EPTGOMtv actively blocking alternative clients? - Page 9
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On March 15 2011 03:48 Zman wrote: Maybe, they wanted to prevent people from downloading(read: saving) the stream, and decided to only allow the GOM Player UserAgent. Disabling VLC could have been collateral damage. I suspect it has more to do with this than anything else. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
On March 15 2011 03:47 kamikami wrote: When you bought the stream didn't they state/write that you must use GOM player to view it ? If so it's absolutely legal to block all other methodes that don't use GOM player. In the other hand, if they didn't say/write anything about it, it's their fault. http://www.gomtv.net/faq/view.gom?conid=52753 To watch the live stream, you must first install the latest version of GOM Player. Currently, GOM Player is for Windows only. Mac users can still watch the VODs but are unable to watch the live stream. GOM Player for Mac will be released in the near future. Edit; To further convince people that GOMtv probably won't support mac in the next few months (but probably will in the next year or two) Gom Player in korea from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GOM_Player As of July 2007, it had 8.4 million users, compared to 5.4 million users of Microsoft's Windows Media Player. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
On March 14 2011 23:47 baoluvboa wrote: Heard someone said that it was because using Vlc causes the servers to over load. If you use gom stream it spreads the viewers on each servers evenly but VLC link will just pick a random one and may cause that one to overload and shut down the stream. As for the gomplayer on mac, I'm not sure why they havent implement a working version. I think that is sort of confirmed by someone from another Reddit thread. There's some thinking that originally, GOM didn't want everyone using the same VLC link because they couldn't load balance correctly. If you look at the addresses generated when you go to the live pages yourself, each logged in user gets sent to a different server. If someone posts the SQ link, it basically means that all traffic is going to that one server. Why is why I've always told people to generate their own links with their own account. It respects any load balancing that GOM is doing. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/g3n1c/upvote_if_you_will_not_buy_another_season_from/c1koey0 It seems like one of the major reasons for them banning VLC is due to the uneven server load coming from people who use the same VLC link, which may have an effect on latency. If this is true, then I think it was reasonable for GOM to experiment with shutting down VLC to address their lag issues, especially if much of the lag and server overload came from overzealous VLC users (like me on occasion). I would also like to bring up another previous post from this thread: On March 15 2011 00:03 Jim7 wrote: I think that's 100% correct: http://www.gomtv.net/faq/view.gom?conid=52755 "...utilizes the spare resources, that are not in use on the User’s PC to transmit data to another User." Sounds like P2P to help share the load and reduce it and bandwidth on GOM's side. The HQ stream doesn't say it uses the streamer so maybe it's unfair of them to block it there since you're paying. But I can understand the reasons for blocking it on the SQ stream since it's free. I don't know if it's possible but can you run windows within mac or linux in a virtual environment to use the gom player to watch then? I have a hunch that GOM's decision was due to technical reasons. | ||
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how2TL
1197 Posts
On March 15 2011 03:00 dogmeatstew wrote: Firstly, I'm not sure why there's so much uproar about incompatibility between a given companies software and unix based operating systems... this isn't exactly something new. With the exception of Blizzard (and very recently select Valve games) the gaming community is generally subject to "have a Microsoft developed operating system of you're out of luck". As such, it shocks me a little that on a site dedicated to gaming we're having a discussion about how terrible it is that GOM doesn't have mac or linux support for their product. Honestly, in the software world this is pretty common, its a lot of extra coding to make your product cross compatible for what continues to be a very small audience (especially in the gaming community...). On the other hand, there are some pretty easy workarounds that haven't been mentioned, for Linux users, try using Wine, with a fairly basic understanding of the linux architecture you can get the GOM player running through this no issue on *almost* every major linux distro (for some reason I feel like Wine doesn't work on Suse but I could be crazy...). Otherwise, VM's are always an option... As for Mac users, if you're not willing to use a windows VM or have an alternate OS installed for the purposes of running incompatible software then realistically you can't be that dedicated to running a large percentage of existing software. If you play any other games chances are you're going to need a Windows OS so again, this issue is hardly GOM specific and I don't really see how we can blame them for it. Plus I'm sure eventually they'll come out with a working Mac version, but seriously, coding mac applications is hard  .This is a site dedicated to Starcraft, not general gaming. All versions of Starcraft have been OSX compatible. So I don't think it's a big surprise that people on TL with Macs that can play SC2 aren't happy that not only can the OSX version of GomPlayer not stream GSL, but every work-around is being denied. At least this is feedback for GOM so they might recognize a demand for OSX/Linux streaming. Do you think that telling people that they shouldn't provide feedback is useful/productive to anyone? If this issue doesn't matter to you, go to another thread. Don't crap on people's desires to watch GSL stream. | ||
