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Chill: I will now be moderating this thread heavily. Some of the ways people are talking down to each other in here are completely unacceptable. |
If they remove Khaydarin Amulet the usage statistics for High Templar are going straight down the drain, for a long long time. Who is going to want to use a unit that is so high tier, expensive, and slow when Voidray, phoenix, double robo, collosus etc are all better choices? High Templars barely pay for themselves with KA, without it, its going to be disastrous.
They really need to stop with nerfs, it makes the game a lot less interesting and removes familiar aspects, instead they should be adding new content or buffs which would make sense considering Zerg seems very under played and possibly under powered atm. Starcraft 2 is new, I'd rather deal with buffs and additions than nerfs and subtractions.
If they are to remove Khaydarin Amulet, something of equal use really needs to be implemented for them. Infestors and Ghosts use carry-over defensive abilities like burrow and cloak. Maybe High Templars should now benefit from the blink upgrade, it would fill the void that KA did. Just an idea.
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On March 10 2011 10:20 Sek-Kuar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 09:13 v3chr0 wrote:On March 10 2011 09:02 Ayeffkay wrote:
...A Ghost with Moebius who pops out of the barracks at the right time can save the day, but an HT that spawns without enough mana to storm is a big juicy target for 50 seconds. There is a very real difference between a unit that takes 50 seconds to spawn but can act instantly, and a unit that spawns instantly but takes 50 seconds to act. If the real problem with KA is that I can decide I need HTs now and summon them nigh-instantaneously, as many in this thread are saying, then it's the Warpgate mechanic that's really the problem.
Of course, that begs the question of whether on-demand Zealots, Stalkers, Sentries, and DTs need to be examined (and personally I hate enemy pylons outside my base as much as anyone else), but that's a topic for a different thread. I agree completely. If anything, warping in HT's needs to be looked at, not Khaydarin Amulet. I'd be alright with HT's having a long production time even if they were warped in. Dropping KA, is not reasonable in the slightest in retrospect of Terrans tech versatility and unit diversity. High Templars are shiny and slow, but can be warped in wherever possible, and can only readily feedback w/o upgrades, so any unit without energy is unhindered by them at first. Infestors are fast on creep and medium off, but can move while burrowed and deploy Infested Terrans while burrowed (which are a general purpose unit). Ghosts can use Cloak aside from being great vs. Light in an army, and snipe is readily available for general use. That being said, it makes it a lot easier for Ghosts and Infestors to be a unit that can live, wait for their energy, follow an army, and be kept around. In/after a battle, High Templars either die, get EMPd or merge, rarely do they escape a retreat and live to storm again. Protoss is all about tech, psi/shields, and really good spells. If someone took out your first expo, you can hold the game with ramp forcefields. T/Z still have options to negate the Force Field, just like they have options to negate High Templars. All the casters are already damn well balanced, any changes to Ghosts or HTs will probably not go well. I doubt Blizzard is ever going to do anything significant with Warp-In, and if I cant imagine it before HotS. If you look at it, Warp-In is reason why is Dark Shrine so expensive and takeforever to build, very likely reason why are both Templars separated, reason for this KA change and most important reason why are Gateway units relatively weak. But Blizzard is not going to change it. Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 06:45 rXs wrote:
LOL. no. Protoss DIDN'T forget HT in that situation. They invested time and money on building the tech so they can just warp-in storms. They don't FORGET to get them, they just choose not to until the right time to warp them in. And if a Terran player forgets to make ghosts after seeing HTs then that's just retarded. Why is everyone in this thread saying that preparation = preparation? If Protoss can w8 until last seconds to decide what exactly he see and what is best way to counter it, it is equal to Terran who requires most likely 60-90 seconds to do so? And does it require same skills, understanding game and experiences? Then why not just make everything to have build time 0 seconds, and all players will have to do is teching and then lets see who can therycraft better to make exactly units to counter enemy who lost his patience first? Maybe it would be almost as much interesting as having only 1 race in SC2.
Did you seriously just make that argument?
Protoss can wait until the last second against Banshees, right? WRONG. You have to scout for banshees, and make an observer in advance. If you build a robo right when the banshee hits you'll either lose 20 probes and play the game of your life to win, or just lose outright.
Terran can wait unit the last second against DTs, right? Yep. They can scan.
The mechanic with HTs and Ghosts is the opposite. It also is a horrible comparison, as HT tech takes a very long time in comparison to ghost tech. HT tech takes anywhere between 160 seconds (with constant chrono on storm research) and 210 seconds, whereas ghost tech takes like 110 seconds.
Thus, if you scout a twilight council you can just put down a ghost academy and at most you'll be 10-15 seconds behind. If you scout an archive while storm is researching you can then build a bunch of ghosts, and by the time they come out you'll have several ghosts and he'll only have just finished storm. He has to research khaydarin (and you can have moebius done well before) and by that time you can easily have 4-5 ghosts out, probably with one or two with multiple EMPs saved up.
