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On March 08 2011 01:03 Floydian wrote:
I'm having 2 problems with this method so far:
1) Like some other people, I'm not liking the fact that when you shift between bases, there's that initial camera wobble where it shifts to the queen, it slows down the process quite considerably for me.
2) Unlike simply using backspace, the camera will often repeat back to bases that have already been injected before shifting to un-injected bases. I was just testing this on Xel-naga, and it would often shift to my nat, then to my main, then instead of then shifting to my next base, it shifts first back to the nat. Means you have to cycle more times.
Those two combined may be a deal breaker for me, gonna see if i get used to it though.
Nice find though, kudos on discovering this!
The second problem only happens when theres not a queen close enough to the new hatchery. This is the whole purpose of the button not to miss click a hatchery with a queen not beside it.
This first problem is just getting used to the new method, you can always go back to the old one.
It only slows it down because your used to spamming inject like most backspace injectors.
Its not much slower, its more accurate because it stops the chance of queens running around.
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On March 08 2011 01:08 ChefStarCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 01:03 Floydian wrote:
I'm having 2 problems with this method so far:
1) Like some other people, I'm not liking the fact that when you shift between bases, there's that initial camera wobble where it shifts to the queen, it slows down the process quite considerably for me.
2) Unlike simply using backspace, the camera will often repeat back to bases that have already been injected before shifting to un-injected bases. I was just testing this on Xel-naga, and it would often shift to my nat, then to my main, then instead of then shifting to my next base, it shifts first back to the nat. Means you have to cycle more times.
Those two combined may be a deal breaker for me, gonna see if i get used to it though.
Nice find though, kudos on discovering this! The second problem only happens when theres not a queen close enough to the new hatchery. This is the whole purpose of the button not to miss click a hatchery with a queen not beside it.
Actually no. It would shift to my nat where I would inject, then it would shift to my main, where I would inject, then instead of going to my next queen-ready base, it would shift back to my nat, only then would it shift to my next queen.
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On March 08 2011 01:04 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 00:59 ChefStarCraft wrote:
It will follow the next selection if you haven't paned away.
In the case its doing that in your play, with my new method's set up i have follow current selection set to Q as a alternate hot key, to turn of whenever i need to. Oh wow, that's a huge issue to me... hmm. Guess I'll just add Q to the start and end of the cycle.
You don't even need to use it, just change shift + inject button to your follow current selection hotkey.
Q is just a nice button to help if its ever a problem.
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On March 08 2011 00:53 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 00:44 Kambing wrote:On March 08 2011 00:35 Chill wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 08 2011 00:31 ChefStarCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 00:29 Chill wrote:On March 07 2011 14:33 DreamChaser wrote:On March 07 2011 14:16 Nemireck wrote:On March 07 2011 13:11 Chill wrote:
Is larva injecting this difficult that people are modifying hotkeys and coming up with complex systems to do it? Why shouldn't they? The tools are provided by Blizzard, in the game's options, specifically for making tasks in the game easier to execute by creating more comfortable hotkey setups. The onus is on you to share with us why players shouldn't be experimenting with the provided options to solve problems that occur while playing the game. Let me give you something from Chill's perspective or at least mine from a BW stand point. SC:BW although there was no larva inject or creep spread, the game became a legend because of the mechanics required to play the game. There was no multiple hatcheries binded to one key or 24 mutalisk on one hot key. when you wanted to spawn larva you had to click on each hatch and make a unit. There are a million other things i could tell you that made BW more difficult but i really don't want to inflame more of a SC2 vs BW. What im trying to get at is people need to practice mechanics and one of these mechanics is larva inject. Honestly people expect to much form Blizzard now, they want SC2 to be "user friendly" but