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I find it baffling that people are so concerned about Kelly's league/rank. You can be a gold or platinum player and still have sufficient knowledge of the game to do play-by-play and not sound like an idiot. Knowing basic counters, basic build orders, and really, RTS fundamentals are all that you really need.
By contrast, you can be in the top teir of Masters and not be able to speak effectively about the game. The problem (well, the BIGGEST problem) with Kelly's casting is her constant non-sequiturs. You'd get more drunk taking shots after Kelly non-sequiturs than you would after Tastetosis saying "high level". Others have made the point earlier, but she can't seem to string together a coherent conversation with any co-caster she's been up with. It's not a dialogue. It's the co-caster talking about the game, trying to engage her, and then Kelly comes out of nowhere with something that may or may not have anything to do with what's currently going on in the game.
I mean, you could throw Joe Buck in the booth with Tasteless or Artosis (or probably even doa) and you'd get a more coherent, listenable cast.
Maybe if she had more time with one caster she'd develop a better synergy, but I kinda doubt it.
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her accent was somewhat annoying but if you really couldn't understand her after getting used to her you either 1) have never talked to an asian person or 2) don't have the exquisite knowledge of the English language that you demand from your casters.
it was pretty grating though at times
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On March 10 2011 20:37 tyCe wrote:
Secondly, she lacks the interpersonal skills or proficiency of the English language to interact with her co-caster synergistically. Oftentimes, she has disregarded a conversion started by her co-caster and proceeded to say something completely irrelevant. It leaves her co-caster hanging and makes for awkward transitions and moments. In that way, she does not provide support for her co-caster in the manner that Artosis and Tasteless often do, saving each other from awkward silences due to overly lame jokes or completely off-topic statements. Her deficiency is not due to a lack of time to gel with DoA, as DoA does his workload of the "gelling" fine enough. Crucially, her mistakes are often very basic. She oftentimes ignores what DoA (or Artosis or Tasteless) has said and just recites a line that she had clearly conjured while her co-caster was trying to dialogue with her. This is commentary symbiosis 101. In fact, it is also plain good manners.
This is very true, and I can't agree more. There's a reason there are two people casting, and it's not because one person doesn't have enough breath. The best duos have a simpatico between them, and it's very important.
However, I feel I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that Day9, the most revered commentator in this community, is often guilty of not really listening to his co-caster. I can't count how many times I've seen that other person making a point to Day9, while he's typing furiously on his computer, only to come out of it and say something like "abbsoolutely, ...." and launch off into a completely unrelated (but not irrelevant, just to be clear) topic, leaving that person hanging.
Now, I know there are reasons for doing this - I'm not trying to bash on him. Many times, it's because he's the one starting games so he has to go do that. I'm sure this will iron out over time, and again I'm not bashing, but I just don't feel it's fair to ding Kelly on this while Day9 does it.
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On March 11 2011 03:12 SCbiff wrote:
However, I feel I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that Day9, the most revered commentator in this community, is often guilty of not really listening to his co-caster. I can't count how many times I've seen that other person making a point to Day9, while he's typing furiously on his computer, only to come out of it and say something like "abbsoolutely, ...." and launch off into a completely unrelated (but not irrelevant, just to be clear) topic, leaving that person hanging.
Now, I know there are reasons for doing this - I'm not trying to bash on him. Many times, it's because he's the one starting games so he has to go do that. I'm sure this will iron out over time, and again I'm not bashing, but I just don't feel it's fair to ding Kelly on this while Day9 does it.
I've seen Day[9] do this as well, I think mostly due to his inability to read chat, listen to the producers in his ear piece, and interact with his co-caster simultaneously. I've found this to be mostly in between games where other things are going on, and I can't think of any instances of Day[9] doing this while actually commentating on the game. I think Sean is really good at expounding upon the points set out by his co-casters during games, and he is also proficient at setting them up.
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Day9 pretty much ignores his co-caster most of the time, even in the middle of games when he has nothing else to distract him.
As compared to Artosis / Kelly as a casting duo, who I personally thought had great chemistry, humor and game sense between the two of them.
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On March 11 2011 03:12 SCbiff wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 20:37 tyCe wrote:
Secondly, she lacks the interpersonal skills or proficiency of the English language to interact with her co-caster synergistically. Oftentimes, she has disregarded a conversion started by her co-caster and proceeded to say something completely irrelevant. It leaves her co-caster hanging and makes for awkward transitions and moments. In that way, she does not provide support for her co-caster in the manner that Artosis and Tasteless often do, saving each other from awkward silences due to overly lame jokes or completely off-topic statements. Her deficiency is not due to a lack of time to gel with DoA, as DoA does his workload of the "gelling" fine enough. Crucially, her mistakes are often very basic. She oftentimes ignores what DoA (or Artosis or Tasteless) has said and just recites a line that she had clearly conjured while her co-caster was trying to dialogue with her. This is commentary symbiosis 101. In fact, it is also plain good manners.