EDIT: It's also far cheaper from a monetary perspective. Ghosts faster, stronger, and the tech only breaks even after you both make 3-5 ghosts and 3-5 templar, roughly. The versatility of both units is roughly equivalent; both are capable of nullifying casters and dealing significant damage. Ghosts are better in bigger engagements, however, particularly when coupled with tanks and/or stim. And this is coming from a random player, btw.
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I'm actually sick of the "you need to get observers, or you'll die to banshees" argument, whether related to this thread or not.
Is there any reason you would not want to get an observer? Constant scouting on your opponents tech and army, what is there not to like?
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On March 10 2011 12:46 Dalavita wrote:
I'm actually sick of the "you need to get observers, or you'll die to banshees" argument, whether related to this thread or not.
Is there any reason you would not want to get an observer? Constant scouting on your opponents tech and army, what is there not to like?
the main thing when it comes to observers is that it takes time to build observers in the robo bay, thats time that could be going into immortals or colossus. I do agree with you though that they should be a staple for protoss play for the amount of information that they give but you still need something other than gateway units to fight the other player's army as well
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I simply think that by taking out the amulet upgrade, Protoss players will adapt, but they will adapt by not ever building high templars any more. It is just too risky to get them emp'ed then getting rofl rolled by a terran infantry/medivac ball. With amulet, you warp in new ones assuming you have a pylon in position, so the risk is lessened, but with the upgrade removed, collossi will be a much more stable and safe path to take. If high templars come at all, they will be come long after the player has buillt up a good number of collossi.
Just my opinion.
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On March 10 2011 12:46 Dalavita wrote:
I'm actually sick of the "you need to get observers, or you'll die to banshees" argument, whether related to this thread or not.
Is there any reason you would not want to get an observer? Constant scouting on your opponents tech and army, what is there not to like?
Its not that we don't want the observer, its that getting the observer makes it much more difficult to tech to anything other than a colossus. Unlike terran tech, the protoss tech tree is not (essentially) linear. One tech path does not naturally lead to the next, instead we have to choose, templar, robo or stargate. Choosing one will naturally delay the others, sometimes for a significant amount of time. For a gas heavy army like protoss tend to be (stalkers+sentries are a HUGE gas investment), 175+ gas for the robo and 1+ observers is no small thing.
Another way of thinking about it: If you're going thor tech, why wouldn't you want banshees too? A cloaked harassment unit that does crazy DPS, what's not to like? Well, for one thing, getting that tech is costly and will drastically reduce the size of the rest of your army.
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I bet this wont make it through to live though. Its such a powerful and needed upgrade to keep Hts viable. If it does make it through be prepared for even more Colossi based strats O.o
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On March 10 2011 12:46 Dalavita wrote:
I'm actually sick of the "you need to get observers, or you'll die to banshees" argument, whether related to this thread or not.
Is there any reason you would not want to get an observer? Constant scouting on your opponents tech and army, what is there not to like?
I'm actually sick of the "you need to get ghosts, or you'll die to HTs" argument, too. You don't need ghosts, and according to 90% of the Terrans in this thread it's a huge disadvantage that can't be overcome without taking out KA because asymmetries among races are bad and we should just eliminate all the differences.
I mean, why would you not want a ghost against Protoss? Constant EMPs and no shields on your opponent's army, what is there not to like?
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EDIT: In all seriousness though, I don't understand what the big deal about khaydarin is. It costs money to warp in those storms, and you still have plenty of ways to nullify them. With the broodwar to SC2 storm nerf, it's an incredible thing that bio is actually viable against Protoss. Instead, Terrans are still complaining about this.
I don't hear many Zerg players complaining that warp-in storms are too powerful. ( This is probably because they aren't. ) In fact, the only balancing problems with Protoss are likely voidray/colossus and warp-in, not HTs or khaydarin.
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I love how you mentioned that warp in is a huge factor in terms of positioning where your HT are on the map compared to the Infestor that spawns at the hatchery. Remember that Infestors can escape via Burrow and Ghosts can cloak. HT's can leave a nice visual trail effect when they move ^^
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On March 10 2011 13:22 Hyren82 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 12:46 Dalavita wrote:
I'm actually sick of the "you need to get observers, or you'll die to banshees" argument, whether related to this thread or not.
