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6-7 Pool to Top 400 NA - Your Thoughts? - Page 16

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Elothis
Profile Joined March 2011
111 Posts
April 11 2011 17:57 GMT
#301
these are the right words for such a thread
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6566 Posts
April 11 2011 18:00 GMT
#302
you can get top 200 or w/e by doing any build. you're just playing a whole bunch of bo1's it's not like you're playing against genius tournament players every game. 4gate would prob be just as effective if not more so
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Fries
Profile Joined August 2010
United States124 Posts
April 11 2011 18:15 GMT
#303
I have to chuckle at people making suggestions on how to remove cheese. It's impossible to do. Literally impossible. No matter what you add to the game to slow down rushes, there is always going to be that fastest possible rush that will be considered cheese.

On topic, as a P (not highly ranked) I also find it very hard to hold off a 6 pool if scouting in the wrong order. It can be extremely frustrating to lose to but I kind of like it because it's good for working on your crisis management. Terran rushes still give me the most trouble.
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
April 11 2011 18:30 GMT
#304
On April 11 2011 23:27 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
Win ratio vs Terran: ~15-20%
Win ratio vs Zerg: ~65-75%
Win ratio vs Protoss: ~85-95%


Clearly Protoss players on ladder play WAY too greedy. Zergs just need to start 6pooling ~40% of the time on 4-player maps against them and eventually they'll have to start going 10-gate or whatever. I mean, when you think about it, gate on 14 is quite a lot of probes before production. Forcing a toss player to be more conservative early is the obvious way to get a slight advantage later on in the game.


13 gate can EASILY stop a 6 pool (i've never used 14 gate, but I assume it can as well), so tosses really don't need to change their builds.

TrickyGilligan
Profile Joined September 2010
United States641 Posts
April 11 2011 18:41 GMT
#305
I`ve seen way more Masters level 6-pools since the new season started. It seems especially common on maps where Forge FEs are common, I guess that build has become common enough in the metagame that some Z players are just blind countering. Makes PvZ kinda boring IMO.z just 3 gate sentry expand every single game, seems to be the only safe build.
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it." -Groucho Marx
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
April 11 2011 18:47 GMT
#306
how do you stop 6 pool while FEing as protoss?
Vendettta
Profile Joined March 2011
9 Posts
April 11 2011 18:49 GMT
#307
After wasting much time reading most of the comments in this thread, I must say I wish people would think more before posting.

A large number of people said in the comments that it is easy for protoss to hold off a 6 pool.
The OP posted a freaking replay pack! He PROVED that it is not easy to hold off. How else did
he get his ranking? How can so many mindlessly (while bragging) say something that the
OP just proved is false?????

His ranking is a DIRECT reflection of the difficulty of defeating a 6 pool.
Though not designed to be a study, it seems to have been a fairly good method of
taking a reasonably rigorous example of just that.

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled by the entrails of the last priest
Neo.NEt
Profile Joined August 2010
United States785 Posts
April 11 2011 18:54 GMT
#308
Personally I think cheesy stuff like this ruins the game and I really wish ladder was BO 3 because of it. I've seen 2 different master leaguers who proxy gate EVERY SINGLE GAME. Both times I got lucky and my overlord saw the proxy gates and I can honestly say that after I held off the rush, those were the two absolute worst players I've ever played against. We're talking 31 probes 20 minutes into the game bad. I highly doubt these guys could compete with platinum players yet they were both pretty high in master league...
Apologize.
TrickyGilligan
Profile Joined September 2010
United States641 Posts
April 11 2011 19:03 GMT
#309
On April 12 2011 03:47 Cheerio wrote:
how do you stop 6 pool while FEing as protoss?

You don`t. You need a wall to hold a 6 pool as P, and there`s just no way to have a wall at your natural and a nexus before the lings show up, there`s just simply not enough minerals minerals to do that in time, even on the larger maps. Best case scenario is you cancel the nexus as soon as you scout the fast pool and wall in your main, but that`s assuming you scout in time.
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it." -Groucho Marx
Varpulis
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2517 Posts
April 11 2011 19:06 GMT
#310
On April 12 2011 03:54 Neo.NEt wrote:
Personally I think cheesy stuff like this ruins the game and I really wish ladder was BO 3 because of it. I've seen 2 different master leaguers who proxy gate EVERY SINGLE GAME. Both times I got lucky and my overlord saw the proxy gates and I can honestly say that after I held off the rush, those were the two absolute worst players I've ever played against. We're talking 31 probes 20 minutes into the game bad. I highly doubt these guys could compete with platinum players yet they were both pretty high in master league...