really they may as well let the damn computers play for the players. I guess this is where I'm coming from, although I didn't realize it until you guys wrote it. I see people writing these programs play sounds or write text to tell you when to inject and things like that. This obviously doesn't take it that far, but I guess I'm just worried people will get tunnel vision about injecting when there's a lot of other things to do as well. Obviously that didn't come out in my one-line OP. Anyways, I'll continue to try it before I post again, but I haven't had too many issues with just using 66 77 88 for my first three Queens. My actual thinking is not tunnel vision with this method, but rather the opposite. If we can do this in good time, we have time to do other things like lay creep tumors. I insist on trying the new method with the follow current unit selection as shift + inject button. I also recommend my thread on creep spreading ideas, theres a link in my op Well, my point is that if you do it individually you think to control the units individually. If you use this technique as a crutch you run through the entire action list as opposed to thinking about the units individually. It's hard for me to put it on paper. This might crystallize what you're trying to get across better Chill. What do you think you gain from individually controlling queens over doing a semi-automated approach like this? I used to argue that individual control lets you check energies more efficiently, lets you respond to drops better, etc., but I've found that queen injecting is one of those things that you just don't gain a lot by trying to be more precise or deliberate about your control with it. I feel it's better to pick the most automated way possible (that's comfortable for you) and then put that focus into something else, e.g., creep tumor spreading. You're probably right. I like seeing the energy to plan my creep tumours and prepare transfusions if attacks are coming, but like you said thats a fringe situation. You would be better off having 10% faster injections and giving up this "luxury". I guess I'm seeing the following situation: 3 Hatcheries, 3 Queens. The expansion is getting harassed by a Banshee. The "old" player would 66v 88v and then 77 and fight the banshee. But the person using this technique wouldn't inject anything until everything is completely clear.
it seems to me that you are just trying to make your point valid. Its not like you couldnt select the queen individuhally, you can also hotkey them differently but inject with the faster method. For Creeptumors you will need an extra queen anyway.
You could also say its better to ahve all queens hotkeyed togheter because you will be able to block of your chocke faster against hellions or banelings. But i dont think fighting off a banshee on 3 bases should be a reason to use a disadvantageous injection method- since normally banshees hit when zerg is on 2 base or you will have mutas/infestors to deal with banshees.
I used to have my queens indvidually hotkeyed for a long time and the backspace method is just the superior way to inject. Especially if you get like 3 or more hatches all with a queen - you are also able to inject 5 hatches instead of the limited amount you get because you just dont have more hotkeys. I have 3 hotkeys for army 1 hotkey for hatches 1 hotkey for queens 1 hotkey for my spire 1 hotkey for my evo chambers 1 for spreading creep and if i have overseers they are getting hotkeyed as well
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On March 08 2011 01:09 Floydian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 01:08 ChefStarCraft wrote:On March 08 2011 01:03 Floydian wrote:
I'm having 2 problems with this method so far:
1) Like some other people, I'm not liking the fact that when you shift between bases, there's that initial camera wobble where it shifts to the queen, it slows down the process quite considerably for me.
2) Unlike simply using backspace, the camera will often repeat back to bases that have already been injected before shifting to un-injected bases. I was just testing this on Xel-naga, and it would often shift to my nat, then to my main, then instead of then shifting to my next base, it shifts first back to the nat. Means you have to cycle more times.
Those two combined may be a deal breaker for me, gonna see if i get used to it though.
Nice find though, kudos on discovering this! The second problem only happens when theres not a queen close enough to the new hatchery. This is the whole purpose of the button not to miss click a hatchery with a queen not beside it. Actually no. It would shift to my nat where I would inject, then it would shift to my main, where I would inject, then instead of going to my next queen-ready base, it would shift back to my nat, only then would it shift to my next queen.
