EPTPatch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 73
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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On April 26 2011 21:49 kawaiiryuko wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but the "warp-in" time was previously 5 seconds, right? So now, the time to make units from GWs are the same as the CD for warping those units in? (Note: I specified cooldown, not the total time to make units via WGs). Honestly, this patch feels like such a huge change that I'm not quite sure how to feel about it. Although we know that the pylon-power and WG/GW build time change was directed at changing PvP 4gates, what did the spore-crawler root-time and ghost-change come from? Was there an outcry for that? I don't know if it was neccesary, but having 12 seconds of burrow time for the spore was a bit ridicoulous. Spines I can understand. As for the ghosts, for having such a elegible game changing spell in the EMP they were not used that much. If that is the players fault or them being too expensive I have no idea, but blizzard seems to be of the later opinion. | ||
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_Darwin_
United States2374 Posts
On April 26 2011 22:00 LittleKrums wrote: Until protoss has tier 3 units that are viable besides the colossus, the game is still broken. Collossus is OP and has the exact same role as psystorm except that it's constant, has a way longer cast range, and WHAT only deals 1.8 less DPS. Right now terran is the best balanced race by a longshot in my opinion and collossus need to be nerfed into the ground. Collosus don't attack air. High templars do. Collosus can be hit by air. High templars can't. That was easy! | ||
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Vapaach
Finland994 Posts
I like the changes, besides the pylon radius nerf. Seems really pointless and makes efficient simcity harder for protoss. | ||
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annYeong(o11)
Canada784 Posts
On April 26 2011 21:49 brachester wrote: hmm, i think you guys should go test it first before saying anything premature like "oh, no 2 gates is undefendable" or "free win for protoss", and also i'm a bit confused with blizzard's intention with the zealot's timing since they have already changed it 3 or 4 times already. Maybe they decided not to balance at low level anymore beacuse they increased its building time because it's hard to defend at "certain" level. It's widely known throughout the land that the Zealot Gateway build time is the lynchpin of Protoss balance, similar to the Bunker build time being the cornerstone to Terran balance. | ||
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Cajun2k1
Netherlands399 Posts
On April 26 2011 21:59 Zorgaz wrote: Lol @ the salvage change? Doesn't seem that necessary. Other changes are good i guess. The biggest 'problem' with the bunker-rush is, that it's a zero-risk investment with the possibility to do a lot of damage to your zerg opponent. Now that's not the way a RTS should be designed, but now it costs 25 mins to salvage, so Terran should 'think' a little more about when and where they bunker up. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On April 26 2011 21:59 Mangemongen wrote: Yeah, what I don't get is why zerg isn't buffed (more), it's still widely recognised as the weakest race. I cannot speak from my own experience because I suck, but the top level pro zergs really do. We'll just have to see how things end up. I've not seen many top players claim zerg is the weakest race. Against protoss yes, but many have expressed opinions that TvZ favours the zerg now in a lot of ways. Also as someone said, if you change too much at the same time, there will be more difficult to figure out what concequences of the individual changes were. If this patch works out alright I guess they will reevaluate PvZ. | ||
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
On April 26 2011 21:49 kawaiiryuko wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but the "warp-in" time was previously 5 seconds, right? So now, the time to make units from GWs are the same as the CD for warping those units in? (Note: I specified cooldown, not the total time to make units via WGs). Honestly, this patch feels like such a huge change that I'm not quite sure how to feel about it. Although we know that the pylon-power and WG/GW build time change was directed at changing PvP 4gates, what did the spore-crawler root-time and ghost-change come from? Was there an outcry for that? spore crawler is so zerg doesnt get owned just because getting a bit caught off guard on dt's or void rays. As it is right now you basically lose because you didnt scout perfectly and protoss is going air really early(without really being all in or anything). It's just one of many things that need tweaking to make zerg less of a bitch to play. Players havent been as vocal about it as alot of other things. Ghost is probably in response to infestors being so strong with the new fungal growth. | ||
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ToastieNL
Netherlands845 Posts
It's a start, but it won't deter the Terrans to use it offensively in any way, really. | ||
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
On April 26 2011 22:00 Yaotzin wrote: This is the "change pvp and warpgates patch". It would be foolish to buff Zerg at the same time, as if the results are bad they can't tell which changes were the problem. spore crawlers have very little to do with 4gate  | ||
