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NASL: Koreans? Top Koreans? - Page 75

Forum Index > SC2 General
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KoshkaTV
Profile Joined October 2010
United States430 Posts
March 16 2011 22:23 GMT
#1481
Lets put it this way... if NASL doesn't invite the best Koreans....

someone else will, and NASL will become irrelevant.

Because people want to watch the best players play at the highest levels....

if minor league baseball can't draw a crowd, I don't think minor league SC is going to do too well.

www.KoshkaTV.com
nvs.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada3609 Posts
March 16 2011 22:24 GMT
#1482
On March 17 2011 07:05 SmoKim wrote:


how can you say no to a face like that?


That's a lot of pink for a man's room.
KoshkaTV
Profile Joined October 2010
United States430 Posts
March 16 2011 22:26 GMT
#1483
On March 17 2011 07:22 niteReloaded wrote:
I would say that inviting none would be like admiting defeat to the Korean scene, but inviting too much could be harmful for the tournament for the reasons many people stated already.

I would invite 2-3 to start with, just to have that 'villain' to fear and hope to defeat.


2-3 out of 50?

You cannot say NO to Nada, July, MC... there needs to be at least 10 Koreans to make it legit.

25 America's
15 Euro
10 Kor/Asia
www.KoshkaTV.com
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
March 16 2011 22:29 GMT
#1484
On March 17 2011 07:23 dsousa wrote:
Lets put it this way... if NASL doesn't invite the best Koreans....

someone else will, and NASL will become irrelevant.

Because people want to watch the best players play at the highest levels....

if minor league baseball can't draw a crowd, I don't think minor league SC is going to do too well.


Well MLG will do completely without Koreans. And I believe they will do just fine.

I also think there should be Koreans in the tourney, but no majority. Something like 10 would be cool.
A tournament with 45 koreans and 5 foreigners would not make much sense imo, because that would be GSL 2. And I dont need 2 tournaments with the exact same players.
NASL is about showcasing some of the top NA/EU players as well in a high profile tournament in addition to the Koreans that we usually see.
Off-season = best season
baoluvboa
Profile Joined December 2010
743 Posts
March 16 2011 22:30 GMT
#1485
On March 17 2011 07:24 nvs. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 07:05 SmoKim wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVCtCBFFh6s&feature=player_embedded

how can you say no to a face like that?


That's a lot of pink for a man's room.


I believe hes not living with OGS because he has his own gf and usually theyre the one doing the shopping/decoration
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
March 16 2011 22:40 GMT
#1486
On March 17 2011 07:29 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 07:23 dsousa wrote:
Lets put it this way... if NASL doesn't invite the best Koreans....

someone else will, and NASL will become irrelevant.

Because people want to watch the best players play at the highest levels....

if minor league baseball can't draw a crowd, I don't think minor league SC is going to do too well.


Well MLG will do completely without Koreans. And I believe they will do just fine.

I also think there should be Koreans in the tourney, but no majority. Something like 10 would be cool.
A tournament with 45 koreans and 5 foreigners would not make much sense imo, because that would be GSL 2. And I dont need 2 tournaments with the exact same players.
NASL is about showcasing some of the top NA/EU players as well in a high profile tournament in addition to the Koreans that we usually see.



Sure MLG does fine without Koreans, but I really don't see them making pro sc2 huge either. That's what the NASL is trying to do
www.superbeerbrothers.com
godemperor
Profile Joined October 2010
Belgium2043 Posts
March 16 2011 22:42 GMT
#1487
On March 17 2011 07:30 baoluvboa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 07:24 nvs. wrote:
On March 17 2011 07:05 SmoKim wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVCtCBFFh6s&feature=player_embedded

how can you say no to a face like that?


That's a lot of pink for a man's room.


I believe hes not living with OGS because he has his own gf and usually theyre the one doing the shopping/decoration

NaDa is currently single (all of the girls and most of of the guys of TL rejoice!! )
But he is not living in the team house because he is working hard in school to get a good grade, thus cant practice 24/7.

Q: Do you have a Girlfriend
A: Nope.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=192088
baoluvboa
Profile Joined December 2010
743 Posts
March 16 2011 22:43 GMT
#1488
On March 17 2011 07:42 godemperor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 07:30 baoluvboa wrote:
On March 17 2011 07:24 nvs. wrote:
On March 17 2011 07:05 SmoKim wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVCtCBFFh6s&feature=player_embedded

how can you say no to a face like that?


That's a lot of pink for a man's room.


I believe hes not living with OGS because he has his own gf and usually theyre the one doing the shopping/decoration

NaDa is currently single (all of the girls and most of of the guys of TL rejoice!! )
But he is not living in the team house because he is working hard in school to get a good grade, thus cant practice 24/7.