This hasn't become a problem for me using this. Sounds to me like your just hitting the base camera button to fast.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On March 08 2011 01:12 idonthinksobro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 00:53 Chill wrote:On March 08 2011 00:44 Kambing wrote:On March 08 2011 00:35 Chill wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 08 2011 00:31 ChefStarCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 00:29 Chill wrote:On March 07 2011 14:33 DreamChaser wrote:On March 07 2011 14:16 Nemireck wrote:On March 07 2011 13:11 Chill wrote:
Is larva injecting this difficult that people are modifying hotkeys and coming up with complex systems to do it? Why shouldn't they? The tools are provided by Blizzard, in the game's options, specifically for making tasks in the game easier to execute by creating more comfortable hotkey setups. The onus is on you to share with us why players shouldn't be experimenting with the provided options to solve problems that occur while playing the game. Let me give you something from Chill's perspective or at least mine from a BW stand point. SC:BW although there was no larva inject or creep spread, the game became a legend because of the mechanics required to play the game. There was no multiple hatcheries binded to one key or 24 mutalisk on one hot key. when you wanted to spawn larva you had to click on each hatch and make a unit. There are a million other things i could tell you that made BW more difficult but i really don't want to inflame more of a SC2 vs BW. What im trying to get at is people need to practice mechanics and one of these mechanics is larva inject. Honestly people expect to much form Blizzard now, they want SC2 to be "user friendly" but really they may as well let the damn computers play for the players. I guess this is where I'm coming from, although I didn't realize it until you guys wrote it. I see people writing these programs play sounds or write text to tell you when to inject and things like that. This obviously doesn't take it that far, but I guess I'm just worried people will get tunnel vision about injecting when there's a lot of other things to do as well. Obviously that didn't come out in my one-line OP. Anyways, I'll continue to try it before I post again, but I haven't had too many issues with just using 66 77 88 for my first three Queens. My actual thinking is not tunnel vision with this method, but rather the opposite. If we can do this in good time, we have time to do other things like lay creep tumors. I insist on trying the new method with the follow current unit selection as shift + inject button. I also recommend my thread on creep spreading ideas, theres a link in my op Well, my point is that if you do it individually you think to control the units individually. If you use this technique as a crutch you run through the entire action list as opposed to thinking about the units individually. It's hard for me to put it on paper. This might crystallize what you're trying to get across better Chill. What do you think you gain from individually controlling queens over doing a semi-automated approach like this? I used to argue that individual control lets you check energies more efficiently, lets you respond to drops better, etc., but I've found that queen injecting is one of those things that you just don't gain a lot by trying to be more precise or deliberate about your control with it. I feel it's better to pick the most automated way possible (that's comfortable for you) and then put that focus into something else, e.g., creep tumor spreading. You're probably right. I like seeing the energy to plan my creep tumours and prepare transfusions if attacks are coming, but like you said thats a fringe situation. You would be better off having 10% faster injections and giving up this "luxury". I guess I'm seeing the following situation: 3 Hatcheries, 3 Queens. The expansion is getting harassed by a Banshee. The "old" player would 66v 88v and then 77 and fight the banshee. But the person using this technique wouldn't inject anything until everything is completely clear. it seems to me that you are just trying to make your point valid. Its not like you couldnt select the queen individuhally, you can also hotkey them differently but inject with the faster method. For Creeptumors you will need an extra queen anyway. You could also say its better to ahve all queens hotkeyed togheter because you will be able to block of your chocke faster against hellions or banelings. But i dont think fighting off a banshee on 3 bases should be a reason to use a disadvantageous injection method- since normally banshees hit when zerg is on 2 base or you will have mutas/infestors to deal with banshees. I used to have my queens indvidually hotkeyed for a long time and the backspace method is just the superior way to inject. Especially if you get like 3 or more hatches all with a queen - you are also able to inject 5 hatches instead of the limited amount you get because you just dont have more hotkeys. I have 3 hotkeys for army 1 hotkey for hatches 1 hotkey for queens 1 hotkey for my spire 1 hotkey for my evo chambers 1 for spreading creep and if i have overseers they are getting hotkeyed as well
Being an expert in all methods is obviously ideal. That's the point I'm trying to make - there are situations you will not want to use this so don't rely on it too heavily. That's it.
