On May 23 2011 02:23 Walls wrote: All the fellow zergs who are missing the defiler, Idra expains to us in this interview why the infestor is much better, so please go check it out and lets make this thread a place to discuss what zerg really needs.
He never says that the Infestor is better than the Defiler, just that its a good unit that has it place. (Unless i skipped that line).
On May 22 2011 19:52 Snickersnee wrote: Instead of saying I want all the old units.(Scourge Plz) I want blizz to actually give zerg units that aren't completely unoriginal. Also reworking the build tress would be a dream. T1 Hydra :D
Well, the new unit zerg had for WoL are almost all failed one. ( Roach, Corruptor ) So i can't disagree with bring old units who work. :d
I'd say the baneling was a pretty successful addition.
Otherwise, yeah, most of the new units are inferior to their BW counterparts.
On May 22 2011 19:52 Snickersnee wrote: Instead of saying I want all the old units.(Scourge Plz) I want blizz to actually give zerg units that aren't completely unoriginal. Also reworking the build tress would be a dream. T1 Hydra :D
Well, the new unit zerg had for WoL are almost all failed one. ( Roach, Corruptor ) So i can't disagree with bring old units who work. :d
I'd say the baneling was a pretty successful addition.
Otherwise, yeah, most of the new units are inferior to their BW counterparts.
Banenings are basically nerfed infested terrans. Remember the original? Yeah, they did the same damage as a nuclear missile.
There is two possibilities of advancing of this game...
Version 1 is brutal and it bases on death balls. The more brutal this game will be the more it will be remind of BW ZvZ or WoL PvP.
Possible units for version 1: Scourges, Dragoons, Goliaths or any other new straight war unit which can only attack with scream "THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAA"
Version 2 is more intelligent. This is more macro and strategy orriented game which remind of BW PvT, ZvT or even BW TvT with long games where all the map painted with colors of your and enemy units.
Possible units for version 2: Lurkers, Defilers, Arbiters, Vultures with Mines, Science Vessels or any other new unit which can hold position and make more damage in defence. It even can be more strong static defences like photon cannons and sunkens in BW. Anything that u can spam and be confident that your base will hold straight death ball attack.
On May 22 2011 19:52 Snickersnee wrote: Instead of saying I want all the old units.(Scourge Plz) I want blizz to actually give zerg units that aren't completely unoriginal. Also reworking the build tress would be a dream. T1 Hydra :D
Well, the new unit zerg had for WoL are almost all failed one. ( Roach, Corruptor ) So i can't disagree with bring old units who work. :d
I'd say the baneling was a pretty successful addition.
Otherwise, yeah, most of the new units are inferior to their BW counterparts.
How do you define success of a unit like the roach? It's used a ton, people use it's ability, not sure what else you can ask for from a combat unit like that.
The corruptor is just a renamed/slightly altered devourer, and it's about as shitty as the original.
He never says that the Infestor is better than the Defiler, just that its a good unit that has it place. (Unless i skipped that line).
Well he says dark swarm is a stupid ability, and that kind of defines the defiler...remember he played Terran in BW, and from Terran's POV dark swarm is a stupid, stupid ability. I'd agree personally, makes for a silly "catch the defiler!" game.
Zerg definitely needs a new caster, but please nothing like the defiler.
On May 22 2011 13:49 julianto wrote: I think having a separate ladder for HotS is a bad idea long term. I think they should let people who don't buy HotS use the new units so there is one metagame, but give people who buy the expansion pack many UI improvements, including alternative unit models.
this wasn't a problem in BW ... people who play SC2 online are all going to upgrade
On May 22 2011 13:49 julianto wrote: I think having a separate ladder for HotS is a bad idea long term. I think they should let people who don't buy HotS use the new units so there is one metagame, but give people who buy the expansion pack many UI improvements, including alternative unit models.
this wasn't a problem in BW ... people who play SC2 online are all going to upgrade
It only isnt a problem because Blizzard de-facto allowed piracy and private battle net bw servers, and servers hosting free downloads of the game. because blizz has a much more of a strong arm policy in regards to sc2, this is likely to be an important issue
On May 22 2011 19:52 Snickersnee wrote: Instead of saying I want all the old units.(Scourge Plz) I want blizz to actually give zerg units that aren't completely unoriginal. Also reworking the build tress would be a dream. T1 Hydra :D
Well, the new unit zerg had for WoL are almost all failed one. ( Roach, Corruptor ) So i can't disagree with bring old units who work. :d
I'd say the baneling was a pretty successful addition.
Otherwise, yeah, most of the new units are inferior to their BW counterparts.
How do you define success of a unit like the roach? It's used a ton, people use it's ability, not sure what else you can ask for from a combat unit like that.
The corruptor is just a renamed/slightly altered devourer, and it's about as shitty as the original
Usually people define success as:
1. Having a lot of micro potential AND/OR 2. Being a very entertaining unit to watch and play
The roach mostly fails on both of these because using them is very basic: You mass them up in deathballs and throw them at the enemy, occasionally using kite micro. They also aren't very interesting units to watch or play. You can pick dozens upon dozens of videos where the audience goes crazy watching reaver play, and even baneling play. You'll never see that for roaches. All they have is burrow, which at the moment is very situational.
On May 22 2011 19:52 Snickersnee wrote: Instead of saying I want all the old units.(Scourge Plz) I want blizz to actually give zerg units that aren't completely unoriginal. Also reworking the build tress would be a dream. T1 Hydra :D
Well, the new unit zerg had for WoL are almost all failed one. ( Roach, Corruptor ) So i can't disagree with bring old units who work. :d
I'd say the baneling was a pretty successful addition.