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Mythito
Canada230 Posts
On March 14 2011 23:51 Rannasha wrote: This goes back to the emergence of Firefox in the browser-world where there were various websites that simply displayed a "you must use IE 6 or better" (spot the irony) hah. I like the irony, took 2 tries to catch it. made me lol though | ||
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Absolutionn
United States512 Posts
On March 15 2011 03:00 dogmeatstew wrote: + Show Spoiler + Firstly, I'm not sure why there's so much uproar about incompatibility between a given companies software and unix based operating systems... this isn't exactly something new. With the exception of Blizzard (and very recently select Valve games) the gaming community is generally subject to "have a Microsoft developed operating system of you're out of luck". As such, it shocks me a little that on a site dedicated to gaming we're having a discussion about how terrible it is that GOM doesn't have mac or linux support for their product. Honestly, in the software world this is pretty common, its a lot of extra coding to make your product cross compatible for what continues to be a very small audience (especially in the gaming community...). On the other hand, there are some pretty easy workarounds that haven't been mentioned, for Linux users, try using Wine, with a fairly basic understanding of the linux architecture you can get the GOM player running through this no issue on *almost* every major linux distro (for some reason I feel like Wine doesn't work on Suse but I could be crazy...). Otherwise, VM's are always an option... As for Mac users, if you're not willing to use a windows VM or have an alternate OS installed for the purposes of running incompatible software then realistically you can't be that dedicated to running a large percentage of existing software. If you play any other games chances are you're going to need a Windows OS so again, this issue is hardly GOM specific and I don't really see how we can blame them for it. Plus I'm sure eventually they'll come out with a working Mac version, but seriously, coding mac applications is hard .Its not that people are complaining about there not being a stream for mac, It's that gom is taking down something that is already free for windows users, so its not like mac viewers watching their stream is hurting anyone. | ||
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dogmeatstew
Canada574 Posts
On March 15 2011 04:06 how2TL wrote: This is a site dedicated to Starcraft, not general gaming. All versions of Starcraft have been OSX compatible. So I don't think it's a big surprise that people on TL with Macs that can play SC2 aren't happy that not only can the OSX version of GomPlayer not stream GSL, but every work-around is being denied. At least this is feedback for GOM so they might recognize a demand for OSX/Linux streaming. Do you think that telling people that they shouldn't provide feedback is useful/productive to anyone? If this issue doesn't matter to you, go to another thread. Don't crap on people's desires to watch GSL stream. Starcraft, Genral gaming, whatever its the general mindset of a culture which likes to play games, I'm sure that the majority of this site plays games that are not starcraft (evidence of this could be found in the crazy number of random streams that were shown when the beta was down...) so while this site is starcraft central its a little ignorant to state that gamers pick one game and never so much as peek at anything else. My point remains valid. As for feedback, its great and I'm sure they'd love to hear it but as has also been mentioned, this isn't their site and the fact that they do read this forum is very convenient for us however complaints here are likely not the most productive method available. My post is hardly about whether or not feedback to developers is helpful, I'm stating that you made a choice when you purchased a machine which runs OSX and now you're feeling the consequences of that decision. I have both windows and Linux machines in my possession and I've gotten the GOM stream running on all of them without issue. Furthermore their site clearly states that the stream is only windows compatible so the general air of "omg I'm so offended that GOM won't stream for me on my macbook" is completely undeserved, they're giving what they explicitly said they would provide. On March 15 2011 04:13 stalefish wrote: Its not that people are complaining about there not being a stream for mac, It's that gom is taking down something that is already free for windows users, so its not like mac viewers watching their stream is hurting anyone. GOM is taking down something which is an infringement of their usage policy and which they have stated is not supported. As a developer, I would do the same, no one likes uncontrolled 3rd party software accessing your businesses resources regardless of whether or not VLC connections actually do any harm. If *nothing* else, its a security threat. | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On March 15 2011 04:14 dogmeatstew wrote: Starcraft, Genral gaming, whatever its the general mindset of a culture which likes to play games, I'm sure that the majority of this site plays games that are not starcraft (evidence of this could be found in the crazy number of random streams that were shown when the beta was down...) so while this site is starcraft central its a little ignorant to state that gamers pick one game and never so much as peek at anything else. My point remains valid. As for feedback, its great and I'm