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I thought catz post was hilarious surprised no one else did hahaha
If there are bronze league tornaments, silver league etc
Why can't there be a womens league? Why is it so important to some people that this doesn't happen? Its like gay marriage. It doesn't affect anyone but the people involved.
Ok, a woman will be more famous than equally skilled male counterparts yes, but its because it's usually so much harder for them because of cultural stigma. When one female does break through and does compete in major tournaments, it will be interesting because it's so rare. And the easiest way to foster female growth in the community is to have female only tournaments where they can relate to their peers. Male nerds are already ostracized somewhat. It's only the past few years with things like halo and call of duty that being a nerd has become acceptable thing to admit.
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Awaken already damnit! Stop subjecting yourselves to second-class tournaments and leagues! Become one with the community for who your are, not what you were born as!!!! GGGragahhhhhhhhHHHHHH!!!!!!! JUST WAKE UP!
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I see no issue with a female-only league or tournament. There are plenty of tournaments out there so male gamers shouldn't be raising arms over this since it's not like there is a lack of tournaments for them to compete in.
Although, I disagree with Catz about it being harder to be a female gamer since on average most of their female friends won't be competitive rts gamers. There are plenty of decent guys out there who would and do befriend girl gamers and thus they have the same opportunity to surround themselves with sc2 friends and potentially teammates to help them practice, theorycraft,and grow. The only disadvantage of being a female gamer is the crap you have to put up with being involved in a male-dominated scene and more so in one dominated by nerdy males! Female gamers get treated as pieces of meat or insulted for their looks by a significant portion of male gamers due to the anonymity of the internet (which is a huge part of eSports scene).
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On May 05 2011 05:13 Chainfire99 wrote:
I see no issue with a female-only league or tournament. There are plenty of tournaments out there so male gamers shouldn't be raising arms over this since it's not like there is a lack of tournaments for them to compete in.
Although, I disagree with Catz about it being harder to be a female gamer since on average most of their female friends won't be competitive rts gamers. There are plenty of decent guys out there who would and do befriend girl gamers and thus they have the same opportunity to surround themselves with sc2 friends and potentially teammates to help them practice, theorycraft,and grow. The only disadvantage of being a female gamer is the crap you have to put up with being involved in a male-dominated scene and more so in one dominated by nerdy males! Female gamers get treated as pieces of meat or insulted for their looks by a significant portion of male gamers due to the anonymity of the internet (which is a huge part of eSports scene).
Just because Catz is cool and funny and handsome and pro doesn't mean you all should constantly refer to his arguments in these cases. Sure he made us all laugh by the Destiny story, but regardless of your love of Catz, try not to only use him as the reference hear to cite over and over as the word of truth and reason. That title is mine.
Now go back and read my first post in this thread and make me an argument that I can respond to.
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I don't love Catz at all lol. I am a Terran so I stick to being fans of specific pro terran players. I was merely commenting on his post because I chose to.
Female-only tournaments are not going to hurt the scene. So if there is no harm there is no foul. I don't know what your agenda is buddy but your argument is rendered moot because it is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Complain and whine about something worthwhile and significant. This is a non-issue.
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winning just feels good, doesn't it?! congrats!
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ehhm, how do i delete my posts?
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On May 05 2011 03:32 denzelz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 02:40 Alizee- wrote:
CatZ I don't think you could of said ROOTDestiny anymore times. I think personally unless the female gamers are models and competiting in bikinis or something, there's not much point to a female league. Its like the one guy on here that's got a disability but doin his best. We don't give him a handicap league, no he says I'm gonna kick ass all the same despite the odds.
I guess its cool that girls wanna play too, but you have to be careful about them getting equal attention, why? Because if you're getting as much exposure and benefits as someone who is better than you it degrades the "sport".
Baseball is hugely successful, girls play mostly softball, nothing stops baseball from being successful because its only guys. Or even a better example, I used to race karts, go-carts just actually fast and anyhow, girls raced, one friend of mine even won a lot. Its a gender neutral sport and in this case even more so.
Saying guys and girls are wired different and all the other crap is irrelevant. I just don't think its a good thing to spotlight people who win something in a handicapped environment. You have lets say a masters level tournament, there might be a guy who never wins them because top players play in them, but yet that same guy might very well be able to wipe the floor with the "girl gamers" anyday. Is this logical or productive for the scene? I'd be inclined to say no.