Otherwise, yeah, most of the new units are inferior to their BW counterparts.
How do you define success of a unit like the roach? It's used a ton, people use it's ability, not sure what else you can ask for from a combat unit like that.
The corruptor is just a renamed/slightly altered devourer, and it's about as shitty as the original
Usually people define success as:
1. Having a lot of micro potential AND/OR 2. Being a very entertaining unit to watch and play
The roach mostly fails on both of these because using them is very basic: You mass them up in deathballs and throw them at the enemy, occasionally using kite micro. They also aren't very interesting units to watch or play. You can pick dozens upon dozens of videos where the audience goes crazy watching reaver play, and even baneling play. You'll never see that for roaches. All they have is burrow, which at the moment is very situational.
you can't have only microable units. you also need solid core units.
hydras in bw weren't special either for instance. the roach was a successful implemented core unit for zerg ground combat, if you wanna see it that way
On May 22 2011 19:52 Snickersnee wrote: Instead of saying I want all the old units.(Scourge Plz) I want blizz to actually give zerg units that aren't completely unoriginal. Also reworking the build tress would be a dream. T1 Hydra :D
Well, the new unit zerg had for WoL are almost all failed one. ( Roach, Corruptor ) So i can't disagree with bring old units who work. :d
I'd say the baneling was a pretty successful addition.
Otherwise, yeah, most of the new units are inferior to their BW counterparts.
How do you define success of a unit like the roach? It's used a ton, people use it's ability, not sure what else you can ask for from a combat unit like that.
The corruptor is just a renamed/slightly altered devourer, and it's about as shitty as the original
Usually people define success as:
1. Having a lot of micro potential AND/OR 2. Being a very entertaining unit to watch and play
The roach mostly fails on both of these because using them is very basic: You mass them up in deathballs and throw them at the enemy, occasionally using kite micro. They also aren't very interesting units to watch or play. You can pick dozens upon dozens of videos where the audience goes crazy watching reaver play, and even baneling play. You'll never see that for roaches. All they have is burrow, which at the moment is very situational.
you can't have only microable units. you also need solid core units.
hydras in bw weren't special either for instance. the roach was a successful implemented core unit for zerg ground combat, if you wanna see it that way
Why do we "need" unmicroable core units? Marines are core units, yet they have insane amounts of micro potential in both BW and SC2. In fact, there are very few mindless 1a units in the Terran army in both SC games at the moment. Marines, tanks, vultures, hellions, dropships. All these are core units, yet have many unique, and most importantly, effective ways of being controlled. You mention BW hydras, but I would argue that even they had good micro potential due to the BW pathing system: you actually had to position them to retain max DPS, instead of them automatically balling up like in SC2.
There's a reason that T matchups almost always provide the most entertaining games in SC2, and their good unit design is a huge part of that.
RPG LIKE. The starcraft mechanics are still there. However, it probably follows Kerrigan much more, and perhaps controlling a few other zerg units. It will follow kerrigan in an RPG influenced way. HotS is NOT an RPG with no RTS aspects.
That being said I am very much looking forward to this. I remember doing this when I first saw the campaign reveal around a year and a half ago: + Show Spoiler +
I imagine that I will be similarly awed by the new units, cool abilities, and glimpse at the plot.
On May 22 2011 13:49 julianto wrote: I think having a separate ladder for HotS is a bad idea long term. I think they should let people who don't buy HotS use the new units so there is one metagame, but give people who buy the expansion pack many UI improvements, including alternative unit models.
this wasn't a problem in BW ... people who play SC2 online are all going to upgrade
It only isnt a problem because Blizzard de-facto allowed piracy and private battle net bw servers, and servers hosting free downloads of the game. because blizz has a much more of a strong arm policy in regards to sc2, this is likely to be an important issue
So the issue is paying for a product? I don't get it...
On May 23 2011 03:26 Denda Reloaded wrote: And one more question: is it a possibility that the guys that will play hots in may won't be allowed to talk about or post story/screenshots?
There may be a nda for a limited number of days (3-4)
On May 22 2011 19:52 Snickersnee wrote: Instead of saying I want all the old units.(Scourge Plz) I want blizz to actually give zerg units that aren't completely unoriginal. Also reworking the build tress would be a dream. T1 Hydra :D
Well, the new unit zerg had for WoL are almost all failed one. ( Roach, Corruptor ) So i can't disagree with bring old units who work. :d
I'd say the baneling was a pretty successful addition.
Otherwise, yeah, most of the new units are inferior to their BW counterparts.
How do you define success of a unit like the roach? It's used a ton, people use it's ability, not sure what else you can ask for from a combat unit like that.
The corruptor is just a renamed/slightly altered devourer, and it's about as shitty as the original
Usually people define success as:
1. Having a lot of micro potential AND/OR 2. Being a very entertaining unit to watch and play
The roach mostly fails on both of these because using them is very basic: You mass them up in deathballs and throw them at the enemy, occasionally using kite micro. They also aren't very interesting units to watch or play. You can pick dozens upon dozens of videos where the audience goes crazy watching reaver play, and even baneling play. You'll never see that for roaches. All they have is burrow, which at the moment is very situational.
you can't have only microable units. you also need solid core units.
hydras in bw weren't special either for instance. the roach was a successful implemented core unit for zerg ground combat, if you wanna see it that way
I think the problem is that ZvZ and ZvP are mostly huge roaches army. There's not a problem with having a backbone to your army, but it's almost 90% of roaches and nothing really exiting with them.
Hydra + Lurker is hella more entertaining than, let's say Roaches infestor battle in ZvZ, or a massive roach corurptor army in ZvP.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/861/wol.png/)
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