sure they'd love to hear it but as has also been mentioned, this isn't their site and the fact that they do read this forum is very convenient for us however complaints here are likely not the most productive method available. My post is hardly about whether or not feedback to developers is helpful, I'm stating that you made a choice when you purchased a machine which runs OSX and now you're feeling the consequences of that decision. I have both windows and Linux machines in my possession and I've gotten the GOM stream running on all of them without issue. Furthermore their site clearly states that the stream is only windows compatible so the general air of "omg I'm so offended that GOM won't stream for me on my macbook" is completely undeserved, they're giving what they explicitly said they would provide. Just what this thread needs, some PC elitist who thinks Mac users don't play games and shouldn't be thought of in situations like this. Obviously if there are enough people in this thread who want a Mac-friendly GOM Player or reasonable alternative, there could certainly be enough people to warrant this being an actual issue for GOM to look at. Mac's are NOT rare, not anymore, and GOM should realize the US market is one that includes them in large enough numbers to make a difference. I made a choice to buy an OSX machine 3-4 years ago because I figured it would last me longer than other laptops I've had, and so far it's held true. The only thing I've had to replace in all that time was the battery once. It runs SC2 on low (good enough for me, given the age of the machine), and is serviceable in almost every other area I need it to be. If I could watch GSL, as I am a dedicated fan of many Korean and Foreign progamers, I would be ecstatic. GOM should realize that actively trying to keep me from watching is losing them customers like me who might pay 10$ to watch a better stream if I could actually watch it live. They have said they'd get a Mac GOM Player running, well now's the time. If you're going to shut down restreams and disable VLC, for whatever reasons, then give OSX users a way to watch. As it is now, GOM will lose the OSX market who wants to watch the games live. You may say that's not a big deal, but I think it's pretty stupid to alienate any portion of your viewer base when it isn't very big in the first place. EDIT: Also, if the issue was server load balance, then obviously there are enough people using VLC to affect that. That must be a significant portion of viewers, which should make GOM think twice about ignoring them. The time for a Mac GOM Player is now, and any decision to the contrary is just silly. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
There's some thinking that originally, GOM didn't want everyone using the same VLC link because they couldn't load balance correctly. If you look at the addresses generated when you go to the live pages yourself, each logged in user gets sent to a different server. If someone posts the SQ link, it basically means that all traffic is going to that one server. Why is why I've always told people to generate their own links with their own account. It respects any load balancing that GOM is doing. Load balancing using several servers doesn't work when people ask for VLC links and up to several hundreds or thousands of people join a single server. Better to ask for a speedy Mac/Linux port of the GOM Player than whining over them shutting 3rd party software down. Load balancing is highly important for UDP data such as voice over IP/video streaming and as a network technician you can't accurately measure the effective bandwidth requirement or optimal balance if people skew the statistics by connect directly to a single server due to VLC links. Example: 1. Everyone uses GOM Player and GOMtv official links. Load on two servers could be 60/60 %. 2. Some use the GOM Player and some connecting directly to a server using VLC. Might be looking at 100/20 %, which leads to lag/disconnects on one server and huge unused resources on the other. That's why they shut it down. | ||
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Centorian
United States95 Posts
On March 15 2011 04:14 dogmeatstew wrote: Starcraft, Genral gaming, whatever its the general mindset of a culture which likes to play games, I'm sure that the majority of this site plays games that are not starcraft (evidence of this could be found in the crazy number of random streams that were shown when the beta was down...) so while this site is starcraft central its a little ignorant to state that gamers pick one game and never so much as peek at anything else. My point remains valid. Bad logic is bad. Guaranteed this site has more Mac users than other gaming populations. Blizzard games support Mac and always have. On a Mac you are basically stuck playing Blizzard games, or Escape Velocity (old mac game).Therefore Blizzard games have a higher percentage of players who are Mac users. Just because there are players on this forum who are not running on Mac does not remove the fact that Blizzard games have a large Mac audience. That said, I do own a PC... but its a desktop and is a pain in the ass to hook up to my TV. My macbook pro is nice and portable and easy to plug into my big tv. I don't want to watch GSL on my desktop at 3:00 AM. I'd rather be chilling in a recliner at that hour. -Cent | ||
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Icx
Belgium853 Posts