This is very true, and I can't agree more. There's a reason there are two people casting, and it's not because one person doesn't have enough breath. The best duos have a simpatico between them, and it's very important. However, I feel I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that Day9, the most revered commentator in this community, is often guilty of not really listening to his co-caster. I can't count how many times I've seen that other person making a point to Day9, while he's typing furiously on his computer, only to come out of it and say something like "abbsoolutely, ...." and launch off into a completely unrelated (but not irrelevant, just to be clear) topic, leaving that person hanging. Now, I know there are reasons for doing this - I'm not trying to bash on him. Many times, it's because he's the one starting games so he has to go do that. I'm sure this will iron out over time, and again I'm not bashing, but I just don't feel it's fair to ding Kelly on this while Day9 does it.
Except Kelly does it all the time, she simply lacks the interpersonal skills required for the job.
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edit: ah whatever just saying the same thing everyone else is anyway.
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Best of luck to you in your future endeavours, Kelly!
I'm sure that one season of casting Code A for GomTV with a professional team behind her and in front of a large international audience will look good on future resumes if she chooses to pursue jobs in similar fields. 
Can't wait to see who'll join Doa next season. :D
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On March 11 2011 02:34 GeorgeForeman wrote:
I find it baffling that people are so concerned about Kelly's league/rank. You can be a gold or platinum player and still have sufficient knowledge of the game to do play-by-play and not sound like an idiot. Knowing basic counters, basic build orders, and really, RTS fundamentals are all that you really need.
i find this an odd comparison because i would argue that they are both equally unsuitable to commentate.
but about the league and rank thing, if the caster can only point out the obvious all game "thats a barracks, looks like the terran will be making marines!" that gets dull really fast, artosis still says it but you can hear the sarcasm in his voice. its a bit of light humour while they are waiting for the game to get started for real. but if thats all the caster can talk about id probably just mute them, i dont need captain obvious shouting at me for 20 minutes. tasteless still drops in the odd point "for the newbies" but its few and far between, they arent trying to educate the "noobs" all in one show because as the audience grows they would have to do that every show to educate everyone.
all the "best" analytical commentators that i can think of are very, very good at starcraft, thats not the only thing about them, they have to be able to speak well on top of that; if you want a top job like gsl you need to have both, same as any other profession, to be at the top you have to be able to do it all.
btw i thought kelly was high diamond on the korean ladder or something? aka rank1 masters anywhere else
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On March 11 2011 03:12 SCbiff wrote:
However, I feel I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that Day9, the most revered commentator in this community, is often guilty of not really listening to his co-caster. I can't count how many times I've seen that other person making a point to Day9, while he's typing furiously on his computer, only to come out of it and say something like "abbsoolutely, ...." and launch off into a completely unrelated (but not irrelevant, just to be clear) topic, leaving that person hanging.
You have a point, but Day9 is just experienced and charismatic enough to know what he can get away with.
There's an element of 'performance' and theatricality to casting in front of a camera. And what has always impressed me about Day9 is his ability to act and improvise.
A lot of that comes from experience, but part of the reason why Day9 gets away with bullshitting and Kelly doesn't is because he is simply a more talented storyteller.
It's one of the reasons why I think a guy like InControl has huge potential as a commentator. They just have 'the knack'.
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although her casting skill is lacking... i can understand kelly just fine, the accent doesnt seem that bad
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On March 11 2011 03:48 excellionx wrote:
although her casting skill is lacking... i can understand kelly just fine, i dont see whats so bad about her accent.
It's more noticeable if you're listening rather than looking.
God I'm an asshole sometimes.
Anyway, too bad for kelly! Hope to see her back in a couple seasons. I like her commentary. I didn't watch so much of code A, but she was always genuinely high energy, enthusiastic, and interesting. Sad to see her go.
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Sean also don't give you awkward pauses...I mean, yes absolutely he does let it happen, but he just have this ability to smooth the cast out to a level where you don't think it's an issue overall.
This is when Tyler's quote "everyone knows I play wow, but everyone still loves me" is golden, Kelly can't get away with mistakes like those because she doesn't have the smoothest sounding cast whereas Day can get away with some dis-coordination with co-caster.