Show nested quote +
Q: Do you have a Girlfriend
A: Nope.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=192088


I would imagine that you are a frequent visitor of the Nada's body thread
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5282 Posts
March 16 2011 22:43 GMT
#1489
On March 17 2011 07:21 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 07:10 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On March 17 2011 06:46 Kazang wrote:
On March 17 2011 04:43 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On March 17 2011 04:13 Kazang wrote:
On March 17 2011 03:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
As long as the KR ladder remains strong, Americans have this opportunity (though Blizzard needs to make it easier for an American to connect to the KR server and get latency like in SC:BW).


Never going to happen.*

The reason for the apparent low latency in BW was because of where the servers were located, or not in the case of direct peer to peer games. You can't specifically choose what server, know where it is or dictate how you play SC2 so you can never get the lowest possible latency. Then of course there is a physical limitation in how fast information can travel over the pacific and back again.

The BW engine is also so terrible that it actually makes high latency less noticeable, it's simplicity Vs stability in netcode. SC2 has much more robust netcode that tries to insure equality and a consistent connection, but increases latency due to the number of loopbacks to the server. SC2 is extremely unlikely to have desync errors and problems of that type, actions not registering etc, but that stability comes at the cost of more noticeable lag when the latency does increase.


*if it ever does it will be at the same time they implement LAN play.

This sucks because SC2 seems to be worse in every way compared to SC1. For example, if I'm playing on KR server, and if my opponent and I give a command simultaneously, his command happens first. In this way, our games are out of sync. We do things at different times depending on our latency to the server. This isn't the case with SC1. Commands given simultaneously in the real world happen simultaneously in the game. Also in SC2, it's possible for the game to momentarily freeze and then skip ahead for one player, but for the other player to have a smooth experience the whole time.

It's just really disappointing because SC:BW was designed mainly for dial-up modems. As connections improved, Blizzard did nothing, but fans were able to make adjustments to take advantage of our internet connections. And then SC2 comes out and I'm thinking it'll be nice to not have to use third party programs anymore. But then they totally sacrificed the quality of long distance connections, which kinda blew my mind with how much PR they had about building SC2 for esports. NA to NA and EU to EU and KR to KR all provide excellent online experiences but they must have known that SC2 as an esport would require good connections cross continent =[[[


Well here is the rub.

SC1/BW used a different type of netcode. Basically when you issue a command, the unit does it on your client then it sends what that unit did to the server, server then sends it to the other player.
Yes your actions have instant effect on your screen, but your opponent doesn't see your action until the 200+ ms later. This is better in a perfect environment, with 0 latency, and can even appear fine in high latency, but the reality is there is a difference in sync.
You have the illusion of zero latency, but behind the scenes that is not the case.

This is just factually wrong. Did you even play SC1 online? I don't know why I should read the rest of your post after you've written this.

Maybe I should clarify about what I mean by "Commands given simultaneously in the real world happen simultaneously in the game"
I give a command simultaneously with my opponent in the real world
there is a delay
The commands happen simultaneously in the game

Our commands are simultaneous with each other. The giving of the command doesn't happen simultaneously with the game performing the command.

I can confirm that I've played approximately a billion games of BW and have never seen units teleport or scarabs disappear.

wtf, yeah, that's completely true.

I hate when people claim to know when they don't know shit.

IIRC, people who studied SCBW code and whatever, said that the game worked as P2P from the moment the actual match starts.
Qaatar
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
March 16 2011 22:50 GMT
#1490
That video from NaDa is total win. At least I got something entertaining out of this thread.
kegelflex
Profile Joined March 2011
United States38 Posts
March 16 2011 22:56 GMT
#1491
Not inviting top Koreans is like making a basketball league without Kobe, Lebron, Dwayne Wade, Dwight Howard, and Tim Duncan because its more entertaining to watch white people play. What is this 1860's?
Eknoid4
Profile Joined October 2010
United States902 Posts
March 16 2011 22:57 GMT
#1492
The biggest reason Korea dominates sc2 is because Korea dominated sc1. Sc2 is popular worldwide and doesn't have to compete with BW anywhere but Korea so it is going to grow more.

Do you think it's coincidence that nearly every Code S player has been BW Pros? And what percentage of all BW pros were Korean?

Korea will be better than everywhere else skillwise until the game has been around long enough for most of the sc1 pros to retire. The only way to speed up the advancement of nonkorean skill across the globe is to have tournaments like this that foster the same kind of competitive hardcore large-scale (in both quality and quantity of participants) environment that Korea currently is the only global haven for.
If you're mad that someone else is brazenly trumpeting their beliefs with ignorance, perhaps you should be mad that you are doing it too.
dkim
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States255 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-16 23:03:39
March 16 2011 22:58 GMT
#1493
On March 17 2011 07:24 nvs. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 07:05 SmoKim wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVCtCBFFh6s&feature=player_embedded

how can you say no to a face like that?


