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On March 10 2011 18:42 Markus138 wrote:
Cant these fuckin sexists shut up finally? They managed to make gom send a great caster away. She did a great job casting. She had knowledge and she spoke perfectly english - anyone disagreeing about the language should try to learn english themselves. I'm not a native speaker and my english isn't the best either but I understood everything she said without ANY problems.
I hope she takes all the sexists not too serious and maybe we'll see here again in Code A some time
Mods, can you give out some temp bans for posts like this one as well as the ones throwing words like racism and xenophobia around apparently without really even knowing what those terms actually mean?
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I watch GSL since season 1 with premium ticket.
I can't say I hate Kelly as a caster, but she is not my favorite also.
I'm french canadian and I don't consider my english to be perfect, but it seems that she forgets a lot of words in her sentences and it's hard for me to understand.
I.E:
- "The terran is going bioball push" VS "The terran is going for a bioball push"
I prefer clear sentence where the caster say all the words and pronounce clearly, maybe because i'm a non-english speaker, but if she is a english speaker, this is not acceptable to speak in this way, not professional at all, with your friends it's ok but not on T.V on a paid service.
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I still don't understand the Kelly hate. She didn't have the chemistry with any of her co-casters that we saw from Tasteosis, but then again, Tasteosis have been working together for long enough that they are instantly recognizable by such an odd portmaneau. Her commentary was not stellar, but it was also her first season doing a live broadcast on the GSL. And to be frank, if you don't think casting the GSL is literally infinity times harder than streaming on a webcam from your house, you need to just stop. Like, stop everything.
Also, maybe I missed it in the eighty jillion posts on this thread, but why are people wishing her luck in her future endeavors? She wasn't actually fired, she's just being rotated out. The way I understand it, it's essentially live auditions, so she may or may not be back.
Finally,
Nobody is hating on KellyMILKIES because of her gender or nationality. Everyone is criticizing her because she is simply not up to par for working as a commentator at the GSL.
The fact that you were able to type this with a straight face is less a reflection of reality and more a reflection of how amazing the TL mods have been in keeping this discussion under control.
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I didn't read any of the replies above because I know lost of sad 'forever alone' souls will be talking crap.. I am just happy for her for trying. It didn't work out.. hell I seen way waaaay worse performance on national tv by people getting payed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more on numerous of (non related to SC) shows.
So what if it didn't work out.. at least she got herself a chance.
Did anyone die? no.. so why all the drama?
oh yeah.. I forgot.. this is the internets
IT IS FULL OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU
who forgot that is all about fun..
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I think its a good move by GSL to not extend her contract. I just did not like her as a caster. I didn't find her insightful, funny or interesting. I think its really unfair of the OP to throw such accusations.
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I think the difference between watching artosis and taseless commentating vs artosis/tasteless and kelly casting was profound. Kelly simply lacked the analysis that either commentator offers and so it feels like I'm kind of watching a mediocre cast. I want to hear about the metagame, the strategies, and the ways the map can play out: it just seemed like Kelly rarely talked about these points and instead focused on commentating on the things that I can see already.
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On March 11 2011 02:34 GeorgeForeman wrote:
I find it baffling that people are so concerned about Kelly's league/rank. You can be a gold or platinum player and still have sufficient knowledge of the game to do play-by-play and not sound like an idiot. Knowing basic counters, basic build orders, and really, RTS fundamentals are all that you really need.
That's completely untrue. All you have to do is see player/casters like HD or Husky and how they cast to see that game skill DOES matter. I guess they might not sound bad to other newer/lower skilled players, but to anyone in even low Masters it's obvious how many blatant mistakes they make. Everything from build orders, to reasons for certain moves, to who is going to win a battle are often times wrong.
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I feel disgust reading all these douchebag comments about her on gomtv. You've got to be fucking stupid to not understand her, I'm not natively speaking English and I understand her as good an any other caster- Which is very good.
Other than that she's a good caster, gaah.. fucking "tastosis" fanboys.
She also seems like a very nice person.
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On March 11 2011 06:15 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2011 02:34 GeorgeForeman wrote:
I find it baffling that people are so concerned about Kelly's league/rank. You can be a gold or platinum player and still have sufficient knowledge of the game to do play-by-play and not sound like an idiot. Knowing basic counters, basic build orders, and really, RTS fundamentals are all that you really need.
That's completely untrue. All you have to do is see player/casters like HD or Husky and how they cast to see that game skill DOES matter. I guess they might not sound bad to other newer/lower skilled players, but to anyone in even low Masters it's obvious how many blatant mistakes they make. Everything from build orders, to reasons for certain moves, to who is going to win a battle are often times wrong.
Not necessarily true - you can have a great knowledge of a game and not be very good at it.
For example, FakeSteve.
