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I know, I know another APM thread. But I feel I'm in a bit of a strange position.
I first started Starcraft II having never played an RTS seriously before. Obviously, I was low Bronze - I was pretty much terrible... now I'm high Diamond bordering on Master-league. However, I've heard from multiple people that my APM just isn't high enough for Master league. I usually hover around 60-70 APM in a game. I don't spam (obviously)... but I've seen players like HuK and Destiny stream and they DO play faster than I do, period.
The strange thing is that my APM has never increased. You always hear that just getting better at the game will make your APM naturally increase, but mine never has. I still play at the same speed I always have. I'm basically always out-APM'd in every game... win or lose.
So my questions are these: is it true that I'm just not playing fast enough to get into Master league (I do feel as though I've hit a bit of a plateau in my skill). If so, how can I increase my APM? Should I focus on actively playing faster until it just becomes natural to me?
Just as an aside, I play with Mouse Sensitivity at 63% and all of the scrolls at 60% each.
Thanks guys.
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Minigun became good and he was like only 80 tops.
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Doesnt mean a thing.
vVvTime plays at like 70-80 unless there is a battle. I think you are fine.. don't make apm be an excuse for bad macro and decision making
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What's your hotkey setup like? For me, I can look month to month and see an increase.
If you're not increasing, I can only assume that you possibly have an inefficient hotkey setup or your mechanics are off.
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Yeah 80 is fine as long as it doesn't involve spamming.
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Having high apm is good, but you don't need it to be masters. I'd say anywhere between 60-90 is a good amount. Apm is less the number itself and more how you use it. Minigun is a perfect example of a top 200 player with very low apm, and hes playing with some of the best of the best.
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60-70 apm used wisely is more than enough to get into Masters.
I am a masters player, average around 100-150 apm when I play toss but most of the time my opponents have apm similar to yours but even if I do better chronoboosting than them or better macro, it still wouldn't be big enough lead for me to take advantage of. That will affect pro players but not us for sure.
Also, when I play zerg, i hover around 150-200 apm while I never miss an inject (on a good day) for like 20 minutes, I am still sure it wouldn't make a huge difference. Biggest difference is deciding on tech route, upgrades and army composition.
So, APM is not important.
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On April 08 2011 11:08 Clicker wrote:
What's your hotkey setup like? For me, I can look month to month and see an increase.
If you're not increasing, I can only assume that you possibly have an inefficient hotkey setup or your mechanics are off.
It is possible. I play on Grid and I always have. I use 1-3 as attacking groups, 4 as my production buildings (I bind them all to one key and tab through them). 5 is my Nexus (or Nexi ^_~), and usually 0 and 9 will be Observers for some reason.
I do tend to bind my entire army to hotkey, save important units like Colossi or Immortals. That's something I'm trying to get better at because obviously that's not a particular great way to operate.
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sjow is know for having lowest APM (from progamers) and hes owning the place :D
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that being said, it can only help, since low apm players who do well are the exception, not the norm
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My roommate is masters terran and he has a max of about 70 apm, definitely not a big deal. Don't dwell on apm, as you get better your apm will naturally rise + it's hard to discern between usable and unusable apm.
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70 apm is enough to be masters as T or P, definately not Z, just to much to do as Z, I have around 210 real time apm, not sure what it is in-game (I use sc2 gears). but you should be fine, apm isnt really a huge stat, its what those actions are for
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You can get into masters with 60-70 apm, but obviously a pro would need more apm (not that much more, but more than 70).
However, if you want to increase your apm, and I think it can't hurt, you should start spamming. Just spamming to increase your actions will get you comfortable with playing at high speeds. Then, you can try and convert those actions into effective actions.
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Just an idea, maybe you dont know all the hot key tricks and its holding you back? You use the F1 keys and such?
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On April 08 2011 11:06 Skaggs wrote:
I know, I know another APM thread. But I feel I'm in a bit of a strange position.
