in response to infestors being so strong with the new fungal growth.
Do you really want chat rooms?
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
April 26 2011 13:07 GMT
#1449
For 25 minerals?
It's a start, but it won't deter the Terrans to use it offensively in any way, really.
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
April 26 2011 13:07 GMT
#1450
On April 26 2011 22:00 Yaotzin wrote:
This is the "change pvp and warpgates patch". It would be foolish to buff Zerg at the same time, as if the results are bad they can't tell which changes were the problem.

spore crawlers have very little to do with 4gate
Do you really want chat rooms?
J0k3
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden40 Posts
April 26 2011 13:07 GMT
#1451
I dont play much myself, but im looking very much forward to see how the PvP games will be on GOM/TSL/NASL
The KY
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom6252 Posts
April 26 2011 13:08 GMT
#1452
On April 26 2011 13:10 AndAgain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 13:03 The KY wrote:
On ghost change; maybe Blizzard just wants terran to start making ghosts TvP. I mean, a lot of terrans are having a real hard time in that MU right now and perhaps this is Blizzard going 'GUYS. There's this anti toss unit right here. Look, we'll even lower the gas cost for you so you can other units as well*. Come on.'

(*seriously, every time I want ghosts it's like 'well, can't make medivacs, mech, marauders or banshees for a while')

I really like the mod sticky thingy at the top of this thread btw. It makes me laugh, having not read the thread and imagining the mods facepalming seeing all the people talking shit.


Yeah and every time I make a sentry, I think- oh well, I can't make colossi, immortals, or all that other protoss shit that costs a bajilion gas.

Oh wait...


Dont' be facetious, I play random and that's how it feels playing terran against protoss because you absolutely need all your gas for other things and the only time you actually feel safe making ghosts is when you see HTs.
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
April 26 2011 13:10 GMT
#1453
On April 26 2011 22:07 FarbrorAbavna wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 22:00 Yaotzin wrote:
This is the "change pvp and warpgates patch". It would be foolish to buff Zerg at the same time, as if the results are bad they can't tell which changes were the problem.

spore crawlers have very little to do with 4gate

Well yeah, I mean that's the "big" thing of this patch. Then there are other little things like that and archons. In fact that these other things are totally unrelated is likely by intention: if ghosts prove too strong, say, they know that had nothing to do with the warpgate changes. If OTOH they buffed, say, hydras and toss started getting massacred by hydra busts, they couldn't be sure whether it was the warpgate change or the hydra change.
The KY
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom6252 Posts
April 26 2011 13:11 GMT
#1454
On April 26 2011 21:52 Trentelshark wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 21:24 features wrote:
Terrans also crying that they will have to wall in again, haha

Terrans should have to wall at the start, just how i feel

There's no need to wall in to stop a proxy 2 gate but it does help if you setup your barracks and depot to wall in near the gas in TvP regardless. Blindly walling in against Protoss is a horrible idea if it isn't a 4 gate the wall is too vulnerable to stalker fire, void ray, etc. All the change means is I'll have to scout far earlier on 2 player maps to look for it and prepare accordingly.


Yeah walls in are bad against toss, you're just asking to have a void ray charge up on a supply depot while your marines do nothing at all, or to have 3 forcefields make it impossible for you to shoot back at stalkers.
Pughy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Wales662 Posts
April 26 2011 13:11 GMT
#1455
Man why are so many toss' crying about the warpgates thing. I've played around alot ingame and normally not gettin early warpgate is something I do alot. It's seriously not a big deal. And those saying oh no we'll never hold early pressure from other races, erm, yeah you will 100%. God damn 3 roach speedling all-in doesn't even attack before you get warpgates up anyway (and I've still managed to get about 5 units out before then aswell). As a protoss I welcome these changes, I don't even consider them a nerf.
Commentatorwww.twitter.com/pughydude www.twitch.tv/pughydude
Fyzar
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands8010 Posts
April 26 2011 13:11 GMT
#1456
On April 26 2011 22:06 nihlon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 21:59 Mangemongen wrote:
On April 26 2011 21:24 Tacoss23 wrote:
I can't belive what I'm reading, these changes are so...so...far from what the community has been asking.