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On March 11 2011 05:55 Vega62a wrote:Finally, Show nested quote +Nobody is hating on KellyMILKIES because of her gender or nationality. Everyone is criticizing her because she is simply not up to par for working as a commentator at the GSL.
The fact that you were able to type this with a straight face is less a reflection of reality and more a reflection of how amazing the TL mods have been in keeping this discussion under control.
Not knocking the mods at all, but for the most part they really haven't needed to. Sure, there have been a very small handful of blatent trolls going on about her race, but aside from that no one that said anything negitive about her has brought it up.
Really it only gets brought up by terrible posters like bluzark who don't read the thread at all and then assume everyone are 'sad "forever alone" souls'. The posts bringing up race/sex tend to just ignore all the other arguements and strawman in some sort of reverse-sexism arguement where she should get special treatment because she is female.
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On March 11 2011 06:19 thebig1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2011 05:55 Vega62a wrote:Finally, Nobody is hating on KellyMILKIES because of her gender or nationality. Everyone is criticizing her because she is simply not up to par for working as a commentator at the GSL.
The fact that you were able to type this with a straight face is less a reflection of reality and more a reflection of how amazing the TL mods have been in keeping this discussion under control. Not knocking the mods at all, but for the most part they really haven't needed to. Sure, there have been a very small handful of blatent trolls going on about her race, but aside from that no one that said anything negitive about her has brought it up. Really it only gets brought up by terrible posters like bluzark who don't read the thread at all and then assume everyone are 'sad "forever alone" souls'. The posts bringing up race/sex tend to just ignore all the other arguements and strawman in some sort of reverse-sexism arguement where she should get special treatment because she is female.
Maybe on exquisitely-modded TL. But when you plow through the tubes into the denizens of the internets, (especially video sites like YT and GOM) it's actually kind of pathetic the number of people who will insult her for her race/sex/accent. Even just the trolls - it's simply an added thing that a male whose first language is English does not have to deal with.
For my part, I don't think Kelly should get special treatment, but I agree with the above poster who mentioned that for the most part, SC2 is still a boys' club, and breaking into it as a female is harder than as a male by virtue of the fact that you are female. You will not always be judged fairly on your credentials - there will be those whose judgment is overly harsh, and there will be those whose judgment is overly lax, and both will be so because of your gender. We have to take that into account when we talk about the outcries of the community, not only from the trolls and the white knights, but the more moderate folks as well.
Again, for my part, I liked her. I learned from her in much the same way that I learned from tasteosis, and I liked her energy, and I think she fills the analysis role quite well. I saw a post about her non-sequitors, and I agree that they were offputting, so there's something she could work on, along with her "and unit xy is like, abc." Maybe it's because I am used to people for whom English is a second language, but her accent never threw me in the slightest. So, pros and cons, but I don't see one heavily outweighing the other, so I'm still in the dark as to the hate.
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On March 11 2011 06:32 Vega62a wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2011 06:19 thebig1 wrote:On March 11 2011 05:55 Vega62a wrote:Finally, Nobody is hating on KellyMILKIES because of her gender or nationality. Everyone is criticizing her because she is simply not up to par for working as a commentator at the GSL.
The fact that you were able to type this with a straight face is less a reflection of reality and more a reflection of how amazing the TL mods have been in keeping this discussion under control. Not knocking the mods at all, but for the most part they really haven't needed to. Sure, there have been a very small handful of blatent trolls going on about her race, but aside from that no one that said anything negitive about her has brought it up. Really it only gets brought up by terrible posters like bluzark who don't read the thread at all and then assume everyone are 'sad "forever alone" souls'. The posts bringing up race/sex tend to just ignore all the other arguements and strawman in some sort of reverse-sexism arguement where she should get special treatment because she is female. Maybe on exquisitely-modded TL. But when you plow through the tubes into the denizens of the internets, (especially video sites like YT and GOM) it's actually kind of pathetic the number of people who will insult her for her race/sex/accent. Even just the trolls - it's simply an added thing that a male whose first language is English does not have to deal with. For my part, I don't think Kelly should get special treatment, but I agree with the above poster who mentioned that for the most part, SC2 is still a boys' club, and breaking into it as a female is harder than as a male by virtue of the fact that you are female. You will simply not be judged fairly on your credentials - there will be those whose judgment is overly harsh, and there will be those whose judgment is overly lax, and both will be so because of your gender. We have to take that into account when we talk about the outcries of the community, not only from the trolls and the white knights, but the more moderate folks as well. Again, for my part, I liked her. I learned from her in much the same way that I learned from tasteosis, and I liked her energy, and I think she fills the analysis role quite well. I saw a post about her non-sequitors, and I agree that they were offputting, so there's something she could work on, along with her "and unit xy is like, abc." Maybe it's because I am used to people for whom English is a second language, but her accent never threw me in the slightest. So, pros and cons, but I don't see one heavily outweighing the other, so I'm still in the dark as to the hate.
