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On March 08 2011 16:00 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 15:53 Gliche wrote:
A lot of people here are not understanding the actual message of the video, whether it's meant to be completely a parody or not. He's making fun of the trends in the gaming industry, where developers are putting less into gameplay and game content and more into having shiny effects and packaging, which is true.
edit: It has nothing to do with practice, or aspiring to be a progamer or whatnot. Gliche is right. The video's discussion of "casuals vs pros" is directed toward the newer generation of players who constantly cry over a games mechanics and spit on those who have the drive and desire to be great. Like he says, people say "if I played THAT much of XXXXXX game I'd be just as good too", when I'm sure that doesn't apply to 99% of TL readers. Yes the players that are great at the games we know best DO play a lot, but they go beyond, they learn, they strategize, they practice with purpose.. It's a cheers to the people who are passionate about the games they love, who play for the challenge and not because "it's the thing to do".
I was gonna point out the exact same thing. New generation and console allow crappy games to be made. There's too much fancy stuff instead of just playing a game with solid mechanics. Those kinds of points are what more than 3 minutes of the video is about.
The very last point he makes is also not that people can't go pro or become good, it's that there will always be someone better, someone that beats you etc, and that's just something you'll have to accept and try to work around or overcome, instead of crying about it or if you're gonna blame, blaming anyone or anything but yourself.
"Gamers play gamer for gameplay, if the proces of playing a game isn't fun for you then maybe you're not a gamer."
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i think it was more about the fact that challanging games are disappearing because of mass media. catering to what sells to everyone and trash what only sells to the few.
many games produced in asia are not released in the west because they are "to hard", and wont sell.
for the few that want that challange they get left out in the cold, typically these are hard core veteran gamers. They are mad because they are out in the cold watching wanna be gamers enjoy a hot cup of cut scene coco.
take farm ville for example, its hugely popular and people are lossing jobs over it. Meanwhile hardcore gamers are stuck at jobs they hate because they have nothing fun to call in sick for.
Its like saying, "hey thanks mister explorer for finding this new land to settle, now plz dont let the door hit your arse on the way out".
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There are some golden games out there that still stick with the philosophy of a challenge makes a good game.
For example anyone who hasn't played Demon's Souls and like a good challenging game. Well you're missing out cause that game is epic, hard and fun.
My point being there are good games that proper gamers will enjoy you just need to look for them.
edit: Also all that at the end about people not being a pro gamer cause they're not born to be I think that's honestly just nonsense. If you want to get good at something you just need to simply put in the time and effort. Might have to do more then someone who's naturally good at something but you'll still get there either way.
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Since I've shown this video to a number of people in the past and they didn't actually get the different messages. And so maybe it will add more discussion about the various points taken in the video. I took the time to write up a liberal translation of the point that I have found.
Some are condensed but here's what I found:
Overtime it seems many people have forgotten the most important ingredient to a good game.
This ingredient is not graphics, cut scenes etc but the actual gameplay, the controls, the combo's you need to make, the puzzles you need to solve.
Gameplay is what makes the game fun to play.
If I want a good story, I can read a book. If you like cutscenes, Go watch a movie.
(if you really like that, you probably also like a bad movie because you're easily satisfied)
Games used to be about being challenged to explore new gameplay mechanics, about learning or solving new puzzles, about improving your skills against all types of adversaries, and about feeling proud of your accomplishments.
Nowadays, it's mostly shiny graphics that can even carry a soccer mom caliber gamer through a generic 3th grade story where anyone with atleast a tiny brain can pretend to be a hero and maintain the illusion that he isn't terrible at it.
You don't need a backstory, you don't need a portrait, you don't need new gear. If the process of playing a game isn't fun for you then maybe you're not a gamer.
Even though I beat these new players very easily I've started to notice that the amount of them is starting to negatively affect gamedesign.
Instead of innovating and coming up with something as huge as a new chess, we have a continuous stream of 8 hour long interactive B movie experiences for 60 dollars a pop, with unimaginatively reskinned sequels released every year.
So the people who are not good at games, who play these abominations of games are the ones that allowed for this industry to flourish and bring even more of them in.