It seems that someone in the developer team is a protoss player by these changes, looking at how much effort is being done to fix PvP, yet the most broken aspect of the game (ZvP) remains untouched or actually worst, even more favored to Protoss thanks to these gateway changes and the archon change.

I hope these are not all the notes, because if they are I've lost officially any kind of respcet for this game, and SC2 will lose total credibility as an E-sport very soon.


Yeah, what I don't get is why zerg isn't buffed (more), it's still widely recognised as the weakest race. I cannot speak from my own experience because I suck, but the top level pro zergs really do.

We'll just have to see how things end up.


I've not seen many top players claim zerg is the weakest race. Against protoss yes, but many have expressed opinions that TvZ favours the zerg now in a lot of ways.

Also as someone said, if you change too much at the same time, there will be more difficult to figure out what concequences of the individual changes were. If this patch works out alright I guess they will reevaluate PvZ.

Another thing to take into consideration is that Zergs have not really been using the buffs that they did get, like the infestor stuff.
I think Blizzard is actually waiting until that's used more before they re-evaluate the matchup.
It appears I have been chosen.
clusen
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany8702 Posts
April 26 2011 13:13 GMT
#1457
On April 26 2011 21:59 Mangemongen wrote:
Yeah, what I don't get is why zerg isn't buffed (more), it's still widely recognised as the weakest race. I cannot speak from my own experience because I suck, but the top level pro zergs really do.

We'll just have to see how things end up.

Because the game is evolving really fast and Zergs are learning to adept to Toss. As a Zerg I really like the fact that they did not change more. Zergs are becoming quite scary with drops and multi-pronged attacks, which is so fucking awesome from a spectators pov...no reason to intervene there right now in my opinion, it could hurt the matchup and the evolution of Zergs actually because stuff like drops would not be needed anymore and we are back to ball vs ball. No, thx, not now :p

And the spore change makes Zerg a little bit more stable, I really like how the patch sounds =)
Krehlmar
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1149 Posts
April 26 2011 13:15 GMT
#1458
Christ, been asking for that bunkerchange since forever... stupid arse blizzard changing buildtime and whatnot instead of making that simple change.

Pylon is so ye can't warp in everywere as easily... not sure I like it though.
My Comment Doesnt Matter Because No One Reads It
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
April 26 2011 13:15 GMT
#1459
On April 26 2011 18:59 SinCitta wrote:
I really hope that removal of 4 warpgate will open up new strategies... because war of the worlds will be a million times worse and more random. And like Naniwa said, Warcraft players are not too sad of 4 gate since they are used to few, high HP units deciding games.


The +massive change to Void Rays already mucked up the "War of the worlds" metagame a while back, I don't think it will really come back in the same strength.

And shit, I'm all for a pvp metagame that involves the players actually TAKING THEIR NATURAL.
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
April 26 2011 13:15 GMT
#1460
On April 26 2011 22:10 Yaotzin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 22:07 FarbrorAbavna wrote:
On April 26 2011 22:00 Yaotzin wrote:
This is the "change pvp and warpgates patch". It would be foolish to buff Zerg at the same time, as if the results are bad they can't tell which changes were the problem.

spore crawlers have very little to do with 4gate

Well yeah, I mean that's the "big" thing of this patch. Then there are other little things like that and archons. In fact that these other things are totally unrelated is likely by intention: if ghosts prove too strong, say, they know that had nothing to do with the warpgate changes. If OTOH they buffed, say, hydras and toss started getting massacred by hydra busts, they couldn't be sure whether it was the warpgate change or the hydra change.

I understand your point in that changing too much at the same time makes it hard to know what had the greatest effect on the game. I'm also trying to follow your thought on the patch changes to zerg and I'm gonna guess that you have spine crawlers and spore crawlers mixed up. Spore crawlers shot air. Otherwise it's just me being stupid and I dont get at all what kind of buff to zerg that is in this patch that you are talking about which they shouldnt do at the same time as the gateway/warpgate changes.
Do you really want chat rooms?
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