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On March 23 2011 03:21 sleepingdog wrote:Wow thanks for this, I haven't realized they added those stupid "bridges" too - I mean what is this even, do they have employees with nothing to do and tell them "hmm....instead of just surfing bnet forums you could modify maps a bit, wouldn't that be great?" Don't get me wrong, it probably won't break match-ups. It's just...why...WHY do they have to modify a perfectly fine map (well, imo it's already a bit "too" large and wide open, but anyways), why couldn't the world just make sense.
What about siege drops? : /
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On March 23 2011 00:18 Dental Floss wrote:I would love to hear your explanation for this.
See the rocks represent our societies struggle to free up ressources spiritually, emotionally and culturally. What Blizzard is trying to say is that we need to open our eyes to the imminent shortage of our own natural ressources and thus have to scout out for new untapped fields, even if it means we have to look beyond the things that obscure our visible horizon.
It's quite poetic really. "Shoot the rocks" as in "Shoot for the stars" .
One might of course say that it's just Blizzards inability to look outside of the box and what they should do is just adjust the amount of mineral patches & geysers to cater to the game's mid-to-lategame where a farther and unsafer expansion has to be taken to create both tension in attacking and defending a larger area. But we can't all be GSL-mapper-rocket-scientists.
Hey, that's just talk. Blizzard is smart. They know what they are doing. Eventually.
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I enjoy how Blizzard can't have a map in the ladder pool without destructible rocks. How pathetic.
Oh well, I guess I can't complain too much, the ladder map pool is pretty baller now. Just gotta wait for them to remove Delta, slag, and backwater and replace them with GSL maps and it will be perfect. (does anyone play on delta or slag? Seriously?)
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My favorite change about Shakuras is that I think they change the map size by 1 or two units. If you play it you will notice that there is much more space around the outer edge of the map. (I think) This helps out to keep scouting overlords alive, and later helps out dropship and any air harass.
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I might need to think about un-veto-ing backwater, it may go from horrible to barely playable.
Shakuras looks good with those changes
Woo TDA!!
I hope the changes they made don't mess up the dynamic of the map too much...
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On March 23 2011 03:25 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 03:21 sleepingdog wrote:On March 23 2011 02:46 butter wrote:For comparison, the analyzer image of Tal'darim Altar: + Show Spoiler [TSL/GSL] ++ Show Spoiler [LE] +It's the same size overall. There were some other changes besides the third, such as the addition of a reaper/colossus path between the main and third. Wow thanks for this, I haven't realized they added those stupid "bridges" too - I mean what is this even, do they have employees with nothing to do and tell them "hmm....instead of just surfing bnet forums you could modify maps a bit, wouldn't that be great?" Don't get me wrong, it probably won't break match-ups. It's just...why...WHY do they have to modify a perfectly fine map (well, imo it's already a bit "too" large and wide open, but anyways), why couldn't the world just make sense. What about siege drops? : /
What you mean? The ledge is low-ground, dude I would go outside and insta-kill the first kitten in sight if Blizz added high-ground-cliffs.
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On March 23 2011 02:30 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 02:29 Gescom wrote:
Training for GSL using ladder? They aren't going to make changes that will benefit 0.0001% of the player base. They changed the map in a way they saw fit that would make it more appropriate for the bnet population at large. The bnet population at large never takes a 3rd base.
I'm thinking about writing a long post about this. A thought occurred to me that the reason the map pool is moving in the right direction kicking and screaming is because Blizzard is trying to ease the casuals into the concept macro games, so that it can then ease the casuals into "buying tickets to tournaments that pay us licensing fees". It actually explains a lot of their decisions really well.
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On March 23 2011 04:14 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 02:30 sleepingdog wrote:On March 23 2011 02:29 Gescom wrote:
Training for GSL using ladder? They aren't going to make changes that will benefit 0.0001% of the player base. They changed the map in a way they saw fit that would make it more appropriate for the bnet population at large. The bnet population at large never takes a 3rd base. I'm thinking about writing a long post about this. A thought occurred to me that the reason the map pool is moving in the right direction kicking and screaming is because Blizzard is trying to ease the casuals into the concept macro games, so that it can then ease the casuals into "buying tickets to tournaments that pay us licensing fees". It actually explains a lot of their decisions really well.
Sorry for my cynical posts, but if Blizz wanted the casuals to play macro-games, why on earth would they have started off with maps like steppes?
In all honesty, all my "casual"-gaming reallife friends HATE rushes, more precisely: DYING against rushes. Now they are used to one-base-play. But originally they wouldn't build units ever the first 10 minutes, just build every tech available because it's cool. Taking a 2nd base in this process would just be another step.
Blizz has a flawed concept about "what casuals want", I really don't know why, but about 90% of the low-level-players I know would love huge maps where they won't get rushed ever.
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On March 23 2011 04:17 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 04:14 Ribbon wrote:On March 23 2011 02:30 sleepingdog wrote:On March 23 2011 02:29 Gescom wrote:
Training for GSL using ladder? They aren't going to make changes that will benefit 0.0001% of the player base. They changed the map in a way they saw fit that would make it more appropriate for the bnet population at large. The bnet population at large never takes a 3rd base. I'm thinking about writing a long post about this. A thought occurred to me that the reason the map pool is moving in the right direction kicking and screaming is because Blizzard is trying to ease the casuals into the concept macro games, so that it can then ease the casuals into "buying tickets to tournaments that pay us licensing fees". It actually explains a lot of their decisions really well. Sorry for my cynical posts, but if Blizz wanted the casuals to play macro-games, why on earth would they have started off with maps like steppes?