Really its beneficial largely to companies as they can increase marketing to new avenues to increase sales, that's about it. Grats and all, but here's my conclusion:
TLDR: Ok great she won a female cup, if she's got the skill then play in the "regular" tournaments as well and see what results you get. Lets not get skill bubbles popping up from segmented tournaments, any of the girls need to go out there and try their hand at the normal tournaments with no gender requirements. If this is all a stepping stone then use it as such and nothing more. Can someone please ban this guy? Why don't you go and complain about every tournament that features Gold level and lower players? You are saying that unless woman who play SC2 compete in bikinis, they are not allowed to form their own community? Don't read about female SC2 cup if you don't give a shit about it. We wouldn't miss your witty comments, trust me. You just ignored everything that Catz said in his amazing post and gave some bullshit example about how you used to drive go-kart. l2life.
Ironically you answered your own question. Essentially anyone can enter a gold level tournament the only requirement is that they are in that league. There are no physical restrictions, guy, girl, black, white, young, old. Nothing matters except that they're of similar skill, there's no bias or stripulations. I'm glad you love CatZ because he's a recognized name and therefore glorify any post he makes and discredit mine, but I have no business in that.
People want a way to feel accomplishment even when they're in a vacuum. Frankly again to bring up my baseball analogy, no girls really play baseball specifically. Is that harmful to the sport? Clearly not. I'm all for encouraging people to play, but are the free, anyone can enter type tournaments not encouraging this already? Encouraging segments of the population just for sake of growth, even if the interest isn't sustainable is worthless long term.
Just to throw a random name out there, I see dde from sixjax in a lot of tournaments aside from the bigger stuff, I can play in a free to enter tournament not because I'm anything other than a person playing starcraft and I can play in it. I can try my best to win it all or maybe I'll just lose and learn something along the way. At the same time, maybe I'm not looking to get stomped and I'm in the gold league and I like the feel of a tournament format, even if its for nothing or even 5 bucks, but hey I'm in gold league and other than that, no matter who I am physically or where I came from or my experience or background I can compete against others. That's the beauty of electronic competition. There's already tournaments that are free to enter as well as tournaments that cater to different skill levels, why segment it anymore other than for the sake of some obscure rationalization that it promotes our community?
Other than for a popularity contest and a shallow image of self worth, these female only, right handed only, only have blond hair, etc. tournaments aren't doing anything for anyone other than as I said being good marketing for companies to make more money at best. I don't treat this as some sort of "they must be stopped!" type situation, but people wonder where the criticism comes from and why and I feel like myself and other posters pretty clearly explain why its not helping anyone in the end.
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But it is helping the female gamers as far as building confidence and experience playing in tournaments. Furthermore, it's adding some variety to the eSports scene for those who are intrigued about watching female gamers go at it. Sure it is playing to novelty of female gamers (to the rts genre specifically) but it's variety all the same and isn't that the spice of life? I see zero downside to these gender-restrictive tournaments to the current landscape of competitive sc2.
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awesome interview EZPikachu! keep it up... and congrats to you flo
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On May 05 2011 08:05 Alizee- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 05 2011 03:32 denzelz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 02:40 Alizee- wrote:
CatZ I don't think you could of said ROOTDestiny anymore times. I think personally unless the female gamers are models and competiting in bikinis or something, there's not much point to a female league. Its like the one guy on here that's got a disability but doin his best. We don't give him a handicap league, no he says I'm gonna kick ass all the same despite the odds.
I guess its cool that girls wanna play too, but you have to be careful about them getting equal attention, why? Because if you're getting as much exposure and benefits as someone who is better than you it degrades the "sport".
Baseball is hugely successful, girls play mostly softball, nothing stops baseball from being successful because its only guys. Or even a better example, I used to race karts, go-carts just actually fast and anyhow, girls raced, one friend of mine even won a lot. Its a gender neutral sport and in this case even more so.
Saying guys and girls are wired different and all the other crap is irrelevant. I just don't think its a good thing to spotlight people who win something in a handicapped environment. You have lets say a masters level tournament, there might be a guy who never wins them because top players play in them, but yet that same guy might very well be able to wipe the floor with the "girl gamers" anyday. Is this logical or productive for the scene? I'd be inclined to say no.