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On March 08 2011 01:16 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 01:12 idonthinksobro wrote:On March 08 2011 00:53 Chill wrote:On March 08 2011 00:44 Kambing wrote:On March 08 2011 00:35 Chill wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 08 2011 00:31 ChefStarCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 00:29 Chill wrote:On March 07 2011 14:33 DreamChaser wrote:On March 07 2011 14:16 Nemireck wrote:On March 07 2011 13:11 Chill wrote:
Is larva injecting this difficult that people are modifying hotkeys and coming up with complex systems to do it? Why shouldn't they? The tools are provided by Blizzard, in the game's options, specifically for making tasks in the game easier to execute by creating more comfortable hotkey setups. The onus is on you to share with us why players shouldn't be experimenting with the provided options to solve problems that occur while playing the game. Let me give you something from Chill's perspective or at least mine from a BW stand point. SC:BW although there was no larva inject or creep spread, the game became a legend because of the mechanics required to play the game. There was no multiple hatcheries binded to one key or 24 mutalisk on one hot key. when you wanted to spawn larva you had to click on each hatch and make a unit. There are a million other things i could tell you that made BW more difficult but i really don't want to inflame more of a SC2 vs BW. What im trying to get at is people need to practice mechanics and one of these mechanics is larva inject. Honestly people expect to much form Blizzard now, they want SC2 to be "user friendly" but really they may as well let the damn computers play for the players. I guess this is where I'm coming from, although I didn't realize it until you guys wrote it. I see people writing these programs play sounds or write text to tell you when to inject and things like that. This obviously doesn't take it that far, but I guess I'm just worried people will get tunnel vision about injecting when there's a lot of other things to do as well. Obviously that didn't come out in my one-line OP. Anyways, I'll continue to try it before I post again, but I haven't had too many issues with just using 66 77 88 for my first three Queens. My actual thinking is not tunnel vision with this method, but rather the opposite. If we can do this in good time, we have time to do other things like lay creep tumors. I insist on trying the new method with the follow current unit selection as shift + inject button. I also recommend my thread on creep spreading ideas, theres a link in my op Well, my point is that if you do it individually you think to control the units individually. If you use this technique as a crutch you run through the entire action list as opposed to thinking about the units individually. It's hard for me to put it on paper. This might crystallize what you're trying to get across better Chill. What do you think you gain from individually controlling queens over doing a semi-automated approach like this? I used to argue that individual control lets you check energies more efficiently, lets you respond to drops better, etc., but I've found that queen injecting is one of those things that you just don't gain a lot by trying to be more precise or deliberate about your control with it. I feel it's better to pick the most automated way possible (that's comfortable for you) and then put that focus into something else, e.g., creep tumor spreading. You're probably right. I like seeing the energy to plan my creep tumours and prepare transfusions if attacks are coming, but like you said thats a fringe situation. You would be better off having 10% faster injections and giving up this "luxury". I guess I'm seeing the following situation: 3 Hatcheries, 3 Queens. The expansion is getting harassed by a Banshee. The "old" player would 66v 88v and then 77 and fight the banshee. But the person using this technique wouldn't inject anything until everything is completely clear. it seems to me that you are just trying to make your point valid. Its not like you couldnt select the queen individuhally, you can also hotkey them differently but inject with the faster method. For Creeptumors you will need an extra queen anyway. You could also say its better to ahve all queens hotkeyed togheter because you will be able to block of your chocke faster against hellions or banelings. But i dont think fighting off a banshee on 3 bases should be a reason to use a disadvantageous injection method- since normally banshees hit when zerg is on 2 base or you will have mutas/infestors to deal with banshees. I used to have my queens indvidually hotkeyed for a long time and the backspace method is just the superior way to inject. Especially if you get like 3 or more hatches all with a queen - you are also able to inject 5 hatches instead of the limited amount you get because you just dont have more hotkeys. I have 3 hotkeys for army 1 hotkey for hatches 1 hotkey for queens 1 hotkey for my spire 1 hotkey for my evo chambers 1 for spreading creep and if i have overseers they are getting hotkeyed as well Being an expert in all methods is obviously ideal. That's the point I'm trying to make - there are situations you will not want to use this so don't rely on it too heavily. That's it.