I first started Starcraft II having never played an RTS seriously before. Obviously, I was low Bronze - I was pretty much terrible... now I'm high Diamond bordering on Master-league. However, I've heard from multiple people that my APM just isn't high enough for Master league. I usually hover around 60-70 APM in a game. I don't spam (obviously)... but I've seen players like HuK and Destiny stream and they DO play faster than I do, period.
The strange thing is that my APM has never increased. You always hear that just getting better at the game will make your APM naturally increase, but mine never has. I still play at the same speed I always have. I'm basically always out-APM'd in every game... win or lose.
So my questions are these: is it true that I'm just not playing fast enough to get into Master league (I do feel as though I've hit a bit of a plateau in my skill). If so, how can I increase my APM? Should I focus on actively playing faster until it just becomes natural to me?
Just as an aside, I play with Mouse Sensitivity at 63% and all of the scrolls at 60% each.
Thanks guys.
60-70 is definitely high enough to get into masters if you know what you're doing. Zerg requires a bit higher than the other two, but 70 is good enough for all races.
My apm has increased from 60ish to 90ish average since i started playing and i've stayed around the masters level the entire time. I've watched my apm a lot and tried to see how it was changing to try to get a gauge of if i'm playing fast enough, (as you seem to be doing too).
For the most part i've found it comes down to just forcing yourself to think and play faster than you do comfortably. And i don't mean spamming at all. Just forcing your hands and brain to work faster, sort of like when you're in crisis mode. It's very difficult to keep up and makes the game very mentally exhausting.
Edit: I suppose spamming could get you used to playing quicker. I'm not really sure though.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
A lot of the advice about apm is a holdover from BW, and simply doesn't apply in Sc2. While high apm is hardly a disadvantage, there are many top players who manage to hold their own at 70apm tops. So while your apm is on the low side, you simply don't need a good deal of apm to survive in Sc2 right now.
The key to your promotion probably lies in other areas. If you must focus on apm, you're probably best off performing strategies that are not particularly multi-task intensive, and instead practice your timings within that framework.
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On April 08 2011 11:12 vojnik wrote:
sjow is know for having lowest APM (from progamers) and hes owning the place :D
Does Sjow's number range around the low 100 area (that's what I thought I recalled). Either way, APM shouldn't make a difference if you want to get into masters, high APM can be useful if you can make use of it but it won't be anything game changing. I believe 70-80 or so is basically enough to do everything you need to get to masters.
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your apm increases because you have more actions that you want to do or need to do
as your skill increases, you are capable of controlling more things and have a good understanding of what needs to be done, so your apm has to go up
i remember vods of TLO in the beta, or anybody really. 110 was usually pretty high, now he's playing at much higher than that.
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APM increases with value the longer the games go. If you see yourself losing early or a little ways into the midgame, APM isn't your problem. Solidify your openings and timings and you'll win enough to get into masters, even with 30 APM.
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Some very interesting suggestions in the thread so far.
However, if you want to increase your apm, and I think it can't hurt, you should start spamming. Just spamming to increase your actions will get you comfortable with playing at high speeds. Then, you can try and convert those actions into effective actions.
I've tried this on a few occasions, actually. Just sort of forcing myself to do everything faster all the time. I feel like that's what I see when I watch like a pro gamer streaming - they do everything faster and most of it is pretty much useless spam. They don't actually do anything more than what I do most of the time, but it comes in handy when they actually need to be able to play that fast and it actually is that beneficial to be able to comfortably do things that quickly.
Anyway, when I was trying this out it just sort of felt really weird and I didn't really keep with it. Perhaps I should get back to it to try to get used to it.
Just an idea, maybe you dont know all the hot key tricks and its holding you back? You use the F1 keys and such?
I don't, actually... in fact, I didn't even know you could use those until very recently. Do most people use the F keys? I never really messed with them.
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EPT
