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The n00b effect - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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parn
Profile Joined December 2010
France296 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-08 14:41:30
March 08 2011 14:37 GMT
#61
Imo, what this guy is describing has nothing to do with a "n00b effect", he's in fact talking about the "economic effect": game producers focus on the largest customers target which, in the 21th century, is casual gamers. But this ain't nothing new at all, just a consequence.

I understand this short clip as a hard QQ against SC2, and i totally agree. Here comes the new gamer generation guys!!!

[image loading]

Starcraft 3, soon in all your schools!
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
March 08 2011 14:41 GMT
#62
On March 08 2011 19:03 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
People can keep holding on to the naive idea that practice will make you a pro, there is a reason why there are a few select players at the pro level out of the millions of players that comprise the player base... Just have fun, stop the competitive crap specially if you are diamond or below, just have fun and if you make it to masters league having fun so be it...


What makes you think that the difference is anything other than practice and dedication?

Obviously some level of mental and physical ability is required, but anyone intelligent enough to get into college and not physically disabled in some way had plenty of "natural aptitude" or whatever else you want to call it.
www.infinityseven.net
Eeryck
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States184 Posts
March 08 2011 14:44 GMT
#63
On March 08 2011 19:30 Axeinst wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2011 19:03 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
People can keep holding on to the naive idea that practice will make you a pro, there is a reason why there are a few select players at the pro level out of the millions of players that comprise the player base... Just have fun, stop the competitive crap specially if you are diamond or below, just have fun and if you make it to masters league having fun so be it...

Argh people like this attitude so make me mad. I am honest, it is fucking stupid to think like that because there is absolutely no reasoning or evidence.

Your though process goes like this:

There is few people at the top -> not everybody cannot become top because there is only few people at the top.

The fact is, that to become top of starcraft you need only normal intelligence and body with no disabilities. There is no known natural born factors that makes those gsl-players apart from others.

If you are going to claim that in order to become gsl material you need to have some special and natural things that others dont have, you need to have evidence for that. In basketball, there is clear evidence of those kind of factors, like tallness.


In fact there are exceptions to every rule. Look at Spud Webb and Muggsy Bogues amongst others.

In support of your point:
People who claim genetics are a factor in success lack the imagination, work effort and ingenuity to break through their own barriers.

Even the psudo-science of fast and slow twitch muscles is bogus. They have never tracked and tested anyone from birth to determine if their muscle composition is a function of genetics or the obscenely long hours they have spent training. They have only tested after the people have become top caliber athletes.

On the other hand:
Becoming obscenely good at something does come at a cost. Since you will be spending the vast majority of your time on one thing you will tend towards uber-specialized and will most likely be lacking in other areas.
?
SugarBear
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States842 Posts
March 08 2011 14:45 GMT
#64
The point he made about talent is demonstrably wrong. There is a dearth of evidence to suggest spending 10,000 hours on something is all that is required to become an expert at it. While some of us have more RTS experience than others, and thus the threshold for expertise is lower, there is no reason that anyone can't become a pro simply by massing games.
Staff vVv Gaming | "So what did you do today?" "Oh not much, mined some minerals, harvested some gas, spawned some zergs, the usual"
Candles
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom103 Posts
March 08 2011 14:48 GMT
#65
What shocks me most about this thread is that people seem to think there is something shameful about only being good at something because you've practiced it more than anyone else...

That's insane. Look at sports players, musicians, writers. The successful ones are the ones that practice the most. The beauty of E Sports is that you can never get told you have the wrong body type, or you're too fat or injury prone. Anyone can be a great Professional Gamer if they put the time in and there is something great about that.