On March 15 2011 04:34 karpo wrote: The reason why they blocked VLC has been explained here: Load balancing using several servers doesn't work when people ask for VLC links and up to several hundreds or thousands of people join a single server. Better to ask for a speedy Mac/Linux port of the GOM Player than whining over them shutting 3rd party software down. Load balancing is highly important for UDP data such as voice over IP/video streaming and as a network technician you can't accurately measure the effective bandwidth requirement or optimal balance if people skew the statistics by connect directly to a single server due to VLC links. Example: 1. Everyone uses GOM Player and GOMtv official links. Load on two servers could be 60/60 %. 2. Some use the GOM Player and some connecting directly to a server using VLC. Might be looking at 100/20 %, which leads to lag/disconnects on one server and huge unused resources on the other. That's why they shut it down. I don't get it, there are different small scripts out there, such as the extensions/plugins for firefox/chrome. It basicly just gives you the link that gomtv would input into the gom player, and makes it usable. They are "personal" links. The days off sharing the one single link for everyone so they can watch it trough vlc are past. And yes I am mainly a mac user, but I do know the restrictions, and because of that I have a dualboot with windows to use for programs that only run on there (but with blizzard games that isn't even needed). But everyone gets his personal link, throws into vlc, I have no idea in what way that would be bad for gom. The only thing I can think off is the rise of windows users actually using vlc instead of gom because they don't want it on their pc, and just want to use what they are used to (vlc). And the small subset of people that basicly can't use the gom player (tbh rebooting everytime I want to watch GSL, or let's say I'm doing some ruby on rails stuff, I would have to actually stop that to be able to watch gsl) are getting screwed. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
Many don't know this but alot of schools are connected to MSDNAA, where you can get XP/Vista/7 installs for free. My XP AND 7 installations are both through MSDNAA and they didn't cost me anything. Everyone who studies should check if their college has this, it's great for people with a Macbook who want to run Windows-only software. Website: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/academic/default | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On March 15 2011 00:55 McKTenor13 wrote: Im going to very very much disagree with you. Ill give you that the majority of people watching are not on macs, but that doesn't mean there's only 100. The younger the kids get, the more macs we are seeing in America. Probably half the people I know use macs. They just appeal to the masses. A good friend of mine owns a mac and has this same problem. He loves starcraft just as much as anyone here, but he cant watch a lot because GOM doesn't allow it and neither does justin.tv a lot of the time. Just because it's not the majority doesn't mean they shouldn't have access to it. Don't hate minorities buddy, people dont look kindly on that anymore =P Yes, your friend trumps hard data My friend does not like bananas, that does not mean most men in the world do not like bananas. | ||
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Nizaris
Belgium2230 Posts
On March 15 2011 04:13 stalefish wrote: Its not that people are complaining about there not being a stream for mac, It's that gom is taking down something that is already free for windows users, so its not like mac viewers watching their stream is hurting anyone. That's exactly the point, Mac viewers and every1 else not using the gom player (or more accurately those who don't generate their OWN link) is hurting every1 watching the stream by bypassing some of GOM's load balancing. Thus more lag, dc etc... | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
On March 15 2011 04:39 Icx wrote: I don't get it, there are different small scripts out there, such as the extensions/plugins for firefox/chrome. It basicly just gives you the link that gomtv would input into the gom player, and makes it usable. They are "personal" links. The days off sharing the one single link for everyone so they can watch it trough vlc are past. Unfortunately, not everyone will take the effort to download and install those plugins and scripts, which were a relatively recent development. I'm (edit)not sure about exact statistics, but I have a feeling that most people using VLC are still using the links that are often passed around on IRC channels, LR threads, and on the Reddit LR pages. Heck, I used to use the VLC links from the Reddit pages quite frequently instead of the GOM player, which I didn't use until I downloaded the correct English client instead of the Korean one. | ||
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Icx
Belgium853 Posts
I was under the impression that people already realized that for 5mins maximum of your time to get that you can watch GSL by just clicking the go live button compared to having to search threads everytime for a vlc link | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
On March 15 2011 04:48 Icx wrote: Okay then I am wrong. I was under the impression that people already realized that for 5mins maximum of your time to get that you can watch GSL by just clicking the go live button compared to having to search threads everytime for a vlc link Well, I think many people can't or won't choose to use the GOM player either by choice or by the fact they have an incompatible OS, so they try to find an alternative VLC link to compensate. Until recently, it took a bit of work to generate a unique VLC link, and it was much more convenient to go around on the IRC or look up the consistently made Reddit LR threads for the VLC links that other people had generated. edits: I'm really tired from pulling an all-nighter to study for a final, so I may have tons of grammatical errors in my posts. | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
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