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Would love to watch an episode or two before I decided. I really wish this tournament will succeed and even though I love InControl he has shot himself in the foot alot of times during the making of this tournament, creating alot of uneccery haters.
If they just keep their hats on and create a good tournament all the haters will shut up and people will buy it.
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If the commentary is good, I'll be happy to pay. If it sucks, I'm not going to reward laziness.
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On April 03 2011 01:17 Nausea wrote: Gonna watch for free for a week or so, if it is good production then i will pay for it. Im just glad i wont have to struggle with the stupid GOMplayer that never wants to work.
i just have a question of you:
if you're not willing to shell out 20 bucks now, why would you wait an extra week and then potentially shell out 25 bucks (you'll save 20% if you buy it now?) I mean, if pinching pennies is worth that much, why is the opportunity cost of 20 dollars for (good) sc2 content (alright, let's play devil's advocate, and say that the casters do a terrible job, the programs are terrible, and everything sucks. You still have some of the BEST players in the world playing each other, so even if everything else is bad, the games will be GOOD.)
i'm just trying to understand why you're trying to save 20 bucks, when you'll end up paying 25 later, or, in all likelihood, you'll never buy it.
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These people are ridiculous who are complaining about it. 1080p stream for 3 months and it's only $20, stop bitching. These are probably the same people who say "What can I do for esports?" then start complaining as soon as it actually happens.
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On April 03 2011 01:02 BackTrack wrote: Just Paid for it and subscribed
And just to note...my god, what cheap buggers we have on TL...20 bucks? you honestly don't have 20 bucks for the guys putting hundreds of thousands of dollars into AT MINIMUM 3 seasons of NASL.TV? Wtf's the matter with you? do you have any idea how much time the average TL'er spends with starcraft in a single day? well neither do i, but if i take myself as an example it's a whole fuck of a lot of time a week, you're getting what you pay for
That's a pretty spurious argument. It's not necessarily about the price and whether or not you have the money to spend, at least to me. My concern stems from the fact that we're continuing to see more premium starcraft 2 services with monthly fees.
How many of these do you think can possibly be sustained? The starcraft 2 community is already a small (but growing) subset of the gaming population, how many people are going to be willing to plunk down monthly fees to support them all? The bottom line for alot of people is:
1) They don't have the time to watch all this content anyway, so why subscribe to multiple services?
2) They have an aversion to spending more than a set amount of money on vods per month.
Now I personally hope the NASL is successful with its business venture and all, but I can see a potential future where none of these big tournaments are economically viable because the viewers are spread just too thin across them.
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Gonna wait till I've seen a week of it.
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On April 03 2011 01:22 Oceaniax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2011 01:02 BackTrack wrote: Just Paid for it and subscribed
And just to note...my god, what cheap buggers we have on TL...20 bucks? you honestly don't have 20 bucks for the guys putting hundreds of thousands of dollars into AT MINIMUM 3 seasons of NASL.TV? Wtf's the matter with you? do you have any idea how much time the average TL'er spends with starcraft in a single day? well neither do i, but if i take myself as an example it's a whole fuck of a lot of time a week, you're getting what you pay for That's a pretty spurious argument. It's not necessarily about the price and whether or not you have the money to spend, at least to me. My concern stems from the fact that we're continuing to see more premium starcraft 2 services with monthly fees. How many of these do you think can possibly be sustained? The starcraft 2 community is already a small (but growing) subset of the gaming population, how many people are going to be willing to plunk down monthly fees to support them all? The bottom line for alot of people is: 1) They don't have the time to watch all this content anyway, so why subscribe to multiple services? 2) They have an aversion to spending more than a set amount of money on vods per month. Now I personally hope the NASL is successful with its business venture and all, but I can see a potential future where none of these big tournaments are economically viable because the viewers are spread just too thin across them.
just curious: what other services are popping up? what have monthly fees? almost everything i've seen is either 1) free, or 2) you pay only for vods (like this one). and 2, being primarily GOM.
i literally cannot think of anything aside from GOM and MLG HQ that cost money. MLG doesn't happen enough to make me want to buy a pass, and GOM i've never been as interested in their players, which is why i've decided to support NASL, for only 20 bucks.
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The whole lead up to the tournament seemed like a big mess to me, and if that one stream where the news was released was indicative of the quality of the NASL then I don't really think i would pay it. I'll wait to see a couple of games before i decide, but most likely i probably wont be purchasing a pass as I should be able to view most games live... With GSL its a different story.