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J0k3
Sweden40 Posts
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On April 26 2011 13:10 AndAgain wrote: Yeah and every time I make a sentry, I think- oh well, I can't make colossi, immortals, or all that other protoss shit that costs a bajilion gas. Oh wait... Dont' be facetious, I play random and that's how it feels playing terran against protoss because you absolutely need all your gas for other things and the only time you actually feel safe making ghosts is when you see HTs. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On April 26 2011 22:07 FarbrorAbavna wrote: spore crawlers have very little to do with 4gate Well yeah, I mean that's the "big" thing of this patch. Then there are other little things like that and archons. In fact that these other things are totally unrelated is likely by intention: if ghosts prove too strong, say, they know that had nothing to do with the warpgate changes. If OTOH they buffed, say, hydras and toss started getting massacred by hydra busts, they couldn't be sure whether it was the warpgate change or the hydra change. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On April 26 2011 21:52 Trentelshark wrote: There's no need to wall in to stop a proxy 2 gate but it does help if you setup your barracks and depot to wall in near the gas in TvP regardless. Blindly walling in against Protoss is a horrible idea if it isn't a 4 gate the wall is too vulnerable to stalker fire, void ray, etc. All the change means is I'll have to scout far earlier on 2 player maps to look for it and prepare accordingly. Yeah walls in are bad against toss, you're just asking to have a void ray charge up on a supply depot while your marines do nothing at all, or to have 3 forcefields make it impossible for you to shoot back at stalkers. | ||
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Pughy
Wales662 Posts
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Fyzar
Netherlands8010 Posts
On April 26 2011 22:06 nihlon wrote: I've not seen many top players claim zerg is the weakest race. Against protoss yes, but many have expressed opinions that TvZ favours the zerg now in a lot of ways. Also as someone said, if you change too much at the same time, there will be more difficult to figure out what concequences of the individual changes were. If this patch works out alright I guess they will reevaluate PvZ. Another thing to take into consideration is that Zergs have not really been using the buffs that they did get, like the infestor stuff. I think Blizzard is actually waiting until that's used more before they re-evaluate the matchup. | ||
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clusen
Germany8702 Posts
On April 26 2011 21:59 Mangemongen wrote: Yeah, what I don't get is why zerg isn't buffed (more), it's still widely recognised as the weakest race. I cannot speak from my own experience because I suck, but the top level pro zergs really do. We'll just have to see how things end up. Because the game is evolving really fast and Zergs are learning to adept to Toss. As a Zerg I really like the fact that they did not change more. Zergs are becoming quite scary with drops and multi-pronged attacks, which is so fucking awesome from a spectators pov...no reason to intervene there right now in my opinion, it could hurt the matchup and the evolution of Zergs actually because stuff like drops would not be needed anymore and we are back to ball vs ball. No, thx, not now :p And the spore change makes Zerg a little bit more stable, I really like how the patch sounds =) | ||
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
Pylon is so ye can't warp in everywere as easily... not sure I like it though. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On April 26 2011 18:59 SinCitta wrote: I really hope that removal of 4 warpgate will open up new strategies... because war of the worlds will be a million times worse and more random. And like Naniwa said, Warcraft players are not too sad of 4 gate since they are used to few, high HP units deciding games. The +massive change to Void Rays already mucked up the "War of the worlds" metagame a while back, I don't think it will really come back in the same strength. And shit, I'm all for a pvp metagame that involves the players actually TAKING THEIR NATURAL. | ||
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
On April 26 2011 22:10 Yaotzin wrote: Well yeah, I mean that's the "big" thing of this patch. Then there are other little things like that and archons. In fact that these other things are totally unrelated is likely by intention: if ghosts prove too strong, say, they know that had nothing to do with the warpgate changes. If OTOH they buffed, say, hydras and toss started getting massacred by hydra busts, they couldn't be sure whether it was the warpgate change or the hydra change. I understand your point in that changing too much at the same time makes it hard to know what had the greatest effect on the game. I'm also trying to follow your thought on the patch changes to zerg and I'm gonna guess that you have spine crawlers and spore crawlers mixed up. Spore crawlers shot air. Otherwise it's just me being stupid and I dont get at all what kind of buff to zerg that is in this patch that you are talking about which they shouldnt do at the same time as the gateway/warpgate changes. | ||
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