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Is SC skill natural or trained? - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
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kvn4444
Profile Joined September 2010
1510 Posts
March 21 2011 19:25 GMT
#161
I would say mostly dedication to the game, learning good builds and knowing what counters what etc. some people pick it up quicker but eventually if those that don't continue playing and learning they can get just as good. only at the very top level, the professional level, does natural talent with hand speed/reaction time/mechanics and all that good stuff start to play a part. but i think anyone can reach high diamond/low-mid masters just by playing a lot.
peekn
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1152 Posts
March 21 2011 19:37 GMT
#162
It is without a doubt a combination of the two. Just like other athletes who are born with natural talent and also have to train and practice a ton in order to be successful at what they do, I don't see SC2 being any different. Just because it is a video game does not cause it to change what is required to be good at it.

For example the Korean pro-gamers all train about the same amount, however there are people who are great at it (Flash and Jaedong). This fact alone disproves your theory about a bronze level player once being in the GSL one day even if he practiced his little heart out.
zakmaa
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada525 Posts
March 21 2011 19:43 GMT
#163
I got the game three days after official release and had no prior RTS experience. I was placed in Bronze league. I didn't play a single practice game. Needless to say by December I was in Diamond league. I think that there is no natural "talent" directly related to this game, but I think that people that are more experienced with computer games (whether it be of the same genre or not) will have an easier time picking it up.

I also believe that people who are naturally more intelligent than others will have a better time with this game, since there's a lot of different situations and scenarios that you're presented with non-stop. I have one friend in particular that mentioned he'd like to play, but doesn't think that he'd ever be able to manage everything happening in the game, so he has yet to actually play it. I keep telling him to, though.

tl;dr the game has no talent required. It's the same as everything else: you put hard work and dedication into it, and you become better at it.
LocsomFKC
Profile Joined March 2011
Peru44 Posts
March 21 2011 19:50 GMT
#164
You just need to be smart.
StateSC2
Profile Joined September 2010
Korea (South)621 Posts
March 21 2011 19:50 GMT
#165
On March 21 2011 22:22 deL wrote:
I think the way your mind works and how you think takes place of those 'physical' or athletic attributes that you get in other sports (height for basketball, etc.) seeing SC2 is hardly just about the execution.


Yeah, I agree with deL. I think it's a mix of both training and natural skill. A person needs to have the right tools -- such as good hands and a mind apt for squishing Zergs -- for the potential to be there, and then the training and experience to actually capitalize on that potential.

It's more training than anything, but the skill ceiling varies from person to person.
Fireblast!: "This guy is pointless and wonderful"
L3gendary
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1470 Posts
March 21 2011 19:51 GMT
#166
On March 22 2011 04:43 zakmaa wrote:
tl;dr the game has no talent required. It's the same as everything else: you put hard work and dedication into it, and you become better at it.


I dont think anyone in this thread has said otherwise but thts not wat people are arguing about. The question is whether or not talent plays a role at all. If 2 people play the same amount are they definitely going to be about the same skill level?
Watching Jaedong play purifies my eyes. -Coach Ju Hoon
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
March 21 2011 19:52 GMT
#167
I believe it is a good combo of both, very similar to things like dancing. some people have a natural affinity which helps them along, but anyone can put in the effort and get good.
Chronald
Profile Joined December 2009
United States619 Posts
March 21 2011 19:52 GMT
#168
I can personally say that you can learn Starcraft from scratch to Master.

I have 2 friends who went from never playing, to being low master league. The way they did it? Practice. They practiced, watched replays, and asked questions. They tried to get better, and wanted to get better.

The thing that determines probably around 75% of your Starcraft skill is your determination. If you are determined and won't take failure or no for an answer, then you will get better. There isn't a skill ceiling yet, so don't get discouraged if you think you aren't getting better. Watch reps, practice more, break the plateau and keep getting better.
Got that.
frogmelter
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States971 Posts
March 21 2011 19:53 GMT
#169
Honestly I haven't worked especially hard for my master rank in SC2

However, I would say that I put in work for BW for several years so it's probably from that

Everyone is bad at the beginning, except people improve at different races
TL+ Member
Ownos
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2147 Posts
March 21 2011 19:54 GMT
#170
On March 22 2011 02:35 nipZ wrote:
so as any college student who went through their first year of gen psych would know, this is a matter of nature v nurture. in essence a very controversial subject to this day, but obviously in need of both sides. there is natural skill one can receive from their parents in form of ingenuity or quick wits, but a larger part would have to be trained even then. there are going to be naturals in anything but thats not to say that with enough proper practice and dedication that no one can make it to rank 1 masters or the gsl.


Skills gained from one activity can transfer to another. For example if you're good at fighting games you'll probably be good at other ones too. A better example is playing video games gave me good reaction times and this transferred to sports. It might give the illusion, especially if you're young, that you're "gifted." A lot of "genius" kids are often times trained hard by their parents (asian parents). But yeah I agree with you. There is limits on what you get from genetics.