Now, I would't actually care that much but as it turns out, these people are poor sports and hate on us! The gamers who play the games for gameplay. And so we are subject to the endless abuse of idiotic whiners, "rusherfag, no life loser, hacker, imbalance" (overpowered should be there aswell)
But the only imbalance is that you are just worse than other people. Maybe you weren't good at sports in school but that's no reason to cry when you're getting raped in game.
Even worse are the reviewers that review the games for public consumption. They are champions of mob mentality. But it seems that in the gaming media circle being a noob is some kind of prerequisite. Going through life without a reason can be frustrating but calling a 3 hour singeplayer experience the height of game design and comparing the dialog of GTA to the godfather is absolutely retarded.
Here's the unpleasant truth, your teachers lied to you when they said that anyone, even you, can become an astronaut. Some people are just naturally better at certain things than others, there's something called talent.
Many people have a genuine desire to challenge themselves to be better, this doesn't make them alien or cruel and certainly not "rusherfags", it just makes them ubergamers (better than you). There's no reason to resent them.
The next time you think, "I could beat all the progamers if I just played as much as them". Think again.
+ Show Spoiler +pretty much gameplay defines games, games become movies, movie type brings in noob players, games become noobed, gameplay gamers rape the noobs, the noobs cry foul.
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I dont buy that "no matter how much you practise you never be GSL level"
There is no know natural born factors that separates GSL level players from others. It is only about amount of practise and the quality of practise. As long as you have normal intelligence and no physical disabilities, then there should be no skill cap.
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On March 08 2011 18:15 Axeinst wrote:
I dont buy that "no matter how much you practise you never be GSL level"
There is no know natural born factors that separates GSL level players from others. It is only about amount of practise and the quality of practise. As long as you have normal intelligence and no physical disabilities, then there should be no skill cap.
Honestly I think that was more refering to the utterly insane work ethic of the BW progamers. The amount of mental staminia to achive something like that is so insane.
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Makes you appreciate how amazing Yahtzee is when you hear someone do a poor man's copy. Without the British accent and a sense of humour those videos just kind of sound elitist and highly dislikeable.
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Talent is 100% true. Look at top players of most games "Tom Ogre 2" Ryan is probably the best example as he's regarded to be the best Halo 1, 2 and debatably 3 as well as Shadowrun player in the world.
And everyone knows gaming is dying fast anyway.
Blizzard are probably the only good developer left now, every other developer has given up and taking the easy money route...
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People underestimate the potential of human body and label those pros as "special individuals".
Unless there is clear physical factors that give other people an advantage like in basketball, there is no reason to claim that there is natural factors that prevent others from becoming the top player.
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It bothers me when people use "uber", which is a) misspelled b) mispronounced and c) not used in the same way these idiots think it was.
As for the video... who cares? Looks like he's wearing those hipster glasses with pride.
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On March 08 2011 18:36 Noli wrote:
Talent is 100% true. Look at top players of most games "Tom Ogre 2" Ryan is probably the best example as he's regarded to be the best Halo 1, 2 and debatably 3 as well as Shadowrun player in the world.
And everyone knows gaming is dying fast anyway.
Blizzard are probably the only good developer left now, every other developer has given up and taking the easy money route...
I think gaming is actually growing. I see a lot more people nowadays playing or accepting other people playing video games. At least in the US it's like that.
Also I want to say Valve is the other developer that still makes quality games. But besides them, yeah you're right. Everyone else is usually just looking to make a quick buck.
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I disagree. If you are not somehow mentally or physically crippled practising makes you better at starcraft and ofc the way you practise.
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People can keep holding on to the naive idea that practice will make you a pro, there is a reason why there are a few select players at the pro level out of the millions of players that comprise the player base... Just have fun, stop the competitive crap specially if you are diamond or below, just have fun and if you make it to masters league having fun so be it...
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On March 08 2011 19:03 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
People can keep holding on to the naive idea that practice will make you a pro, there is a reason why there are a few select players at the pro level out of the millions of players that comprise the player base... Just have fun, stop the competitive crap specially if you are diamond or below, just have fun and if you make it to masters league having fun so be it...