If they're such bad players then you should take your free win and feel good about yourself. Cheese is a part of the game, and people need to learn to deal with it. A bo3 ladder would cause more problems than it would fix, anyway.
For he is the Oystermeister, lord of all the oysters.
vahgar.r24
Profile Joined October 2010
India465 Posts
April 11 2011 19:13 GMT
#311
Maybe on 2 player maps, but on 4 u need to take a chance. 1 Spot ur OL will find out the next u need to take a chance and hope. Else its gg toss will boost his gate and 1 zeal + prbes will pwn u
Somethings are just worth fighting for
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
April 11 2011 19:16 GMT
#312
6pool or even 7pool is great in a bo3 or more, but it's pretty useless in the ladder... You play to train yourself, what do you train by going 7pool ? Nothing, it's just like 4gate, retarded build that are great for mind gaming purpose, but useless in a bo1 game, unless you only play to get a nerd boner watching the victory screen.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Jonas :)
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States511 Posts
April 11 2011 19:32 GMT
#313
On April 12 2011 04:16 WhiteDog wrote:
6pool or even 7pool is great in a bo3 or more, but it's pretty useless in the ladder... You play to train yourself, what do you train by going 7pool ? Nothing, it's just like 4gate, retarded build that are great for mind gaming purpose, but useless in a bo1 game, unless you only play to get a nerd boner watching the victory screen.


You have to practice these builds somewhere =)
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
April 11 2011 19:42 GMT
#314
On April 12 2011 04:13 vahgar.r24 wrote:
Maybe on 2 player maps, but on 4 u need to take a chance. 1 Spot ur OL will find out the next u need to take a chance and hope. Else its gg toss will boost his gate and 1 zeal + prbes will pwn u


i actually prefer to do 6/7 pool on 4 player maps, where it is less expected.
as for the timing of scouting, when you scout little after the pool starts, 1 overlord will be close to the adjacent base and the drone should arrive to the other base, at the same time, the lings will spawn and head towards the middle of the map. the timing works out quite nicely on 4 player maps.

with 2x DET + 4 more lings, 1zeal and probes will fall.
the point of 6 initial lings are to rid of mining time by attacking gateway or pylon and pick off workers when possible. when more lings arrive, there isn't much protoss can do.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Albrithe
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada187 Posts
April 11 2011 19:42 GMT
#315
After reading the win rate you get vs Protoss masters, I feel really good about not losing to any 6 pools in Platinum league since the ladder reset. That being said, it's only happened to me on Typhon Peaks (of all maps...)
"You don't need a condom... to get up on 'dem..." -Zach Weiner
AgentSmith
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada91 Posts
April 11 2011 19:46 GMT
#316
6 pooling has been proven to be effective sometimes even in pro levels. If I'm not mistaken ST_JULY 6pooled anypro in the semis of the last GSL game 1
I'm a total noob!
Aberu
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States968 Posts
April 11 2011 19:47 GMT
#317
On April 11 2011 07:15 rottenpotato wrote:
Let me start by saying that I don't condone in any way cheesing, especially to the extreme that I took it that week. I don't play like this.


That disclaimer is unnecessary man, don't beat yourself up. Cheese is a strategy. Either you abuse the advantage you may possibly have by making 6 lings before they can have a zealot, or they abuse the fact that you have little to no tech or economy to deal with a well timed gateway plus void ray timing attack. A strategy is a strategy.
srsly
rottenpotato
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada130 Posts
April 11 2011 19:51 GMT
#318
On April 12 2011 04:47 Aberu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2011 07:15 rottenpotato wrote:
Let me start by saying that I don't condone in any way cheesing, especially to the extreme that I took it that week. I don't play like this.


That disclaimer is unnecessary man, don't beat yourself up. Cheese is a strategy. Either you abuse the advantage you may possibly have by making 6 lings before they can have a zealot, or they abuse the fact that you have little to no tech or economy to deal with a well timed gateway plus void ray timing attack. A strategy is a strategy.


I have the same thought process as you do, but the community doesn't.

That being said, I really don't play like that and I really don't enjoy all-ins from anyone. I didn't have fun that week, although some of the chat made me smile
adius
Profile Joined May 2007
United States249 Posts
April 11 2011 19:54 GMT
#319
If you're trying to talk about SC2 rushes the way people discussed BW rushes, you're wrong. Everyone at the top of ladder knows who CombatEX is and how he plays, and he still wins a crapload of games by playing that way. Same with PiQLiQ and a number of other players. The problem isn't that it's unbeatable, it's that it doesn't seem to be reliably beatable.
imareaver3
Profile Joined June 2010
United States906 Posts
April 11 2011 20:19 GMT
#320
On April 12 2011 04:54 adius wrote:
If you're trying to talk about SC2 rushes the way people discussed BW rushes, you're wrong. Everyone at the top of ladder knows who CombatEX is and how he plays, and he still wins a crapload of games by playing that way. Same with PiQLiQ and a number of other players. The problem isn't that it's unbeatable, it's that it doesn't seem to be reliably beatable.



It's because we (as players) don't have enough practice. If I were to just play a guy going 7-pool spine rush for two hours straight, I think I'd never lose to it again for a long time. But if I play one once a week, I forget all the lessons I learned from the last loss before I face the cheese again, so I lose. Problem is, most people can't/don't do that. However, I doubt that those all-ins would continue to work if they were practiced against, hence their rarity in high-level play.
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