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On April 03 2011 01:14 niteReloaded wrote: *bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch*
just fucking pay the money, stfu, and admit you'll love it.
If you like watching SC2, $20 is nothing for so much action. If you don't like watching SC2, you probly wouldn't buy it if it was $10.
I'm still undecided, mainly because I'm not a die-hard SC2 fan, but I still think this should be good value for money. That's the point. If you are a "hard core" sc2 player, it is value. If you are not, it's not value. How can eSports grow in the west with this system?
For the record, in my previews post, i do not argue the "value" of paying for SC2 streams/ vods, i argue that this is very specifically directed at those that are already very much in to the pro scene. New people are not encouraged to follow the scene, thus, eSporst can not truly grow in the west. Look at how SC:BW became what it is today in Korea, SC2 will fallow in the same way.
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On April 03 2011 00:25 arb wrote: Not paying for something i watch online ever.
And im not paying for anything with commercials either Everything will be online in the future (If it ain't already)
You're gonna miss out. What's the difference between buying a ticket to a sport stadium to watch matches than to buy an online ticket to watch eSport matches?
I don't get it
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On April 03 2011 00:30 Sapphire.lux wrote: Ok, here is my opinion on the hole thing, western eSports and all.
GSL established a precedent with the pay per view for HQ live and for VODS. This was controvercial at first and maybe it still is. The thing is though, GSL has a frekin TV company behind them. True professionals, the best casters in the world, the best players in the world, a every day lan/ live event. Even so, there have been problems here and there particularly in the first seasons. Is it free in Korea by any chance?
Now, in the west, the same model is being copied. Unfortunately, amateurs are doing this things (compared to professional TV people), the end product, even for a company with somewhat experience like MLG, the resulting product is ... very bad. Completely untested venues, line NASL, that had a very ugly start (the show match) start of with the same "demands" from their costumers as a very professional/ blizzard backed
I think this is a legitimate criticism. If anything, it sees like the NASL is investing too much in a large prize pool and technology and not enough in professional services.
They really need an experienced graphic designer and web developer, for instance.
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On April 03 2011 01:33 LittLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2011 00:25 arb wrote: Not paying for something i watch online ever.
And im not paying for anything with commercials either Everything will be online in the future (If it ain't already) You're gonna miss out. What's the difference between buying a ticket to a sport stadium to watch matches than to buy an online ticket to watch eSport matches? I don't get it One can be gotten free through a restream and the other not?  Anyway, you can't compare those tbh. Even if its online the finals are still played during a lan, why do you think that is? Because its simply way more exciting to see the players and sit in a full audience watching on a big screen compared to sitting on your computer watching it over the internet.
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On April 03 2011 01:35 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2011 00:30 Sapphire.lux wrote: Ok, here is my opinion on the hole thing, western eSports and all.
GSL established a precedent with the pay per view for HQ live and for VODS. This was controvercial at first and maybe it still is. The thing is though, GSL has a frekin TV company behind them. True professionals, the best casters in the world, the best players in the world, a every day lan/ live event. Even so, there have been problems here and there particularly in the first seasons. Is it free in Korea by any chance?
Now, in the west, the same model is being copied. Unfortunately, amateurs are doing this things (compared to professional TV people), the end product, even for a company with somewhat experience like MLG, the resulting product is ... very bad. Completely untested venues, line NASL, that had a very ugly start (the show match) start of with the same "demands" from their costumers as a very professional/ blizzard backed I think this is a legitimate criticism. If anything, it sees like the NASL is investing too much in a large prize pool and technology and not enough in professional services. They really need an experienced graphic designer and web developer, for instance.
This. If its going to be cast over justin.tv and the 'comercials' are just going to be the mods doing /comercial, and not actual sponsored comercials for the event then I'm probably not even going to watch the tourney.
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Did a search for this, but haven't found an answer. Where exactly do you enter the coupon code to get it down to $20? I got to the screen where you enter your credit card and it says "subscribe" and hadn't seen a box to enter the code.
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On April 03 2011 01:35 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2011 00:30 Sapphire.lux wrote: Ok, here is my opinion on the hole thing, western eSports and all.
