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On March 24 2011 16:30 hidiliho wrote:
Inactive players are already losing practice time. When they do play they will probably lose more than they would initially compared to active players.
That's punishment enough.
After 2 months and a bit break this happened to me. I was rank ~15 Diamond with 2k rating (pre masters) and i came back, was rank 48 and lost a lot of games because of lack of practice. I got dropped to platinum and had to work my way up again, it was so painful 
I think it punishes you enough for inactivity the way it is now.
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My opinion is not lose points but I do think that 270 bonus pool demotion thing should be expanded to all leagues. Something like 270 demoted out of GM, 450 out of masters, 750 out of diamond. I also think people should be able to be promoted/demoted without playing if their MMR changes or point demotion kicks into effect.
I just think its really silly to see 50% of divisions as blatantly inactive...why am I competing with these 100 "similarly skilled" players if 50% of them havnt played in 3 months.
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No thats not how the ELO system works. It also shouldnt have a bonus pool -.-
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On March 24 2011 16:37 Grebliv wrote:
war3 had decay
sc2 has bonus pool ("reverse decay")
On March 24 2011 16:22 TzTz wrote:
inactive = not using bonus pool = losing points relative to active players...
This. Even though i would trade bonus points for a good decay system to get rid of point inflation, there is no need to have both systems at the same time.
If he has 1000 points more than you, even though he stopped playing a while ago, he
a.) was much more active than you while he played
b.) he is simple much better than you
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I wanna see people's MMR and get rid of the whole silly point system! You should too!
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YES players should loose points for inactivity.
The system blizzard currently uses with the bonus pool is terrible.
The way the system should work is that you loose x points or x% of points every x period of time, and any points lost go to a bonus pool.
As an example, let's say 0.1% of points lost every 6 hours.
As far as I understand, that will solve the stupid inflation issue, while not punishing low-level inactivity much, but still giving a small advantage (or better representation) of players who are playing regularly
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I don't think it should. There could be all sorts of things that might happen outside the player's control that could force them to not play, like moving to a new house/country or running out of time cuz of work or school. The player shouldn't be penalized for that.
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no, because I would have even less motivation to play again the longer I don't play.
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what does it matter? they arent gaining points if they are inactive (unless you count bonus pool, but everyone gets the same)
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I would cut the players who didn't play more then 5 weeks and make them to play another placement match. Styles and players are changing. If you were 2 months ago you have can be really easy platinum now if you didn't play. Something like that would be nice: inactive 1 week => -100 pts, 2 weeks -200 pts and so on.. after 5 weeks take that player out from ladder. when he is playing again put him back. easy...
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On March 24 2011 17:03 Xapti wrote:
YES players should loose points for inactivity.
The system blizzard currently uses with the bonus pool is terrible.
The way the system should work is that you loose x points or x% of points every x period of time, and any points lost go to a bonus pool.
As an example, let's say 0.1% of points lost every 6 hours.
As far as I understand, that will solve the stupid inflation issue, while not punishing low-level inactivity much, but still giving a small advantage (or better representation) of players who are playing regularly
Sorry, but that makes no sense at all. Your system doesnt punish inactivity, its just a random removal of points. Its not even equal for all players. You need to be more active as a player with many points than someone with less points to get the same amount of points per unit of time. Thats basically the opposite of what we want.
Again: The current system is indeed stupid, but it DOES punish inactivity. If you dont play, you dont use your bonus points, so you fall behind.
WC3: Inactive players get punished
SC2: Active players get rewarded
From a pure psychological standpoint the current system is much better. Of course it results in a stupid point inflation, so most people (me included) dont like it. But you definitely can see why blizzard is using this system and not the one from wc3.
Also, its lose, not loose. What language do people speak in canada?
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On March 24 2011 16:37 Grebliv wrote:
war3 had decay
sc2 has bonus pool ("reverse decay")
that is... very... very well said sir. I think i would like to see Master league players lose their spots if they don't play. Given that its only top 2% (on the most populated server lol) but still. I have a lot of friends who just get to masters and then go off and play 4's. And I can beat a lot of them on 70% handicap.
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it would be only option for master (GM already has devotion rule).