Really its beneficial largely to companies as they can increase marketing to new avenues to increase sales, that's about it. Grats and all, but here's my conclusion:
TLDR: Ok great she won a female cup, if she's got the skill then play in the "regular" tournaments as well and see what results you get. Lets not get skill bubbles popping up from segmented tournaments, any of the girls need to go out there and try their hand at the normal tournaments with no gender requirements. If this is all a stepping stone then use it as such and nothing more. Can someone please ban this guy? Why don't you go and complain about every tournament that features Gold level and lower players? You are saying that unless woman who play SC2 compete in bikinis, they are not allowed to form their own community? Don't read about female SC2 cup if you don't give a shit about it. We wouldn't miss your witty comments, trust me. You just ignored everything that Catz said in his amazing post and gave some bullshit example about how you used to drive go-kart. l2life. Ironically you answered your own question. Essentially anyone can enter a gold level tournament the only requirement is that they are in that league. There are no physical restrictions, guy, girl, black, white, young, old. Nothing matters except that they're of similar skill, there's no bias or stripulations. I'm glad you love CatZ because he's a recognized name and therefore glorify any post he makes and discredit mine, but I have no business in that. People want a way to feel accomplishment even when they're in a vacuum. Frankly again to bring up my baseball analogy, no girls really play baseball specifically. Is that harmful to the sport? Clearly not. I'm all for encouraging people to play, but are the free, anyone can enter type tournaments not encouraging this already? Encouraging segments of the population just for sake of growth, even if the interest isn't sustainable is worthless long term. Just to throw a random name out there, I see dde from sixjax in a lot of tournaments aside from the bigger stuff, I can play in a free to enter tournament not because I'm anything other than a person playing starcraft and I can play in it. I can try my best to win it all or maybe I'll just lose and learn something along the way. At the same time, maybe I'm not looking to get stomped and I'm in the gold league and I like the feel of a tournament format, even if its for nothing or even 5 bucks, but hey I'm in gold league and other than that, no matter who I am physically or where I came from or my experience or background I can compete against others. That's the beauty of electronic competition. There's already tournaments that are free to enter as well as tournaments that cater to different skill levels, why segment it anymore other than for the sake of some obscure rationalization that it promotes our community? Other than for a popularity contest and a shallow image of self worth, these female only, right handed only, only have blond hair, etc. tournaments aren't doing anything for anyone other than as I said being good marketing for companies to make more money at best. I don't treat this as some sort of "they must be stopped!" type situation, but people wonder where the criticism comes from and why and I feel like myself and other posters pretty clearly explain why its not helping anyone in the end.
I really do not see how small tournaments for a specific sub-group of SC2 players are hurting anyone. I think everything naturally balances itself out anyways. A day only has 24 hours and a week only seven days, and if a person's calendar is chock full with appointments, the big tournaments come out on top anyways with viewer numbers and participants. The added diversity of the special tournaments just spices life up a bit for the ones involved there.
Up to 1980 or so, my family was living on the eastern side of the iron wall in Europe. On that side, everyone was using the exact same four-door automobile. That was super efficient for engineers and manufacturers and maintenance etc. The same pattern was found everywhere in life there, not only car industry. I remember everyone in kindergarten was wearing the same uniform. Sorry for the stupid anecdote, but the thought cropped up when I was trying to find something negative about small tournaments. :>
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wait seriously people are whining about an all girl league? you guys dont have anything else in your miserable lives to whine about?
anyways...gratz to flo
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Oh the irony of this thread... the sheer number of ignorant and sexist comments in here precisely highlight why there is a desire for this kind of tournament in the first place. If there was truly no need for it, the only comments we would see here would be "awesome, congrats flo" and constructive crit or discussion about any upcoming tournaments.
The men in here making arrogant and degrading comments (EDIT for clarity: not all men, the specific men making those comments) about women and female tournaments clearly do not understand the issues (dare I say because they are men).
As a female gamer, like any other gamer, I seek to get involved with the community of a game I spend so much time on and really enjoy. As I talk to people in stream chats, or in Skype while helping friends out, the amount of problems I've had to deal with simply for being female are ridiculous. I've been sent all kinds of disgusting pictures, listened to the most filthy and demeaning language, been stalked and harassed-- by people who were perfectly willing to treat me as a decent human being until they found out I was female. In the mean time, my male friends simply don't know how to respond and they offer no support and encouragement. They have never been subjected to that kind of shit.