I actually think the starcraft community's reception to Kelly has been much better than it would have been if Kelly was a male. Many people passionately defended her because they felt sympathy for the "poor girl bullied by a bunch of ruthless guys". Many people were willing to overlook her lack of talent as an English caster because she was a girl and they felt that having a female caster for GSL would help improve esport's image to the general public. I've seen numerous posts saying "But she's cute," "Give her a chance", "She's trying", "She's nice". If anything, her being a female softened the criticisms she received.
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On March 11 2011 06:03 Sqq wrote:
I think its a good move by GSL to not extend her contract. I just did not like her as a caster. I didn't find her insightful, funny or interesting. I think its really unfair of the OP to throw such accusations.
It's already been explained that they are cycling through casters like an audition. Personally, I thought her knowledge of the game was fine but like others I had a little trouble understanding her at times. Thought 9th probe was 9 pool and I was so confused because i didn't see any spawning pool.
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I'm fairly happy there testing out different commentators. I don't think she was the best as English isn't her native tounge and she often says weird things, e.g. Hellions are comming he better start getting lings or The roach warren isn't even up *Production tab shows 8 roaches*.
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I've noticed that the vast majority of good things you read about Kelly refer to her appearance, which have nothing to do with her casting ability. "She's beautiful", "She's cute", "She will be my wife" (taken from GOMtv forums)
This confirms to me that GOM likely picked a female caster for the"lonely nerds" who watch the GSL. If this is the case, than any attractive female caster would have prompted the same response throughout the Starcraft II community. People would have liked the caster because she was a female gamer and would have posted some of the same comments. However, there are many other female casters out there who are not only attractive (which shouldn't be the main reason to hire someone), but also very knowledgeable.
In this case, we would get the best of both worlds. More diversity in the game and great commentary to boot. Right now, I'm surprised how willing people are to accept Kelly based on her looks alone, and are not more critical of her casting ability. Someone made the point that anyone would "look good" next to Tasteless and Artosis, and I feel that this is true. They would make you look good, because they're just so experienced and great at what they do.
I bought a Season pass so that I could hear intelligent game commentary, infused with that some great Starcraft humor. I have to say that I look forward to Code S, but am more apprehensive about Code A. I think Erik is doing a fantastic job and I'm all for his casting. I'm just not sure he can compensate for what I believe is a lack of casting ability from Kelly.
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People dislike her casting abilities and they give valid points as to why. This has nothing to do with her gender or nationality. Do you want high school dropouts in charge of designing your bridges just because they have a nice smile and try hard? Come on kids its 2011 let's be mature about this. The internet white knights in this thread need bans ASAP.
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On March 10 2011 04:49 Miniraser wrote:
I agree very much with Dudemeister, our community is usually very good but this thing really med me feel ashamed.
Agreed. There's a way to criticise legitimately, and the shit Kelly got is not it. You have to wonder whether the complaints about her would have been less fucking hysterical if she wasn't a woman or if English was her first language. I can remember occasions when less than stellar casters have been hired for big events and the reaction was just 'This guy is bad, for x reason' as opposed to 'OMFG THIS IS BULLSHIT SHE'S TERRIBLE I CAN'T UNDERSTAND HER SHE ONLY GOT THE JOB BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN CODE A IS UNWATCHABLE FUCK YOU GOM I HOPE YOU DIE KELLY'.
The awful thing is that that's barely an exaggeration.
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On March 11 2011 06:58 gloinunit wrote:
People dislike her casting abilities and they give valid points as to why. This has nothing to do with her gender or nationality. Do you want high school dropouts in charge of designing your bridges just because they have a nice smile and try hard? Come on kids its 2011 let's be mature about this. The internet white knights in this thread need bans ASAP.
She got death threats. If calling that bullshit makes me an 'internet white knight' then whatever.
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I'm not asking to give a completely free pass here.
From reading the stuff here, I was reminded of how true it was, but forgot these little things shortly after the game was over(the way Kelly abruptly changes the subject, how she's not able to fill time effectively, many instances of Artosis clearly giving her time to say something, and then ending up filling up time himself).
Another element which grated on me was her specific style. It had to do with how she would say something like "omg it's going to not wooooooooorrrk". It's hard to articulate here but it's similar to grade school kids and how they talk to each other.
Kelly also seemed to lack confidence and conviction with what she says, punctuating her statements with a question mark. She seemed intimidated by Artosis, and noticeably commentated a lot less with him around.
At this point I think we've exhausted every possible avenue on this topic, hopefully better things will come out of this, even if a person needs to fall by the wayside in order to make the great good happen.
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EPT