That's a lot of pink for a man's room.

oh god I think nada was trying to say something clever but I don't get it. AND I NEED TO GET IT!
something about trying hard to make his name nada -> nun in LA? some wordplay? I have no idea
I wish my conglish was as good as my korean -_-

edit: tnx floor exercise... it wasnt anything clever at all lol.
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
March 16 2011 22:59 GMT
#1494
I wouldn't like to have koreans in this tournament because they belong to a completely different community that doesn't interact with ours and they will greatly overshadow any western player. We don't have the tools to have a good enough practice to compete with them. There's GSL already, no need for a second one.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
Yukidasu
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Australia125 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-16 23:02:42
March 16 2011 23:01 GMT
#1495
I think that BW was between two players, Warcraft 3 was between players if it was a custom game, or with Battle net as a server if it was ladder, and Starcraft 2 always has Battle net as a server.

The latency thing works like this: because commands aren't sent and received instantly, it's impossible for all the copies of the game to know what's happening instantly. However, in this kind of game it doesn't make sense to allow instant changes and then fix up the results on other computers after it's happened without showing how it happened, because that would give visible skips, and an instant reaction like in an FPS isn't absolutely required.

Hence commands usually have a fixed time lag after which they'll take effect. If this time lag is too short and the command arrives after it was supposed to happen, the command could be ignored (not usually), or you'll get spikes or disconnection.

That fixed time is what you're modifying when you change the latency of a blizzard game like Warcraft 3. So it's a trade-off between risk of spikes and latency experienced - blizzard have traditionally set this very high, because some connections are unstable and can have very variable latency and it's easier to ensure everything works if it's high, plus then you don't have to bother explaining this to the user.
Lost in a groundless dream. You can't fly if there's nowhere to fall.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
March 16 2011 23:02 GMT
#1496
On March 17 2011 07:58 dkim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 07:24 nvs. wrote:
On March 17 2011 07:05 SmoKim wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVCtCBFFh6s&feature=player_embedded

how can you say no to a face like that?


That's a lot of pink for a man's room.

oh god I think nada was trying to say something clever but I don't get it. AND I NEED TO GET IT!
something about trying hard to make his name nada -> nun in LA? some wordplay? I have no idea
I wish my conglish was as good as my korean -_-

known

...
dkim
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States255 Posts
March 16 2011 23:02 GMT
#1497
On March 17 2011 07:59 MYM.ClouD wrote:
I wouldn't like to have koreans in this tournament because they belong to a completely different community that doesn't interact with ours and they will greatly overshadow any western player. We don't have the tools to have a good enough practice to compete with them. There's GSL already, no need for a second one.

I just sigh at every known players with this type of view because it clearly shows that they are not a true competitor. they are admitting inferiority straight up and even giving up at the idea that they can ever be as good as them. it's just sad.
Kazeyonoma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2912 Posts
March 16 2011 23:03 GMT
#1498
On March 17 2011 07:59 MYM.ClouD wrote:
I wouldn't like to have koreans in this tournament because they belong to a completely different community that doesn't interact with ours and they will greatly overshadow any western player. We don't have the tools to have a good enough practice to compete with them. There's GSL already, no need for a second one.

Who says they won't interact with americans? they've never had an avenue to, aside from Cella who has done his livestream for us, there isn't exactly a ton of opportunities for them to interact with us, but they DO know that they have fans, and they do thank us even sometimes calling out foreign fans directly in their post/pre game interviews. How many of the non-korean players say that or say the same shit? By that same method, half of the europeans and some of the americans don't deserve spots either.
I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!
baoluvboa
Profile Joined December 2010
743 Posts
March 16 2011 23:03 GMT
#1499
On March 17 2011 07:59 MYM.ClouD wrote:
I wouldn't like to have koreans in this tournament because they belong to a completely different community that doesn't interact with ours and they will greatly overshadow any western player. We don't have the tools to have a good enough practice to compete with them. There's GSL already, no need for a second one.


GSL begs to differ, and a lot of Korean players do stream for teamliquid specifically. The fact that they greatly overshadow any western players despite the cultural difference means that these so called western pros should work harder to be the best at a competitive global game.

More GSL level games = better and will only help NASL
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
March 16 2011 23:04 GMT
#1500
On March 17 2011 08:02 dkim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 07:59 MYM.ClouD wrote:
I wouldn't like to have koreans in this tournament because they belong to a completely different community that doesn't interact with ours and they will greatly overshadow any western player. We don't have the tools to have a good enough practice to compete with them. There's GSL already, no need for a second one.

I just sigh at every known players with this type of view because it clearly shows that they are not a true competitor. they are admitting inferiority straight up and even giving up at the idea that they can ever be as good as them. it's just sad.

Because it's not possible. It's not about giving up, it's a thing we can't do because we can't get the kind of practice they get.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
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