There's nothing wrong with having fun with a game but I think its that kind of attitude that prevents a lot of people from actually getting to the professional level is because they just figure oh well I can't do it and then they just give up and don't bother trying.
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On March 08 2011 18:57 Gliche wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 18:36 Noli wrote:
Talent is 100% true. Look at top players of most games "Tom Ogre 2" Ryan is probably the best example as he's regarded to be the best Halo 1, 2 and debatably 3 as well as Shadowrun player in the world.
And everyone knows gaming is dying fast anyway.
Blizzard are probably the only good developer left now, every other developer has given up and taking the easy money route... I think gaming is actually growing. I see a lot more people nowadays playing or accepting other people playing video games. At least in the US it's like that. Also I want to say Valve is the other developer that still makes quality games. But besides them, yeah you're right. Everyone else is usually just looking to make a quick buck.
Yeah it's growing but only in popularity and quantity. The quality drops rapidly every year.
Not only the quality but to make the game more popular they decrease the skill gap to where it's none existent just to increase sales. *cough* COD BS *cough*
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Those who watched Pure Pwnage knows that the main character Jeremy is a childish guy, Nahtzee is obviously narrated from Jeremy's perspective. Jeremy is uber pro and everyone else is a noob, that's just how it is, no amount of practice will ever bridge that gap. It's the same basic character as "the best paladin in the world".
Pure Pwnage is awesome, the first episodes are my favorites but all of them are great. It's free to watch on purepwnage.com
If you haven't you really have to watch the first episode!
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On March 08 2011 19:03 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
People can keep holding on to the naive idea that practice will make you a pro, there is a reason why there are a few select players at the pro level out of the millions of players that comprise the player base... Just have fun, stop the competitive crap specially if you are diamond or below, just have fun and if you make it to masters league having fun so be it...
Argh people like this attitude so make me mad. I am honest, it is fucking stupid to think like that because there is absolutely no reasoning or evidence.
Your though process goes like this:
There is few people at the top -> not everybody cannot become top because there is only few people at the top.
The fact is, that to become top of starcraft you need only normal intelligence and body with no disabilities. There is no known natural born factors that makes those gsl-players apart from others.
If you are going to claim that in order to become gsl material you need to have some special and natural things that others dont have, you need to have evidence for that. In basketball, there is clear evidence of those kind of factors, like tallness.
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Not a fan of that video, being degratory doesn't enhance your argument.
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United Arab Emirates333 Posts
Was that jeremy from total pwnage ?
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On March 08 2011 18:57 Gliche wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 18:36 Noli wrote:
Talent is 100% true. Look at top players of most games "Tom Ogre 2" Ryan is probably the best example as he's regarded to be the best Halo 1, 2 and debatably 3 as well as Shadowrun player in the world.
And everyone knows gaming is dying fast anyway.
Blizzard are probably the only good developer left now, every other developer has given up and taking the easy money route... I think gaming is actually growing. I see a lot more people nowadays playing or accepting other people playing video games. At least in the US it's like that. Also I want to say Valve is the other developer that still makes quality games. But besides them, yeah you're right. Everyone else is usually just looking to make a quick buck.
This is the type of elitist bullshit that i hate, but it's always going to be around. Fuck off dude. I'm probably going to be warned or temp banned, but seriously? NO other good developers aside from Blizzard and Valve? Do you live in a fucking cave or something? Do you only play games from those developers?
Just look at the countless list of awesome games that are made for nintendo systems. Metroid Prime? Super Mario Galaxy? Legend of mother fuckin Zelda? You're telling me these games aren't quality?
Final Fantasy series? Sure, Square Enix screws up sometimes, but they learn from their mistakes, and have been masters of RPG games for a long time.
BioWare? They've made some of the most revered PC RPG games. Baldur's Gate 2? Knights of the Old Republic? Dragon Age?
and what about the most important company to multi-player video games to date... ID Software. They were (I believe) the first company that made LAN between games possible. They also influenced an ENTIRE generation of FPS games, and are still coming out with new shit.
Do I need to continue? I've got a handful of other game developers I can give to you as examples.
User was warned for this post
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EPT