There are plenty of great guys who simply respond with-- "oh you're a girl; that's cool"-- and get right back to the game. But there is an enormous number who do not, and I am sure any woman who bothers trying to make friends and get involved in a gaming community in any way has stories of similar disgusting treatment.
Beyond that, there's this issue with not that many women play games in the first place. None of my female friends in real life have any interest in the games I play. It is frustrating because I wish they could watch tournaments with me and appreciate the game the way I do. It's the same kind of thing when we get the blogs every so often asking how to explain the game to a girlfriend or family member who just doesn't get it. It's discouraging when people just don't 'get' the things you care about.
A tournament like this is great, because it's an opportunity for women to meet other women. Hurrah, you can now have some female friends who play sc2! They understand and can sympathize with problems you may have! Maybe they are actually interested in other things you do (how depressing is it to try to talk to the majority of your male sc2 friends about your new dress, or your boyfriend?)! Now you don't feel so much like you are struggling against the odds, all alone.
A tournament like this doesn't hurt the males of this community. If any of you are having trouble making friends with other guys who play sc2, feel free to make a male only tournament to help guys meet other guys who game. I'm sure the women here would be glad to see you trying to foster a community of support for all the guys who feel alone as male gamers.
A tournament like this doesn't hurt the females of this community either. Participation doesn't bar women from playing in any other tournaments. In fact, it probably helps boost confidence for them. It allows for participation in a competitive event where you don't have to worry about being bashed for a loss because 'you're a girl', or where you get a plethora of unwanted attention for being the only woman. It's nerve-wracking and discouraging to be singled out that way. If you lose, you feel like you've not only failed yourself, but every other woman out there that then gets labeled as unable to play this game because of being female.
Well done flo. Well done every single woman who chose to participate in this event! I hope you are all encouraged to play more, to play better, to put up with the bullshit and not be discouraged by the disgusting treatment you are sometimes subjected to for your sex. I hope we see some of you competing as pros soon. 
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On May 05 2011 09:21 RedJustice wrote:Oh the irony of this thread... the sheer number of ignorant and sexist comments in here precisely highlight why there is a desire for this kind of tournament in the first place. If there was truly no need for it, the only comments we would see here would be "awesome, congrats flo" and constructive crit or discussion about any upcoming tournaments. The men in here making arrogant and degrading comments about women and female tournaments clearly do not understand the issues (dare I say because they are men). As a female gamer, like any other gamer, I seek to get involved with the community of a game I spend so much time on and really enjoy. As I talk to people in stream chats, or in Skype while helping friends out, the amount of problems I've had to deal with simply for being female are ridiculous. I've been sent all kinds of disgusting pictures, listened to the most filthy and demeaning language, been stalked and harassed-- by people who were perfectly willing to treat me as a decent human being until they found out I was female. In the mean time, my male friends simply don't know how to respond and they offer no support and encouragement. They have never been subjected to that kind of shit. There are plenty of great guys who simply respond with-- "oh you're a girl; that's cool"-- and get right back to the game. But there is an enormous number who do not, and I am sure any woman who bothers trying to make friends and get involved in a gaming community in any way has stories of similar disgusting treatment. Beyond that, there's this issue with not that many women play games in the first place. None of my female friends in real life have any interest in the games I play. It is frustrating because I wish they could watch tournaments with me and appreciate the game the way I do. It's the same kind of thing when we get the blogs every so often asking how to explain the game to a girlfriend or family member who just doesn't get it. It's discouraging when people just don't 'get' the things you care about. A tournament like this is great, because it's an opportunity for women to meet other women. Hurrah, you can now have some female friends who play sc2! They understand and can sympathize with problems you may have! Maybe they are actually interested in other things you do (how depressing is it to try to talk to the majority of your male sc2 friends about your new dress, or your boyfriend?)! Now you don't feel so much like you are struggling against the odds, all alone. A tournament like this doesn't hurt the males of this community. If any of you are having trouble making friends with other guys who play sc2, feel free to make a male only tournament to help guys meet other guys who game. I'm sure the women here would be glad to see you trying to foster a community of support for all the guys who feel alone as male gamers. A tournament like this doesn't hurt the females of this community either. Participation doesn't bar women from playing in any other tournaments. In fact, it probably helps boost confidence for them. It allows for participation in a competitive event where you don't have to worry about being bashed for a loss because 'you're a girl', or where you get a plethora of unwanted attention for being the only woman. It's nerve-wracking and discouraging to be singled out that way. If you lose, you feel like you've not only failed yourself, but every other woman out there that then gets labeled as unable to play this game because of being female. Well done flo. Well done every single woman who chose to participate in this event! I hope you are all encouraged to play more, to play better, to put up with the bullshit and not be discouraged by the disgusting treatment you are sometimes subjected to for your sex. I hope we see some of you competing as pros soon.