Obviously when you get very near the top there is a creative part and some natural aptitude for thinking differently in certain situations, but we're talking right at the top (Like the top 20). A player with amazing mechanics will beat a naturally creatively gifted player with average mechanics everytime.

derpzzz
Profile Joined March 2011
20 Posts
March 08 2011 14:49 GMT
#66
he has the point with the shitty games producers are feeding us nowadays
BetterFasterStronger
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States604 Posts
March 08 2011 14:56 GMT
#67
no... i refuse to beleive that he will shove a golden mouse up my ass when i play him!
Top 200 as Protoss - Switched to Terran. 0-30 against EGiNcontroL... God damnet
Candles
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom103 Posts
March 08 2011 15:03 GMT
#68
On March 08 2011 23:49 derpzzz wrote:
he has the point with the shitty games producers are feeding us nowadays


I'd personally argue that we're in a golden age of games. I adore the following franchises:
- Mass Effect
- Assassin's Creed
- Halo
- Gears of War
- Dead Space

I'd wager most people here are RTS players though (obviously) and in a world where Strategy games are also been pushed forwards in interesting new dynamics. Strategy games had evolved so much that people were initially turned off by the idea that Starcraft relied on resource collection. People are trying new things and generally getting good critical and fan based response:
- Homeworld
- Dawn of War
anyone?

I think it's kind of ridiculous to complain about games being too focused on the story as well. The story and canon of the games I play is a huge part of the appeal. I read massive amounts of classic Sci-Fi and I can tell you that the world created by Epic for Mass Effect is as brilliant as any created by Clarke, Dick or Asimov. If you don't want the canon, story or graphics then you may as well go and play Chess or a similar game (which has had much more time to develop strategy) and is surely a much more pure experience.
dudeman001
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2412 Posts
March 08 2011 15:14 GMT
#69
Why are people taking this so seriously, damn. Do people remember where this is even from? It's from a mockumentary that takes nothing seriously and has one of the most egotistical main characters possible which makes it hilarious. Just chill mates.
Sup.
Kleinmuuhg
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Vanuatu4091 Posts
March 08 2011 15:21 GMT
#70
wow that was pretty funny, i doubt that anybody will addressed however.
This is our town, scrub
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
March 08 2011 15:32 GMT
#71
I'm going to quibble with the terminology used in the summary in the OP-the term "good gameplay" is a pretty stupid thing to say. You don't say movies have "good moviewatch" or books have good "bookread." Gameplay is an empty term. A game can have good controls, a high skill ceiling, an immersive atmosphere, etc. and it's far better to address those than have a blanket term like "gameplay."
optical630
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom768 Posts
March 08 2011 15:35 GMT
#72
the video is for fun stop taking it seriously >_>



decaf
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria1797 Posts
March 08 2011 15:38 GMT
#73
On March 08 2011 15:20 Torte de Lini wrote:
Cool, a video with a bright yellow backdrop and uses imagery to comedically display his fast-spoken narration and downplays all factors that makes a "good game".

Cool, a topic that has no opinion but rather tells us to watch the 3 minute and 50 seconds of an opinion they needed to be developed in order to justify why other topics of balance and gameplay flood our forums.

I'd voice an opinion but this guy has lead his opinion onto insulting me because we have different views of good gameplay and a good game.

tl:dr The video attempts to tell us that no matter how much we practice we cannot be a pro-gamer or those who are on the competitive scene despite numerous professionals claiming otherwise by their own persoanl experience that the video-creator has none of.

Through the insults and the attempt to be vastly witty while also side-stepping an actual point, the video lends itself to be redundantly bad with its sub-par attempt of analogies to today's pop culture and its references.

To conclude, practice does make perfect and just because this guy has a laissez-faire attitude doesn't mean I will equally give up playing a game and striving to be better that goes in conjunction with the uber-gamers that enjoy a challenge.

A comment has never been so true.
XsebT
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Denmark2980 Posts
March 08 2011 15:42 GMT
#74
Fucking love it!
Something to think about.
화이팅
Duban
Profile Joined July 2009
United States548 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-08 15:46:22
March 08 2011 15:44 GMT
#75
I agree that a lot of games have this childishly easy appeal but there still are games out there directed at serious gamers. Take the Megaman Zero collection for the DS, or the individual games for the advance. It's an awesome series of platform games that takes the kirby-ish appeal and says "no thank you".

The game is set in a post apocolyptic world where sentient robots called reploids are being "retired" without reason by the last city left on earth, Neo Arcadia. The gameplay is very... harsh, to say the least. It's brutal, yet awesome. The following series Megaman ZX is also excellent. It's similar but offers multiple biometals and each one plays and fights differently in the platform enviroment. Which one you pick is left to personal taste.
An ignorant person makes a mistake. A stupid person makes it again.
Phenny
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1435 Posts
March 08 2011 15:45 GMT
#76
Meh, the enjoyment of games is completely and utterly subjective, what one person finds fun does not necessarily mean another will like it. There is an endless amount of games to be played, play the games you enjoy, have fun etc but don't berrate games you personally don't like for arbitrary reasons (because they don't conform to the styles of the games you like to play) because it's just that - a personal preference.
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
March 08 2011 15:48 GMT
#77
haha, that end was golden. Pure golden.