GSL established a precedent with the pay per view for HQ live and for VODS. This was controvercial at first and maybe it still is. The thing is though, GSL has a frekin TV company behind them. True professionals, the best casters in the world, the best players in the world, a every day lan/ live event. Even so, there have been problems here and there particularly in the first seasons. Is it free in Korea by any chance?
Now, in the west, the same model is being copied. Unfortunately, amateurs are doing this things (compared to professional TV people), the end product, even for a company with somewhat experience like MLG, the resulting product is ... very bad. Completely untested venues, line NASL, that had a very ugly start (the show match) start of with the same "demands" from their costumers as a very professional/ blizzard backed I think this is a legitimate criticism. If anything, it sees like the NASL is investing too much in a large prize pool and technology and not enough in professional services. They really need an experienced graphic designer and web developer, for instance.
Yea, i can understand this concern, but i feel like it's similar when i graduated from college a few years ago and was looking for a job.
Everyone wanted to hire someone with 2-3 years experience. Unfortunately for me, it seemed EVERYONE wanted those years of experience. It's difficult to get the experience when no one will hire you because you have no experience.
At some point, someone has to take a chance and try it, which is why i'm willing to "gamble" on games with great players, and i'm sure these guys aren't COMPLETELY in the dark, and have some people with experience
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On April 03 2011 01:39 ColonelSeitan wrote: Did a search for this, but haven't found an answer. Where exactly do you enter the coupon code to get it down to $20? I got to the screen where you enter your credit card and it says "subscribe" and hadn't seen a box to enter the code.
when you sign up, below the credit card part, it says "Coupon Code" and has a little bitty box below it.
That's where you enter it.
edit sorry for double post
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On April 03 2011 01:25 reneg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2011 01:22 Oceaniax wrote:On April 03 2011 01:02 BackTrack wrote: Just Paid for it and subscribed
And just to note...my god, what cheap buggers we have on TL...20 bucks? you honestly don't have 20 bucks for the guys putting hundreds of thousands of dollars into AT MINIMUM 3 seasons of NASL.TV? Wtf's the matter with you? do you have any idea how much time the average TL'er spends with starcraft in a single day? well neither do i, but if i take myself as an example it's a whole fuck of a lot of time a week, you're getting what you pay for That's a pretty spurious argument. It's not necessarily about the price and whether or not you have the money to spend, at least to me. My concern stems from the fact that we're continuing to see more premium starcraft 2 services with monthly fees. How many of these do you think can possibly be sustained? The starcraft 2 community is already a small (but growing) subset of the gaming population, how many people are going to be willing to plunk down monthly fees to support them all? The bottom line for alot of people is: 1) They don't have the time to watch all this content anyway, so why subscribe to multiple services? 2) They have an aversion to spending more than a set amount of money on vods per month. Now I personally hope the NASL is successful with its business venture and all, but I can see a potential future where none of these big tournaments are economically viable because the viewers are spread just too thin across them. just curious: what other services are popping up? what have monthly fees? almost everything i've seen is either 1) free, or 2) you pay only for vods (like this one). and 2, being primarily GOM. i literally cannot think of anything aside from GOM and MLG HQ that cost money. MLG doesn't happen enough to make me want to buy a pass, and GOM i've never been as interested in their players, which is why i've decided to support NASL, for only 20 bucks.
GOM, MLG & NASL are the three that come to mind, as you've mentioned. If you're one of the people who isn't interested in MLG and/or GOM, then NASL is probably a good fit for you, but I don't necessarily think you're the norm. Most people who aren't averse to paying for premium sc2 content are likely subscribed to one or both (I personally am).
It's those very same people that NASL is appealing to subscribe to their premium services as well, and I can't speak for everyone, but I know it's made me at least sit down and think "how much money am i really willing to spend on this hobby a month?" and "Do I really have time to watch this even if I subscribe?".
If NASL thinks they have the players & the production to make consumers choose it over the other options I wish them the very best, and hope they're right. However if they're hoping to share concurrent paying customers with other leagues, I think it's a dicey business model.
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Reading this thread there is so many different arguements going on,
#1 I just don't want to pay for sc2 HQ Streams or Vods because i dont have the money. Ok thats fine.