To get them to buy the game in the first place, silly. Hence "ease". The game starts out as "fast exciting" one base maps like Steppes, evolves into two-base maps, and now we have 3 base maps like Typhon and TA LE. Slowly giving people who wouldn't be interested in a buying macro game more inclined to try them. And then to buy tickets to see them.
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On March 23 2011 03:48 P00RKID wrote:
My favorite change about Shakuras is that I think they change the map size by 1 or two units. If you play it you will notice that there is much more space around the outer edge of the map. (I think) This helps out to keep scouting overlords alive, and later helps out dropship and any air harass.
Yes, they added space at the bottom. The playable map dimensions went from 156×128 to 156×136.
Map analyzer images from the old ladder version and the new Shakuras Plateau v1.5 (confusingly added in patch 1.3):
+ Show Spoiler [2011-01-21] +
+ Show Spoiler [patch 1.3] +
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I love the new 3v3 map, looks sooo fun!
Gotta try to get a game on it later 
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On March 23 2011 04:21 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 04:17 sleepingdog wrote:On March 23 2011 04:14 Ribbon wrote:On March 23 2011 02:30 sleepingdog wrote:On March 23 2011 02:29 Gescom wrote:
Training for GSL using ladder? They aren't going to make changes that will benefit 0.0001% of the player base. They changed the map in a way they saw fit that would make it more appropriate for the bnet population at large. The bnet population at large never takes a 3rd base. I'm thinking about writing a long post about this. A thought occurred to me that the reason the map pool is moving in the right direction kicking and screaming is because Blizzard is trying to ease the casuals into the concept macro games, so that it can then ease the casuals into "buying tickets to tournaments that pay us licensing fees". It actually explains a lot of their decisions really well. Sorry for my cynical posts, but if Blizz wanted the casuals to play macro-games, why on earth would they have started off with maps like steppes? To get them to buy the game in the first place, silly. Hence "ease". The game starts out as "fast exciting" one base maps like Steppes, evolves into two-base maps, and now we have 3 base maps like Typhon and TA LE. Slowly giving people who wouldn't be interested in a buying macro game more inclined to try them. And then to buy tickets to see them.
It's only somewhat recently the community started to hate Steppes of War. Certainly the map's reception was very favorable in beta. And there have been plenty of macro games on Steppes of War, it was one of the maps you could most easily take three bases on and it produced some really fun games too.
Nowadays the game has been figured out too much for a map such as this to make it simply not safe to do a lot of things, but that wasn't always the case.
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On March 23 2011 04:23 butter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 03:48 P00RKID wrote:
My favorite change about Shakuras is that I think they change the map size by 1 or two units. If you play it you will notice that there is much more space around the outer edge of the map. (I think) This helps out to keep scouting overlords alive, and later helps out dropship and any air harass. Yes, they added space at the bottom. The playable map dimensions went from 156×128 to 156×136. Map analyzer images from the old ladder version and the new Shakuras Plateau v1.5 (confusingly added in patch 1.3): + Show Spoiler [2011-01-21] ++ Show Spoiler [patch 1.3] +
Thanks for the graphics, but I would like to point out the "average openness" is reduced.
Personally I think the changes are bad because they turn the map into a "regular map" which has one center space in which all fights are going to take place. No more skirting around on different routes and that was one thing which kept Shakuras Plateau interesting to watch. Protoss deathballs can never be on the "wrong side of the river" now and the same for Zerg swarms or Bioballs.
Terrans should have a much easier time since the four pillars in the middle seem to have become bigger (an illusion which is created by moving them a bit closer together).
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On March 23 2011 03:14 Dommk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 02:44 SovSov wrote:
They fucked up Tal Darim Alter.
They blocked the third and added a bridge in between the main and the third, which will allow Terran to make Zerg's life a living hell with Siege Tanks. But it is a low ground bridge though.... They will need spotters to see the high ground and nothing in the small area is immune to roach attacks (well, from one side yes, but not if Roaches are on both sides)
How do you think the Siege Tanks would get there in the first place? lol... The Terran will already have Medivacs. Then there will be Marines to protect them, you know, like in any other standard tank aggression? It's just now Lings/Banelings won't be able to reach the tanks by normal means, allowing them to stack up and take heavier shots to protect the Marine-legs.
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I think blizzard like rocks way to much in SC2
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Is the new shakuras cross positions only? becasue ive played on that map all day and only got cross
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So disappointed in the Tal'Darim rocks. Now I can't double expand early on. Sad panda.
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On March 23 2011 05:30 LEEKsc wrote:
So disappointed in the Tal'Darim rocks. Now I can't double expand early on. Sad panda.
Take another mains Natural.
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This adding rocks crap screams to me of a War3 map designer working on the SC2 team. Whoever it is is addicted to creep mechanics and probably invented the destructible rock widget. Boy oh boy Blizz, the whole idea of the half bases was to generate tension when it comes to taking expansions.
Also:
It's the same size overall. There were some other changes besides the third, such as the addition of a reaper/colossus path between the main and third.
Blizzard's map philosophy has been dominated by shoehorning features to make misdesigned units relevant. Its a shame.
On the bright side they are being receptive to the community, particular the pro/Esport community.
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Nice, but why does blizzard put a gazillion rocks on every map ^^
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/UTLCJ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/spJkF.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Inpti.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/dAFK9.jpg)