But what he is saying is true. Its sad, but true.
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
snow2.0
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany2073 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-08 15:58:37
March 08 2011 15:55 GMT
#78
On March 09 2011 00:03 Candles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2011 23:49 derpzzz wrote:
he has the point with the shitty games producers are feeding us nowadays


I'd personally argue that we're in a golden age of games. I adore the following franchises:
- Mass Effect
- Assassin's Creed
- Halo
- Gears of War
- Dead Space

I'd wager most people here are RTS players though (obviously) and in a world where Strategy games are also been pushed forwards in interesting new dynamics. Strategy games had evolved so much that people were initially turned off by the idea that Starcraft relied on resource collection. People are trying new things and generally getting good critical and fan based response:
- Homeworld
- Dawn of War
anyone?

I think it's kind of ridiculous to complain about games being too focused on the story as well. The story and canon of the games I play is a huge part of the appeal. I read massive amounts of classic Sci-Fi and I can tell you that the world created by Epic for Mass Effect is as brilliant as any created by Clarke, Dick or Asimov. If you don't want the canon, story or graphics then you may as well go and play Chess or a similar game (which has had much more time to develop strategy) and is surely a much more pure experience.


Most of these fit the general definition of easy, nice graphics and low skill cap (or no competitive gaming at all), which is the whole point of the gaming growth vs gaming quality.

Homeworld is old anyway.

Halo counts, i guess :E

Havn't actually played Mass Effect 1, but the second installation - are you serious? the Story doesn't even make sense, everything is obviously marked as "go here to be good/evil", missions are completely repetitive, even the very combat they made so shiny is boring repetition of covered fighting with completely useless AI companions.
Maybe the backstory is nice, but you're not the backstory, you're playing some cookie-cutter 0815 save the universe story. Oh, and you can grow scars, look!


The most competitive game of the world are what, Starcraft 1 (korea) and Counter Strike (other)?
Those are AGES old, people could've stopped making games 1999 and we'd have missed out on very little.

I enjoy SC2, but i can't say its anywhere near as hard or rewarding as old games. Same for all other newer games i've played with the exception of Roguelikes (which, again, could've been made anno 1995)
simme123
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Sweden810 Posts
March 08 2011 15:56 GMT
#79
On March 08 2011 15:20 Torte de Lini wrote:
Cool, a video with a bright yellow backdrop and uses imagery to comedically display his fast-spoken narration and downplays all factors that makes a "good game".

Cool, a topic that has no opinion but rather tells us to watch the 3 minute and 50 seconds of an opinion they needed to be developed in order to justify why other topics of balance and gameplay flood our forums.

I'd voice an opinion but this guy has lead his opinion onto insulting me because we have different views of good gameplay and a good game.

tl:dr The video attempts to tell us that no matter how much we practice we cannot be a pro-gamer or those who are on the competitive scene despite numerous professionals claiming otherwise by their own persoanl experience that the video-creator has none of.

Through the insults and the attempt to be vastly witty while also side-stepping an actual point, the video lends itself to be redundantly bad with its sub-par attempt of analogies to today's pop culture and its references.

To conclude, practice does make perfect and just because this guy has a laissez-faire attitude doesn't mean I will equally give up playing a game and striving to be better that goes in conjunction with the uber-gamers that enjoy a challenge.


The video is funny and though u can overcome through sheer willpoer some will naturally be better. Seriously why be so serious.
gogogadgetflow
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2583 Posts
March 08 2011 16:05 GMT
#80
I don't know why people are having a problem with this. The video told me that it would be ideal if video games returned to emphasizing gameplay over story, graphics, and other "consumerability" factors, and I think most of us at this elitist gaming website would agree. It also said that people uninterested in being competitive shouldn't wag their fingers at people who dedicate their life to gaming and I think most of us would agree with that as well. Maybe Torte just doesn't like the guys accent?
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