Exactly just use it when it carrys on to a heavy macro game.
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On March 08 2011 01:17 ChefStarCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 01:16 Chill wrote:On March 08 2011 01:12 idonthinksobro wrote:On March 08 2011 00:53 Chill wrote:On March 08 2011 00:44 Kambing wrote:On March 08 2011 00:35 Chill wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 08 2011 00:31 ChefStarCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 00:29 Chill wrote:On March 07 2011 14:33 DreamChaser wrote:On March 07 2011 14:16 Nemireck wrote:On March 07 2011 13:11 Chill wrote:
Is larva injecting this difficult that people are modifying hotkeys and coming up with complex systems to do it? Why shouldn't they? The tools are provided by Blizzard, in the game's options, specifically for making tasks in the game easier to execute by creating more comfortable hotkey setups. The onus is on you to share with us why players shouldn't be experimenting with the provided options to solve problems that occur while playing the game. Let me give you something from Chill's perspective or at least mine from a BW stand point. SC:BW although there was no larva inject or creep spread, the game became a legend because of the mechanics required to play the game. There was no multiple hatcheries binded to one key or 24 mutalisk on one hot key. when you wanted to spawn larva you had to click on each hatch and make a unit. There are a million other things i could tell you that made BW more difficult but i really don't want to inflame more of a SC2 vs BW. What im trying to get at is people need to practice mechanics and one of these mechanics is larva inject. Honestly people expect to much form Blizzard now, they want SC2 to be "user friendly" but really they may as well let the damn computers play for the players. I guess this is where I'm coming from, although I didn't realize it until you guys wrote it. I see people writing these programs play sounds or write text to tell you when to inject and things like that. This obviously doesn't take it that far, but I guess I'm just worried people will get tunnel vision about injecting when there's a lot of other things to do as well. Obviously that didn't come out in my one-line OP. Anyways, I'll continue to try it before I post again, but I haven't had too many issues with just using 66 77 88 for my first three Queens. My actual thinking is not tunnel vision with this method, but rather the opposite. If we can do this in good time, we have time to do other things like lay creep tumors. I insist on trying the new method with the follow current unit selection as shift + inject button. I also recommend my thread on creep spreading ideas, theres a link in my op Well, my point is that if you do it individually you think to control the units individually. If you use this technique as a crutch you run through the entire action list as opposed to thinking about the units individually. It's hard for me to put it on paper. This might crystallize what you're trying to get across better Chill. What do you think you gain from individually controlling queens over doing a semi-automated approach like this? I used to argue that individual control lets you check energies more efficiently, lets you respond to drops better, etc., but I've found that queen injecting is one of those things that you just don't gain a lot by trying to be more precise or deliberate about your control with it. I feel it's better to pick the most automated way possible (that's comfortable for you) and then put that focus into something else, e.g., creep tumor spreading. You're probably right. I like seeing the energy to plan my creep tumours and prepare transfusions if attacks are coming, but like you said thats a fringe situation. You would be better off having 10% faster injections and giving up this "luxury". I guess I'm seeing the following situation: 3 Hatcheries, 3 Queens. The expansion is getting harassed by a Banshee. The "old" player would 66v 88v and then 77 and fight the banshee. But the person using this technique wouldn't inject anything until everything is completely clear. it seems to me that you are just trying to make your point valid. Its not like you couldnt select the queen individuhally, you can also hotkey them differently but inject with the faster method. For Creeptumors you will need an extra queen anyway. You could also say its better to ahve all queens hotkeyed togheter because you will be able to block of your chocke faster against hellions or banelings. But i dont think fighting off a banshee on 3 bases should be a reason to use a disadvantageous injection method- since normally banshees hit when zerg is on 2 base or you will have mutas/infestors to deal with banshees. I used to have my queens indvidually hotkeyed for a long time and the backspace method is just the superior way to inject. Especially if you get like 3 or more hatches all with a queen - you are also able to inject 5 hatches instead of the limited amount you get because you just dont have more hotkeys. I have 3 hotkeys for army 1 hotkey for hatches 1 hotkey for queens 1 hotkey for my spire 1 hotkey for my evo chambers 1 for spreading creep and if i have overseers they are getting hotkeyed as well Being an expert in all methods is obviously ideal. That's the point I'm trying to make - there are situations you will not want to use this so don't rely on it too heavily. That's it. Exactly just use it when it carrys on to a heavy macro game.