Sometimes it is also a bit of chance. If you observe something you might observe something right away while others it could take years to see it. For example, I was terrible at math. I didn't "get it." Then during a college course, I just had an epiphany and math since then has been a cake walk. My easiest subject by far. It's not like ground out math problems till I understood it. In fact, I hadn't had a math course in years before then. Had I "got" math as a kid, I might have been called a natural at it.
...deeper and deeper into the bowels of El Diablo
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
March 21 2011 19:55 GMT
#171
it's mostly trained, bit of it is probably talent
EZjijy
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1039 Posts
March 21 2011 19:56 GMT
#172
It's obviously training based. However, prior rts gaming knowledge really helps because you generally have most of the basics of the game. I felt more comfortable moving into starcraft2 after quite a bit of war3 than my friends who've had little to none rts gaming experience.
ffdestiny
Profile Joined September 2010
United States773 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-21 20:03:58
March 21 2011 20:02 GMT
#173
StarCraft is a 100% trained skilled—there is no fairy or wizard in the sky that deems one person to be better than the other. "But why are there so many different styles of play?" I would answer back: "Why do people think that they're unique, different or somehow special? Given we're all the same species."

Talent is an abstract thought that we associate with any player that we believe to have an innate aptitude for the game. In reality, StarCraft is a game that asks the player to have a certain set of mechanics and lines of thinking—those who are better (as in more trained) at using those boundaries will be tagged as talented. Also, training is forever evolving. Day9 has been playing this game since he emerged from the womb. Don't ever doubt that he doesn't learn anything new on a daily basis. He does.
Aruno
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
New Zealand748 Posts
March 21 2011 20:06 GMT
#174
The answer is clear. Some people will be naturally better at Starcraft than others.

But overall, training is the major factor in turning average players into exceptional players.
aruno, arunoaj, aruno_aj | Those are my main aliases
JL_GG
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada249 Posts
March 21 2011 20:06 GMT
#175
u need natural talent for sure since one episode of National Geographic about starcraft 1 let scientists conduct research which discovers the brainwave of progamers are similar to pro poker players and different than normal people
that's y so many progamers are good at poker (eg. PJ, former best player in china is now pro poker player)
here is the link and watch from around 13:00 in which they will test the brainwave of progamers
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
March 21 2011 20:07 GMT
#176
On March 21 2011 23:08 intrigue wrote:
pretty good quote from idra:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2010 12:19 IdrA wrote:
you can spontaneously decide to be good at something and be successful if you can make yourself work at it. until the very very top, in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in, the only problem is most people cant work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they dont have a real passion for.


I was about to use that quote. I also think that having such great work ethic/passion to work is a natural talent in itself.
shadowboxer
Profile Joined November 2010
United States224 Posts
March 21 2011 20:10 GMT
#177
Those who are talented tend to be lazy. It's easy to feel like no effort is required because when you're talented, there really isn't that much effort required. Sc2 isn't the physically intense game that BW was and even though you can mess up a mechanic like getting roach warren 50% into lair tech instead of 25%, you're still generally on top of your game regardless of practice unless you're playing against a new build you've never seen before.
"Hear that? That's God laughing at your plans."
jstar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada568 Posts
March 21 2011 20:11 GMT
#178
meh if Sky from WC3 can do that well it proves that RTS are purely skill trained. He's a pretty dumb guy.
JackOscar
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden50 Posts
March 21 2011 20:16 GMT
#179
On March 22 2011 00:47 IdrA wrote:
you have to be able to think about the game in a certain way for practice to be productive.

otherwise you'll keep doing sentry zealot pushes no matter how many times your opponent builds roaches.



What the hell kind of an answer is that?!?! Judging from the title I expected your response to be " Neighter, all you need is a lucky coin and to play protoss"

Ever since the news of patch 1.3 came out it feels like your less depressed about SC2. Prob cause you're so exited about maybe having some sort of balance for a while.

I'm not sure I like it, Lol
"Guinnea pigs have more blood than rats and hamster" - Artosis
Reason.SC2
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1047 Posts
March 21 2011 20:16 GMT
#180
You can't get good at it without training a lot.

You can get good at it if you're not naturally talented. It will just take more effort from you than for someone who has a natural affinity for strategy games and intelligence.

That said however, the amount of work it would take if you have zero gaming experience is so high that it will likely discourage most people from bothering to become very good in the first place. If you don't really have a competitive drive and/or gaming experience I don't see any realistic way for you to become good at SC. For example, my mother (who I consider to be a very intelligent person) has pretty much no shot at getting good at SC even if she for some reason wanted to become a progamer (lol). The amount of time it would take to develop the control and fundamental skill that are absolutely necessary is kind of ridiculous. For a lot of us we don't notice this since even if we weren't rts players before SC, we have been gamers for a long time - or are at a young age where learning new skills comes much more easily.

So in sum, I'd say that training is more important than talent, but to a certain degree you need both to become very good at the game. (disclaimer: I don't consider masters to be 'very good' at the game - I'm talking about people who can be competitive in a tournament format - probably the top 1000 in the world)
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