The men in here? Don't you mean some men? Not all of us in this thread are criticizing female-only tournaments. I don't see any issues with them at all. In fact, I enjoy the occasional female tournament from a viewer's perspective. Don't generalize all the people in this thread please. Other than that, I agree with everything you said. Well put. It's shameful how some internet guys degrade women.
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On May 05 2011 09:24 Chainfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 09:21 RedJustice wrote:Oh the irony of this thread... the sheer number of ignorant and sexist comments in here precisely highlight why there is a desire for this kind of tournament in the first place. If there was truly no need for it, the only comments we would see here would be "awesome, congrats flo" and constructive crit or discussion about any upcoming tournaments. The men in here making arrogant and degrading comments about women and female tournaments clearly do not understand the issues (dare I say because they are men). As a female gamer, like any other gamer, I seek to get involved with the community of a game I spend so much time on and really enjoy. As I talk to people in stream chats, or in Skype while helping friends out, the amount of problems I've had to deal with simply for being female are ridiculous. I've been sent all kinds of disgusting pictures, listened to the most filthy and demeaning language, been stalked and harassed-- by people who were perfectly willing to treat me as a decent human being until they found out I was female. In the mean time, my male friends simply don't know how to respond and they offer no support and encouragement. They have never been subjected to that kind of shit. There are plenty of great guys who simply respond with-- "oh you're a girl; that's cool"-- and get right back to the game. But there is an enormous number who do not, and I am sure any woman who bothers trying to make friends and get involved in a gaming community in any way has stories of similar disgusting treatment. Beyond that, there's this issue with not that many women play games in the first place. None of my female friends in real life have any interest in the games I play. It is frustrating because I wish they could watch tournaments with me and appreciate the game the way I do. It's the same kind of thing when we get the blogs every so often asking how to explain the game to a girlfriend or family member who just doesn't get it. It's discouraging when people just don't 'get' the things you care about. A tournament like this is great, because it's an opportunity for women to meet other women. Hurrah, you can now have some female friends who play sc2! They understand and can sympathize with problems you may have! Maybe they are actually interested in other things you do (how depressing is it to try to talk to the majority of your male sc2 friends about your new dress, or your boyfriend?)! Now you don't feel so much like you are struggling against the odds, all alone. A tournament like this doesn't hurt the males of this community. If any of you are having trouble making friends with other guys who play sc2, feel free to make a male only tournament to help guys meet other guys who game. I'm sure the women here would be glad to see you trying to foster a community of support for all the guys who feel alone as male gamers. A tournament like this doesn't hurt the females of this community either. Participation doesn't bar women from playing in any other tournaments. In fact, it probably helps boost confidence for them. It allows for participation in a competitive event where you don't have to worry about being bashed for a loss because 'you're a girl', or where you get a plethora of unwanted attention for being the only woman. It's nerve-wracking and discouraging to be singled out that way. If you lose, you feel like you've not only failed yourself, but every other woman out there that then gets labeled as unable to play this game because of being female. Well done flo. Well done every single woman who chose to participate in this event! I hope you are all encouraged to play more, to play better, to put up with the bullshit and not be discouraged by the disgusting treatment you are sometimes subjected to for your sex. I hope we see some of you competing as pros soon. The men in here? Don't you mean some men? Not all of us in this thread are criticizing female-only tournaments. I don't see any issues with them at all. In fact, I enjoy the occasional female tournament from a viewer's perspective. Don't generalize all the people in this thread please.
She adressed "men [...] making arrogant [...] comments" and was not generalizing.