Below master it wouldnt make any sense.
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On March 24 2011 15:44 Gingerninja wrote:They do, it's called bonus pool. If you don't play your not collecting it and hence will be lower than other people who do. Instead of removing points, they give you points for playing to make you feel special.  Which I wish they wouldn't. I have 2.3k bonus pool. What the hell am I going to do with that? anyone buying?
You've misunderstood what the bonus poolis.
If you don't play your bonus pool will be higher, those guys who haven't played for 21 weeks will have a massive bonus pool, everyone gets roughly 12 points per day added to their bonus pool, meaning you essentially only need to win twice per day to use your new bonus pool.
They give you the points so that inactivity doesn't leave you behind, you can always catch up. Players who play alot will have no bonus pool. Those who have new accounts or don't play much will have a large bonus pool. Large bonus pool + high points should indicate the player is doing fairly well.
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i dont think you should punish blizzard if they have other things to do.
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Inactive players don't need more reasons to be deterred from laddering. I already have nearly 2k bonus pool and despite being matched against 3k diamond league players as even match I only have 1.2k points.
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On March 24 2011 17:30 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 15:44 Gingerninja wrote:They do, it's called bonus pool. If you don't play your not collecting it and hence will be lower than other people who do. Instead of removing points, they give you points for playing to make you feel special. Which I wish they wouldn't. I have 2.3k bonus pool. What the hell am I going to do with that? anyone buying? You've misunderstood what the bonus poolis. If you don't play your bonus pool will be higher, those guys who haven't played for 21 weeks will have a massive bonus pool, everyone gets roughly 12 points per day added to their bonus pool, meaning you essentially only need to win twice per day to use your new bonus pool. They give you the points so that inactivity doesn't leave you behind, you can always catch up. Players who play alot will have no bonus pool. Those who have new accounts or don't play much will have a large bonus pool. Large bonus pool + high points should indicate the player is doing fairly well.
Sorry, you didnt understand the bonus pool. Everyone (!) gets 12 points/day. Its doesnt matter if you are active or not. If you are inactive for some time, you have a lot of unused bonus points, thats true. But every active player already used these points. They got them too.. Sure, for some extend you do "catch up". But without bonus points you wouldnt even have to catch up in the first place.
Bonus points dont give you the ability do catch up. Because of them you have to catch up! Many people dont understand this. They think bonus points help them if they are inactive. And thats exactly why blizzard uses this system. I
If you are inactive (forever), you dont catch up. So you fall behind because of the bonus points. The system punishes you for not playing, even tough many players dont even recognize this.
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Bonus pool does effectively the same thing; it gives you a bonus for playing, instead of not punishing you for inactivity. Same outcome, only one feels nicer than the other. I'm pretty inactive (I struggle to find time to play), and so I have a massive ~2300 bonus pool.... I think I'd actually feel a bit of despair if every time I came back to play a game all my points kept being taken away. I'd feel like I wasn't getting anywhere, whereas right now I feel like I AM getting somewhere because my points are steadily increasing, but just not as fast as the people who have time to play more.
My opinion is not lose points but I do think that 270 bonus pool demotion thing should be expanded to all leagues. Something like 270 demoted out of GM, 450 out of masters, 750 out of diamond. I also think people should be able to be promoted/demoted without playing if their MMR changes or point demotion kicks into effect. Why? I may be "inactive" with my ~80 wins, but when I DO play I rock the socks off Diamond players. It doesn't make sense (to me at least) to move people like me down. We're still *insert league here* standard players, we just don't play as much as others, and the current system can demonstrate that quite clearly already.
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Losing points for inactivity would essentially be punishing people for having a life outside of starcraft. Contrary to popular belief starcraft is not the centre of the universe, and most people have commitments outside of it that will inevitably take them away from it. For example, I had a period of a two or three weeks where i couldn't play at all, because i was too damn busy with work, family and a million other things. At the end of the day points don't actually mean anything in relation to advancement up the ladder, the only thing it gives you is bragging rights.
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Nah, penalizing people for not grinding 24/7 is a pretty bad thing. I think Blizzard learned that with WOW.
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EPT