Time and practice will be required to figure out when to shift from one method to another.... it'd be more appealing if one method fixed all but I'm still on the fence as to how reliable this can be in the heat of the moment.... I'd probably still stick to the 66v77v88v method for consistency
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On March 08 2011 01:21 aka_star wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 01:17 ChefStarCraft wrote:On March 08 2011 01:16 Chill wrote:On March 08 2011 01:12 idonthinksobro wrote:On March 08 2011 00:53 Chill wrote:On March 08 2011 00:44 Kambing wrote:On March 08 2011 00:35 Chill wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 08 2011 00:31 ChefStarCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 00:29 Chill wrote:On March 07 2011 14:33 DreamChaser wrote:On March 07 2011 14:16 Nemireck wrote:On March 07 2011 13:11 Chill wrote:
Is larva injecting this difficult that people are modifying hotkeys and coming up with complex systems to do it? Why shouldn't they? The tools are provided by Blizzard, in the game's options, specifically for making tasks in the game easier to execute by creating more comfortable hotkey setups. The onus is on you to share with us why players shouldn't be experimenting with the provided options to solve problems that occur while playing the game. Let me give you something from Chill's perspective or at least mine from a BW stand point. SC:BW although there was no larva inject or creep spread, the game became a legend because of the mechanics required to play the game. There was no multiple hatcheries binded to one key or 24 mutalisk on one hot key. when you wanted to spawn larva you had to click on each hatch and make a unit. There are a million other things i could tell you that made BW more difficult but i really don't want to inflame more of a SC2 vs BW. What im trying to get at is people need to practice mechanics and one of these mechanics is larva inject. Honestly people expect to much form Blizzard now, they want SC2 to be "user friendly" but really they may as well let the damn computers play for the players. I guess this is where I'm coming from, although I didn't realize it until you guys wrote it. I see people writing these programs play sounds or write text to tell you when to inject and things like that. This obviously doesn't take it that far, but I guess I'm just worried people will get tunnel vision about injecting when there's a lot of other things to do as well. Obviously that didn't come out in my one-line OP. Anyways, I'll continue to try it before I post again, but I haven't had too many issues with just using 66 77 88 for my first three Queens. My actual thinking is not tunnel vision with this method, but rather the opposite. If we can do this in good time, we have time to do other things like lay creep tumors. I insist on trying the new method with the follow current unit selection as shift + inject button. I also recommend my thread on creep spreading ideas, theres a link in my op Well, my point is that if you do it individually you think to control the units individually. If you use this technique as a crutch you run through the entire action list as opposed to thinking about the units individually. It's hard for me to put it on paper. This might crystallize what you're trying to get across better Chill. What do you think you gain from individually controlling queens over doing a semi-automated approach like this? I used to argue that individual control lets you check energies more efficiently, lets you respond to drops better, etc., but I've found that queen injecting is one of those things that you just don't gain a lot by trying to be more precise or deliberate about your control with it. I feel it's better to pick the most automated way possible (that's comfortable for you) and then put that focus into something else, e.g., creep tumor spreading. You're probably right. I like seeing the energy to plan my creep tumours and prepare transfusions if attacks are coming, but like you said thats a fringe situation. You would be better off having 10% faster injections and giving up this "luxury". I guess I'm seeing the following situation: 3 Hatcheries, 3 Queens. The expansion is getting harassed by a Banshee. The "old" player would 66v 88v and then 77 and fight the banshee. But the person using this technique wouldn't inject anything until everything is completely clear. it seems to me that you are just trying to make your point valid. Its not like you couldnt select the queen individuhally, you can also hotkey them differently but inject with the faster method. For Creeptumors you will need an