#2 There are the people who expect it to be perfect from the beginning and thats just not the case. The NASL is not going to start off amazingly, i assume everyone remembers what happened when GSL first started with starcraft 2, the first season was somewhat of a disaster but after that it improved and became as amazing as it is now. If you do buy these season tickets it shows support, you should not expect the tournaments to be perfect immediatly, yes NASL has made alot of mistakes thus far but they are showing they want to improve and change things for the better. NASL will improve and it will get better over time. Paying 20$ for 3 months of starcraft content and a 1080p stream is an AMAZING deal, simply AMAZING you will be getting your moneys worth. You have to remember though, e-sports in the west is young, Starcraft 2 is young, it IS growing, but this new tournament, NASL will start off with plenty of mistakes but will grow and become a great tournament. It is the beginning of e-sports booming in the west even more-so than it is already.
#3 People saying there is to many tournaments and e-sports is just to small, that is bullshit, e-sports is growing so fast becoming bigger and bigger everywhere in the world. People that dont even play starcraft 2 do watch Starcraft 2 games still. I have friends that never played a computer game in thier life coming over to watch the GSL, and friends who are jocks coming over drinking and when some korean dude that they just know from watching the GSL is playing they are jumping up and down so excited that someone they enjoy watching is playing.
In reality there are just way to many negative people who are looking for reasons to complain.
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even though i think its a bit pricey, id want to support it as much as possible because it will lead the way for e-sports in the west.
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On April 03 2011 01:43 Oceaniax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2011 01:25 reneg wrote:On April 03 2011 01:22 Oceaniax wrote:On April 03 2011 01:02 BackTrack wrote: Just Paid for it and subscribed
And just to note...my god, what cheap buggers we have on TL...20 bucks? you honestly don't have 20 bucks for the guys putting hundreds of thousands of dollars into AT MINIMUM 3 seasons of NASL.TV? Wtf's the matter with you? do you have any idea how much time the average TL'er spends with starcraft in a single day? well neither do i, but if i take myself as an example it's a whole fuck of a lot of time a week, you're getting what you pay for That's a pretty spurious argument. It's not necessarily about the price and whether or not you have the money to spend, at least to me. My concern stems from the fact that we're continuing to see more premium starcraft 2 services with monthly fees. How many of these do you think can possibly be sustained? The starcraft 2 community is already a small (but growing) subset of the gaming population, how many people are going to be willing to plunk down monthly fees to support them all? The bottom line for alot of people is: 1) They don't have the time to watch all this content anyway, so why subscribe to multiple services? 2) They have an aversion to spending more than a set amount of money on vods per month. Now I personally hope the NASL is successful with its business venture and all, but I can see a potential future where none of these big tournaments are economically viable because the viewers are spread just too thin across them. just curious: what other services are popping up? what have monthly fees? almost everything i've seen is either 1) free, or 2) you pay only for vods (like this one). and 2, being primarily GOM. i literally cannot think of anything aside from GOM and MLG HQ that cost money. MLG doesn't happen enough to make me want to buy a pass, and GOM i've never been as interested in their players, which is why i've decided to support NASL, for only 20 bucks. GOM, MLG & NASL are the three that come to mind, as you've mentioned. If you're one of the people who isn't interested in MLG and/or GOM, then NASL is probably a good fit for you, but I don't necessarily think you're the norm. Most people who aren't averse to paying for premium sc2 content are likely subscribed to one or both (I personally am). It's those very same people that NASL is appealing to subscribe to their premium services as well, and I can't speak for everyone, but I know it's made me at least sit down and think "how much money am i really willing to spend on this hobby a month?" and "Do I really have time to watch this even if I subscribe?". If NASL thinks they have the players & the production to make consumers choose it over the other options I wish them the very best, and hope they're right. However if they're hoping to share concurrent paying customers with other leagues, I think it's a dicey business model.
understood understood, and now that i'm thinking about it, paying for ALL of them at the time does start to add up, and so i can see how the market will eventually get segmented into chunks of, "well, we pay for THIS, and you pay for THAT," which i think we can all agree isn't ideal.
and i mean, i have a general feeling that the NASL free stream (ad supported), will be an enormous hit, and actually be what makes this take off. We'll have a large number of people tuning in during prime time, as opposed to people having to buy content to watch at not the wee-hours-of-the-morning, and it'll be really positive in general.
I honestly think that the NASL has the best model of games, because it IS more of a season, as opposed to a "season" which is really one really long tournament. And with nightly games, you watch it if you can, and if you can't, you don't. Just like regular sports.
It's going to be beautiful
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