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On May 05 2011 09:29 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 09:24 Chainfire99 wrote:On May 05 2011 09:21 RedJustice wrote:Oh the irony of this thread... the sheer number of ignorant and sexist comments in here precisely highlight why there is a desire for this kind of tournament in the first place. If there was truly no need for it, the only comments we would see here would be "awesome, congrats flo" and constructive crit or discussion about any upcoming tournaments. The men in here making arrogant and degrading comments about women and female tournaments clearly do not understand the issues (dare I say because they are men). As a female gamer, like any other gamer, I seek to get involved with the community of a game I spend so much time on and really enjoy. As I talk to people in stream chats, or in Skype while helping friends out, the amount of problems I've had to deal with simply for being female are ridiculous. I've been sent all kinds of disgusting pictures, listened to the most filthy and demeaning language, been stalked and harassed-- by people who were perfectly willing to treat me as a decent human being until they found out I was female. In the mean time, my male friends simply don't know how to respond and they offer no support and encouragement. They have never been subjected to that kind of shit. There are plenty of great guys who simply respond with-- "oh you're a girl; that's cool"-- and get right back to the game. But there is an enormous number who do not, and I am sure any woman who bothers trying to make friends and get involved in a gaming community in any way has stories of similar disgusting treatment. Beyond that, there's this issue with not that many women play games in the first place. None of my female friends in real life have any interest in the games I play. It is frustrating because I wish they could watch tournaments with me and appreciate the game the way I do. It's the same kind of thing when we get the blogs every so often asking how to explain the game to a girlfriend or family member who just doesn't get it. It's discouraging when people just don't 'get' the things you care about. A tournament like this is great, because it's an opportunity for women to meet other women. Hurrah, you can now have some female friends who play sc2! They understand and can sympathize with problems you may have! Maybe they are actually interested in other things you do (how depressing is it to try to talk to the majority of your male sc2 friends about your new dress, or your boyfriend?)! Now you don't feel so much like you are struggling against the odds, all alone. A tournament like this doesn't hurt the males of this community. If any of you are having trouble making friends with other guys who play sc2, feel free to make a male only tournament to help guys meet other guys who game. I'm sure the women here would be glad to see you trying to foster a community of support for all the guys who feel alone as male gamers. A tournament like this doesn't hurt the females of this community either. Participation doesn't bar women from playing in any other tournaments. In fact, it probably helps boost confidence for them. It allows for participation in a competitive event where you don't have to worry about being bashed for a loss because 'you're a girl', or where you get a plethora of unwanted attention for being the only woman. It's nerve-wracking and discouraging to be singled out that way. If you lose, you feel like you've not only failed yourself, but every other woman out there that then gets labeled as unable to play this game because of being female. Well done flo. Well done every single woman who chose to participate in this event! I hope you are all encouraged to play more, to play better, to put up with the bullshit and not be discouraged by the disgusting treatment you are sometimes subjected to for your sex. I hope we see some of you competing as pros soon. The men in here? Don't you mean some men? Not all of us in this thread are criticizing female-only tournaments. I don't see any issues with them at all. In fact, I enjoy the occasional female tournament from a viewer's perspective. Don't generalize all the people in this thread please. She adressed "men [...] making arrogant [...] comments" and was not generalizing.
Perhaps, I misread her post. My bad.
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To hear some of these kind of responses from a foreign BW community.. It seems maybe a bit hypocritical :p.
Obviously a female player has no inherent physical, or mental disadvantage. In just the same way foreigners didn't have any in BW, but because of cultural differences, social differences, infrastructural differences, and whatever else, there were less foreigner players capable of competing at the Korean pro level. So what did foreigners do? They made foreign tournaments.
Now I realize the reasons for the differences between Foreigners/Koreans are not exactly the same as the reason for the differences between Male/Female players. But I feel the same idea applies.
In the long run of course everyone wants there to be tournaments with both genders playing and no need for a female cup, but we're not at that stage yet. I think tournaments like this help us get to that stage though.
Oh and good interview . Good job Flo!
edit: Oh and if you didn't see the post Catz made, I think it does a good job explaining the situation.