extra queen anyway. You could also say its better to ahve all queens hotkeyed togheter because you will be able to block of your chocke faster against hellions or banelings. But i dont think fighting off a banshee on 3 bases should be a reason to use a disadvantageous injection method- since normally banshees hit when zerg is on 2 base or you will have mutas/infestors to deal with banshees. I used to have my queens indvidually hotkeyed for a long time and the backspace method is just the superior way to inject. Especially if you get like 3 or more hatches all with a queen - you are also able to inject 5 hatches instead of the limited amount you get because you just dont have more hotkeys. I have 3 hotkeys for army 1 hotkey for hatches 1 hotkey for queens 1 hotkey for my spire 1 hotkey for my evo chambers 1 for spreading creep and if i have overseers they are getting hotkeyed as well Being an expert in all methods is obviously ideal. That's the point I'm trying to make - there are situations you will not want to use this so don't rely on it too heavily. That's it. Exactly just use it when it carrys on to a heavy macro game. Time and practice will be required to figure out when to shift from one method to another.... it'd be more appealing if one method fixed all but I'm still on the fence as to how reliable this can be in the heat of the moment.... I'd probably still stick to the 66v77v88v method for consistency
I will go to this method when i have 3 to 4 hatcheries with queens beside them, because its simply going to be faster at that time. Until then I use the base camera to fit all my needs for each hatchery.
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On March 07 2011 17:59 darkmare wrote:
its a real cool idea.
But since it was said on stream you won't be able to modify hotkeys on competitive LANs i really dunno. I ll refrain from hotkey changes like that even if i am never able to compete at one myself =D.
what, where does it say that?
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On March 08 2011 00:35 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2011 00:31 ChefStarCraft wrote:On March 08 2011 00:29 Chill wrote:On March 07 2011 14:33 DreamChaser wrote:On March 07 2011 14:16 Nemireck wrote:On March 07 2011 13:11 Chill wrote:
Is larva injecting this difficult that people are modifying hotkeys and coming up with complex systems to do it? Why shouldn't they? The tools are provided by Blizzard, in the game's options, specifically for making tasks in the game easier to execute by creating more comfortable hotkey setups. The onus is on you to share with us why players shouldn't be experimenting with the provided options to solve problems that occur while playing the game. Let me give you something from Chill's perspective or at least mine from a BW stand point. SC:BW although there was no larva inject or creep spread, the game became a legend because of the mechanics required to play the game. There was no multiple hatcheries binded to one key or 24 mutalisk on one hot key. when you wanted to spawn larva you had to click on each hatch and make a unit. There are a million other things i could tell you that made BW more difficult but i really don't want to inflame more of a SC2 vs BW. What im trying to get at is people need to practice mechanics and one of these mechanics is larva inject. Honestly people expect to much form Blizzard now, they want SC2 to be "user friendly" but really they may as well let the damn computers play for the players. I guess this is where I'm coming from, although I didn't realize it until you guys wrote it. I see people writing these programs play sounds or write text to tell you when to inject and things like that. This obviously doesn't take it that far, but I guess I'm just worried people will get tunnel vision about injecting when there's a lot of other things to do as well. Obviously that didn't come out in my one-line OP. Anyways, I'll continue to try it before I post again, but I haven't had too many issues with just using 66 77 88 for my first three Queens. My actual thinking is not tunnel vision with this method, but rather the opposite. If we can do this in good time, we have time to do other things like lay creep tumors. I insist on trying the new method with the follow current unit selection as shift + inject button. I also recommend my thread on creep spreading ideas, theres a link in my op Well, my point is that if you do it individually you think to control the units individually. If you use this technique as a crutch you run through the entire action list as opposed to thinking about the units individually. It's hard for me to put it on paper.