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United States354 Posts
The Day9 comparison isn't valid at all because Day9 ALWAYS makes his co-caster look better.
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I am still continuing to catch up(I am reading each and every comment here). But here's my take on this entire scenario.
For eSports to expand in terms of legitimacy, the level of professionalism needs to be maintained, and in some cases, stepped up. What we're accustomed to(Artosis + Tasteless), has set a certain level of threshold. The insights, the friendly bantering, the chemistry...we get that, and we've come to expect it.
With the facts at hand, Kelly along with many other upcoming casters for Code A - let me focus on Kelly for the moment.
The barrier to entry for a woman to participate in a male-dominated activity takes beyond simple thick skin. It takes being able to mentally tune out or handle all the sexist comments, the misogyny, the ugliness that, if we're honest with ourselves - a male commentator wouldn't be subjected to, in the same way. I can already sense some of you saying "well if they want equality, then they gotta be able to play with the big boys". Sure, I agree. Yet I'm also saying, we're not there yet. I'm saying, let's give people a chance and cut them some slack especially when they're new and trying to make a difference.
If someone calls Day9 something derogatory, shrugging and laughing it off is a matter of course for him, because all he needs to tell himself is, it's just some internet basement dweller. It's a simple emotional shut-out valve. Maybe it's a crude example but just the fact that Kelly mentions how she's targeted because she's female, shows us how she simply cannot win. Especially when you see people comment on her white top and say terrible things like her trying to be cute and princess-y. We as a community should be above things like criticizing shallow things like that.
Shrug, maybe in the end she was simply a bad fit due to some challenges. I think you guys are getting at what I'm trying to say, to think beyond the season ticket fee.
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I prefer her to Doa by a mile honestly, even if her accent makes some things difficult to understand, she has a great personality and is much more entertaining to listen to. I hope she comes back.
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Seems pretty cut and dry: if people are having a hard time with a commentator, you replace them. It's easier to replace a single commentator than an alienated fan-base. Sure, people like Kelly's spunk and attitude and effort, but a large number of people just don't like her work. There are far more qualified people out there that alienate almost nobody, and GSL casting is the end-all be-all of videogame commentating, so let them have a shot. If people don't like them either, then replace them. It's just good business, giving the people what they want/like.
Note: We need some BigT GSL commentary. That guy is a blast to listen to.
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On March 11 2011 04:17 D_K_night wrote:
I am still continuing to catch up(I am reading each and every comment here). But here's my take on this entire scenario.
For eSports to expand in terms of legitimacy, the level of professionalism needs to be maintained, and in some cases, stepped up. What we're accustomed to(Artosis + Tasteless), has set a certain level of threshold. The insights, the friendly bantering, the chemistry...we get that, and we've come to expect it.
With the facts at hand, Kelly along with many other upcoming casters for Code A - let me focus on Kelly for the moment.
The barrier to entry for a woman to participate in a male-dominated activity takes beyond simple thick skin. It takes being able to mentally tune out or handle all the sexist comments, the misogyny, the ugliness that, if we're honest with ourselves - a male commentator wouldn't be subjected to, in the same way. I can already sense some of you saying "well if they want equality, then they gotta be able to play with the big boys". Sure, I agree. Yet I'm also saying, we're not there yet. I'm saying, let's give people a chance and cut them some slack especially when they're new and trying to make a difference.
If someone calls Day9 something derogatory, shrugging and laughing it off is a matter of course for him, because all he needs to tell himself is, it's just some internet basement dweller. It's a simple emotional shut-out valve. Maybe it's a crude example but just the fact that Kelly mentions how she's targeted because she's female, shows us how she simply cannot win. Especially when you see people comment on her white top and say terrible things like her trying to be cute and princess-y. We as a community should be above things like criticizing shallow things like that.
Shrug, maybe in the end she was simply a bad fit due to some challenges. I think you guys are getting at what I'm trying to say, to think beyond the season ticket fee.
Nobody is hating on KellyMILKIES because of her gender or nationality. Everyone is criticizing her because she is simply not up to par for working as a commentator at the GSL.
Conversely it is interesting that people are defending her purely because of her gender (because they think she is a good looking girl) and nationality (a la asian pride) as opposed to her 'fantastic casting skills and enjoyable casting voice'.
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I'm pretty amazed that people couldn't understand her. It didn't exactly require much effort. If people want to criticize her game knowledge, then that's another issue, but her English was absolutely fluent. As for people criticizing her appearance, that's pretty low (not to mention objectively incorrect).
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EPT
