EPTNASL: Koreans? Top Koreans? - Page 29
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crms
United States11933 Posts
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Ves
United States27 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:29 Cider wrote: best post in the thread so far. I totally agree. Agreed | ||
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godemperor
Belgium2043 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:27 Ves wrote: The argument I'm making is that just because you haven't heard of the player before doesn't make him a scrub who has no reason to be there. Perhaps some people will surprise you. Giving some of the top NA/EU players a stage to show off their skill and give them an opportunity to make some cash to boot is not as bad as you guys are making it out to be. Just last night IdrA got taken to the brink of losing to some Terran player on his stream I had never heard of. So clearly you don't have to have to be Korean to provide an entertaining game. Like I said previous, the only time we ever see all these players together from the Foreigner Scene is at the yearly 6 MLG's. Here is another opportunity to see them all competing together. This is a really good thing. NASL is not the proving for some newcomers, NASL is the place for the best for have already proved themselves. IF a player wants to prove themselves, there are many 100$ weekly cups that they can attend. Many of the current top players rose to fame through playing many smaller tournaments. | ||
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Looky
United States1608 Posts
thats really a better scenario. | ||
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SilverJohnny
United States885 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:27 Subversion wrote: You people arguing that you only want the best and nothing else are all fucking hypocrites. I didn't see a single complaint thread over the TSL Korean invites. Why should Boxer be invited? He's certainly not the best - dude just got knocked into Code A. He was invited because he's BOXER, he's a big name, he's really famous, people want to see him play. In terms of raw skill, there are plenty of people more deserving. What about Haypro? He is a good player certainly, but in Korea has had extremely limited success. Even Ret to a certain extent. Why no complaints? Obviously he's from Liquid and its their tournament, but he's also a foreigner, and people want to see how our foreigners in Korea shape up to the Western competition. NASL is not just producing a tournament, they're producing an epic show. They want drama, rivalry, smack-talk and all other kinds of things which are ENTERTAINING to watch. Some of you may think that simply seeing the best of the best crushing every tournament and giving modest, translated and frankly boring interviews is entertaining, but a lot of people disagree. You need to remember that NASL is about expanding e-sports in the WEST, it's doing just fine in Korea already. If someone new to SC2 turns on NASL and sees people being crushed by Koreans and then giving a boring as hell interview in Korean, they probably won't really have their interest piqued. We want people to get involved, we want e-sports to grow, so we should also want NASL to be a helluva show to the casual player, and not just our elitist overinflated egos. Come on guys. This. 100% This. I wish I hadn't posted and had just quoted this, because its so right on the mark that this thread should be over. | ||
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Tiax;mous
669 Posts
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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Zeri
United States773 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:27 Peas wrote: Its not about saying "they are too good, w r scurred". Its about creating the infrastructure within europe and north american that would ultimately lead to global SC2 parity. Having 20+ koreans dominate a tournament so fundimental to the growth of e-sports in the west would be a bad thing. It amazes me how people dont seem to understand this. It amazes me how you don't seem to understand that the only way to break the divide in skill is to let 20+ them come play everyone else consistently. That is THE only way to close the skill divide. Non-Koreans and Koreans playing each other consistently | ||
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SilverJohnny
United States885 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:31 Tiax;mous wrote: I'm perfectly OK with 10 maybe 15 great korean players but my problem is , the most popular option in the poll says "unlimited koreans even if that means very few NA/EU players" which sounds like 35+ koreans. Guess the issue here is finding a good ratio. 35+ koreans wouldn't accept their invites. I doubt all of Code S is going to just quit to come play in some American league. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
Sure, limit the number of Koreans in NASL, but definitely invite a few. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:31 SilverJohnny wrote: This. 100% This. I wish I hadn't posted and had just quoted this, because its so right on the mark that this thread should be over. Agreed. | ||
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Ves
United States27 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:31 godemperor wrote: NASL is not the proving for some newcomers, NASL is the place for the best for have already proved themselves. IF a player wants to prove themselves, there are many 100$ weekly cups that they can attend. Many of the current top players rose to fame through playing many smaller tournaments. Those people who win those $100 tourneys are the ones I'm talking about. A lot of those players who posted VODS that people haven't heard of are winning those tournaments so why shouldn't they be allowed to prove themselves even further in the North American Star League? | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:27 Subversion wrote: You people arguing that you only want the best and nothing else are all fucking hypocrites. I didn't see a single complaint thread over the TSL Korean invites. Why should Boxer be invited? He's certainly not the best - dude just got knocked into Code A. He was invited because he's BOXER, he's a big name, he's really famous, people want to see him play. In terms of raw skill, there are plenty of people more deserving. What about Haypro? He is a good player certainly, but in Korea has had extremely limited success. Even Ret to a certain extent. Why no complaints? Obviously he's from Liquid and its their tournament, but he's also a foreigner, and people want to see how our foreigners in Korea shape up to the Western competition. NASL is not just producing a tournament, they're producing an epic show. They want drama, rivalry, smack-talk and all other kinds of things which are ENTERTAINING to watch. Some of you may think that simply seeing the best of the best crushing every tournament and giving modest, translated and frankly boring interviews is entertaining, but a lot of people disagree. You need to remember that NASL is about expanding e-sports in the WEST, it's doing just fine in Korea already. If someone new to SC2 turns on NASL and sees people being crushed by Koreans and then giving a boring as hell interview in Korean, they probably won't really have their interest piqued. We want people to get involved, we want e-sports to grow, so we should also want NASL to be a helluva show to the casual player, and not just our elitist overinflated egos. Come on guys. Thank you! This was the purpose of my post a few pages back but you said it much better than I ever could. | ||
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Tiax;mous
669 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:32 SilverJohnny wrote: 35+ koreans wouldn't accept their invites. I doubt all of Code S is going to just quit to come play in some American league. It's not just Code S tho , is it? Correct me if I'm wrong but afaik ST_Bomber isn't even Code A right? Also all it takes another GSL with full of upsets pretty much like last one , to get 35 top koreans free for a month | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:29 Cider wrote: best post in the thread so far. I totally agree. when did TSL ever claim to have been seeking the 'best of the best' i'm pretty sure they didn't. I could be wrong so if they did please post. I'm pretty sure all the hype has been about having the largest online invite tournament ever, which is all true. | ||
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FOUTWENTYSIXTY
89 Posts
They're better because they're professionals. The foreign scene is semi-amatuer. Koreans are professionals, and it broke my heart to see the huge prize pot of IEM go to invites. Domestic leagues are fine for sports. If a sport is a minority interest in many countries say like Golf or Tennis but of high quality, than the idea of opens is appealing as the quality of the tournament is the main concern. This is true of starcraft without Korea. Korea distorts everything, it will be like basketball in the olympics, with everyone racing to be second. The NASL is the best shot so far at having proper professional infastructure in the US for starcraft 2, and if you assume the majority of the top prizes are going to Koreans that's not going to happen. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:27 RevRich wrote: Thats almost as funny as the "Global (as long as you move to South Korea) Starcraft League" :D Well, it has to happen somewhere. It's "global" in the sense that anyone in the world is given a chance so long as they can physically get there. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:29 hmunkey wrote: So skill doesn't matter to you. Glad we have that out of the way. Exactly. Find the 50 stupidest smack-talking bronze players on youtube and put them in. Some people may say that's an exaggeration but you either get the best or you settle for something. You want a good tournament, you should invite whoever wants to come. Promote esports in the west? To promote it in the west you need people who didn't know ANYTHING about esports to come. Those people aren't going to know anything about where the players came from, anywhere. You go to a casual gaming site and which tourney do they know? GSL. Do they care if the players are Korean? Hell no, they may even think it's better because even the average gamer knows that Koreans are crazy good at starcraft. They watch the NASL, they aren't going to give a shit whether or not there's smacktalk or not. How many of you got into esports because of the smacktalk, and how many of you got into esports because you liked starcraft and wanted to watch awesome starcraft? I know I got in because of the second, and I'm willing to bet most of you did too. Having interesting interviews is great, but that only matters to the people ALREADY watching the NASL. No one's going to stumble on the interviews or smacktalking on youtube and think "yo those dudes can talk some CRAZY smack, I want to watch starcraft?", they WILL watch the games. | ||
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chonkyfire
United States451 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:27 Subversion wrote: You need to remember that NASL is about expanding e-sports in the WEST, it's doing just fine in Korea already. If someone new to SC2 turns on NASL and sees people being crushed by Koreans and then giving a boring as hell interview in Korean, they probably won't really have their interest piqued. We want people to get involved, we want e-sports to grow, so we should also want NASL to be a helluva show to the casual player, and not just our elitist overinflated egos. Come on guys. if you only watch players because of the color of their skin or the way their eyes are positioned or what language they speak then fuck you you act like they're playing for a golden star or cool new icon on bnet | ||
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Zeri
United States773 Posts
Yes, but all of you are forgetting that NOT inviting the best of the best Koreans will only further the skill divide. If Koreans are better than westerners, then we need as many koreans as possible coming and playing westerners as we can. We need their culture of esports to come spill over here. not exclude them and make our own out of a vacuum. | ||
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