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On May 05 2011 09:29 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 09:24 Chainfire99 wrote:On May 05 2011 09:21 RedJustice wrote:Oh the irony of this thread... the sheer number of ignorant and sexist comments in here precisely highlight why there is a desire for this kind of tournament in the first place. If there was truly no need for it, the only comments we would see here would be "awesome, congrats flo" and constructive crit or discussion about any upcoming tournaments. The men in here making arrogant and degrading comments about women and female tournaments clearly do not understand the issues (dare I say because they are men). As a female gamer, like any other gamer, I seek to get involved with the community of a game I spend so much time on and really enjoy. As I talk to people in stream chats, or in Skype while helping friends out, the amount of problems I've had to deal with simply for being female are ridiculous. I've been sent all kinds of disgusting pictures, listened to the most filthy and demeaning language, been stalked and harassed-- by people who were perfectly willing to treat me as a decent human being until they found out I was female. In the mean time, my male friends simply don't know how to respond and they offer no support and encouragement. They have never been subjected to that kind of shit. There are plenty of great guys who simply respond with-- "oh you're a girl; that's cool"-- and get right back to the game. But there is an enormous number who do not, and I am sure any woman who bothers trying to make friends and get involved in a gaming community in any way has stories of similar disgusting treatment. Beyond that, there's this issue with not that many women play games in the first place. None of my female friends in real life have any interest in the games I play. It is frustrating because I wish they could watch tournaments with me and appreciate the game the way I do. It's the same kind of thing when we get the blogs every so often asking how to explain the game to a girlfriend or family member who just doesn't get it. It's discouraging when people just don't 'get' the things you care about. A tournament like this is great, because it's an opportunity for women to meet other women. Hurrah, you can now have some female friends who play sc2! They understand and can sympathize with problems you may have! Maybe they are actually interested in other things you do (how depressing is it to try to talk to the majority of your male sc2 friends about your new dress, or your boyfriend?)! Now you don't feel so much like you are struggling against the odds, all alone. A tournament like this doesn't hurt the males of this community. If any of you are having trouble making friends with other guys who play sc2, feel free to make a male only tournament to help guys meet other guys who game. I'm sure the women here would be glad to see you trying to foster a community of support for all the guys who feel alone as male gamers. A tournament like this doesn't hurt the females of this community either. Participation doesn't bar women from playing in any other tournaments. In fact, it probably helps boost confidence for them. It allows for participation in a competitive event where you don't have to worry about being bashed for a loss because 'you're a girl', or where you get a plethora of unwanted attention for being the only woman. It's nerve-wracking and discouraging to be singled out that way. If you lose, you feel like you've not only failed yourself, but every other woman out there that then gets labeled as unable to play this game because of being female. Well done flo. Well done every single woman who chose to participate in this event! I hope you are all encouraged to play more, to play better, to put up with the bullshit and not be discouraged by the disgusting treatment you are sometimes subjected to for your sex. I hope we see some of you competing as pros soon. The men in here? Don't you mean some men? Not all of us in this thread are criticizing female-only tournaments. I don't see any issues with them at all. In fact, I enjoy the occasional female tournament from a viewer's perspective. Don't generalize all the people in this thread please. She adressed "men [...] making arrogant [...] comments" and was not generalizing.
That. Please don't misunderstand me-- I specifically meant the men making 'arrogant and degrading comments'. If you read through the pages I'm sure some of them will jump out at you as incredibly sexist and ignorant!
I certainly do not think all guys are like that, or that all guys in the sc2 community are like that! I have many sc2 friends who are male (read: 95% of them), and they are great guys. We watch tournaments together and play KOTHs together, stream together, talk on Skype all the time, etc. I'm glad for those friends and for all the great male members of the community who don't care about things like gender, because they just want to play the game. I just wish I had some more female friends who played sc2 as well, as I talked about in my post.
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EDIT: Fuck I quoted instead of editing... Sorry. >.<
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I don't think there should be female cups, though I'm not going to object that there is. I think it's sexist and purely exists for the novelty. There's no reason females can't enter male-dominated tournaments, right? There is no physical reason why males are better, I suppose the game just appeals more to males and males are typically the most dedicated gamers.
I liked the CS dynamic of having female teams. I just think in a 1v1 game where it purely comes down to individual skill, it's dumb to separate the genders.
Great interview though, well written. I think the controversy and such will prevent female cups like this ever becoming legit, which is sad for those involved.
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EPT