That's exactly why the "queen meltdown" happened in the first place, people would run through the normal backspace cycle and over the course of the game things would get moved around, queens weren't in the proper place and people would try to inject when a queen wasn't where it should be. This solves the problem caused by the original problem, not the original problem itself, which is people's mechanics/hotkey usage. Feels like a bandaid.
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On March 07 2011 12:28 ChefStarCraft wrote:
It works by pressing shift+inject button (don't hold shift), inject button, then hold shift, cycle using base camera and inject like normal.
This will activate it and make it so you don't even have to practice a new button in your cycles.
I believe you'd be better off pressing the inject button first, hold shift, inject button again, then cycle through bases. This way you don't have to let go of shift and repress it. Minor perhaps but it's the same result and mechanically easier to perform.
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Okay I have some problems with this:
When you do it too fast, you still have queens wandering around
When you do it too slow, you have to move your mouse to hit the individual hatches, because your screen will be placed at different positions, this is extremely dominant when the queens stand on different sides of the hatch (like one queen on the left at one hatch, at another hatch the queen stands on the right)
This is just as unreliable as the backspace method IMO. But there's a fix even easier then yours: Backspace inject and then press the stop or hold position button. But then again if your queens stand to far away from your hatch they don't inject
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This helped me alot! Thanks!
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Nice method, I think I'll give it a try as I have pretty good injects already but was too lazy to take up this system and have to manage queens running everywhere all the time.
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On March 08 2011 02:38 azzu wrote:
Okay I have some problems with this:
When you do it too fast, you still have queens wandering around
When you do it too slow, you have to move your mouse to hit the individual hatches, because your screen will be placed at different positions, this is extremely dominant when the queens stand on different sides of the hatch (like one queen on the left at one hatch, at another hatch the queen stands on the right)
This is just as unreliable as the backspace method IMO. But there's a fix even easier then yours: Backspace inject and then press the stop or hold position button. But then again if your queens stand to far away from your hatch they don't inject
I have to disagree, I Believe its more reliable.You just need to allow a very small delay to allow the screen to zone in on the queen. Its such a slight delay. And no i don't think this is a down side, making you go '"slower".
People are just picking at the problem, nothings good enough, I spent allot of time, thought, and ideas figuring this out. If your not going to allow the small delay its not what this method is. Just because you cant spam click like we all want too, dosent mean this is ineffective. Its not the same method, please get this straight.
If you don't like it for that reason, go ahead and use the backspace method without it, and risk queens running around. This is still a very fast way to inject all at once safely. You shouldn't be using this method until you have 3-4 hatcheries anyway.
The stoping of the queens is not as easy. Your still going to click on that hatch you have to be extra paranoid not to, so you can press stop, not to mention watch the mini map to see any queens running out of place.. You don't have to worry about anything with this method. Just because you need to look where you are clicking, dose not mean its a downside, your just comparing it to the original back space method. Let me say again, this is a different method, and more accurate for reasons i just stated, and isn't unreliable for those reasons, your just executing it incorrectly, you may press all the right buttons, but that dosent mean your doing it right.
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On March 08 2011 02:16 dvide wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 12:28 ChefStarCraft wrote:
It works by pressing shift+inject button (don't hold shift), inject button, then hold shift, cycle using base camera and inject like normal.
This will activate it and make it so you don't even have to practice a new button in your cycles. I believe you'd be better off pressing the inject button first, hold shift, inject button again, then cycle through bases. This way you don't have to let go of shift and repress it. Minor perhaps but it's the same result and mechanically easier to perform.
Nice idea !, I will try it thank you
If it works I will edit,
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WOW. That's great! I'll definitely have to spend the time breaking myself of the 5-5-v-click, 6-6-v-click, 7-7-v-click method, but I think this will help me a tonnnnnn! Thanks so much Chef.
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i think we should call this the ironchef method
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On March 08 2011 11:25 SC.Shifty wrote:
i think we should call this the ironchef method
:D I really like that idea, I'm a slave of the kitchen first and SC second.
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EPT