Is there any reason you would not want to get an observer? Constant scouting on your opponents tech and army, what is there not to like? Its not that we don't want the observer, its that getting the observer makes it much more difficult to tech to anything other than a colossus. Unlike terran tech, the protoss tech tree is not (essentially) linear. One tech path does not naturally lead to the next, instead we have to choose, templar, robo or stargate. Choosing one will naturally delay the others, sometimes for a significant amount of time. For a gas heavy army like protoss tend to be (stalkers+sentries are a HUGE gas investment), 175+ gas for the robo and 1+ observers is no small thing. Another way of thinking about it: If you're going thor tech, why wouldn't you want banshees too? A cloaked harassment unit that does crazy DPS, what's not to like? Well, for one thing, getting that tech is costly and will drastically reduce the size of the rest of your army.
I know fully well how the protoss tech tree works. My point is that the observer is good enough that it justifies any delay to the tech if any form of macro game is your goal.
On March 10 2011 13:35 wherebugsgo wrote:I'm actually sick of the "you need to get ghosts, or you'll die to HTs" argument, too. You don't need ghosts, and according to 90% of the Terrans in this thread it's a huge disadvantage that can't be overcome without taking out KA because asymmetries among races are bad and we should just eliminate all the differences.
I mean, why would you not want a ghost against Protoss? Constant EMPs and no shields on your opponent's army, what is there not to like?
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EDIT: In all seriousness though, I don't understand what the big deal about khaydarin is. It costs money to warp in those storms, and you still have plenty of ways to nullify them. With the broodwar to SC2 storm nerf, it's an incredible thing that bio is actually viable against Protoss. Instead, Terrans are still complaining about this.
I don't hear many Zerg players complaining that warp-in storms are too powerful. ( This is probably because they aren't. ) In fact, the only balancing problems with Protoss are likely voidray/colossus and warp-in, not HTs or khaydarin.
The problem with amulet comes in the absolute endgame where you're both on 4+ bases and floating gas and minerals because you've reached the max.
If the terran ends up winning an army battle, he'll have an army capable of doing a lot of damage, but it'll be hurt. The same army will get obliterated by three instantaneous HT warpin storms from one of the 10+ gateways, from any random high ground position or hidden spot or pylon on the map, making it absurdly hard to take advantage of your victory and push a base down, as if killing a maxed out protoss army wasn't hard enough 
It doesn't take much thought or strategy the way the HT amulets work right now. You just warp them in when you need them, no planning or anything.
Also, zerg don't complain as much about amulet because roaches can tank it by burrowing.
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On March 10 2011 14:02 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 13:22 Hyren82 wrote:On March 10 2011 12:46 Dalavita wrote:
I'm actually sick of the "you need to get observers, or you'll die to banshees" argument, whether related to this thread or not.
Is there any reason you would not want to get an observer? Constant scouting on your opponents tech and army, what is there not to like? Its not that we don't want the observer, its that getting the observer makes it much more difficult to tech to anything other than a colossus. Unlike terran tech, the protoss tech tree is not (essentially) linear. One tech path does not naturally lead to the next, instead we have to choose, templar, robo or stargate. Choosing one will naturally delay the others, sometimes for a significant amount of time. For a gas heavy army like protoss tend to be (stalkers+sentries are a HUGE gas investment), 175+ gas for the robo and 1+ observers is no small thing. Another way of thinking about it: If you're going thor tech, why wouldn't you want banshees too? A cloaked harassment unit that does crazy DPS, what's not to like? Well, for one thing, getting that tech is costly and will drastically reduce the size of the rest of your army. I know fully well how the protoss tech tree works. My point is that the observer is good enough that it justifies any delay to the tech if any form of macro game is your goal. Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 13:35 wherebugsgo wrote:I'm actually sick of the "you need to get ghosts, or you'll die to HTs" argument, too. You don't need ghosts, and according to 90% of the Terrans in this thread it's a huge disadvantage that can't be overcome without taking out KA because asymmetries among races are bad and we should just eliminate all the differences.
I mean, why would you not want a ghost against Protoss? Constant EMPs and no shields on your opponent's army, what is there not to like?
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EDIT: In all seriousness though, I don't understand what the big deal about khaydarin is. It costs money to warp in those storms, and you still have plenty of ways to nullify them. With the broodwar to SC2 storm nerf, it's an incredible thing that bio is actually viable against Protoss. Instead, Terrans are still complaining about this.
I don't hear many Zerg players complaining that warp-in storms are too powerful. ( This is probably because they aren't. ) In fact, the only balancing problems with Protoss are likely voidray/colossus and warp-in, not HTs or khaydarin. The problem with amulet comes in the absolute endgame where you're both on 4+ bases and floating gas and minerals because you've reached the max. If the terran ends up winning an army battle, he'll have an army capable of doing a lot of damage, but it'll be hurt. The same army will get obliterated by three instantaneous HT warpin storms from one of the 10+ gateways, from any random high ground position or hidden spot or pylon on the map, making it absurdly hard to take advantage of your victory and push a base down, as if killing a maxed out protoss army wasn't hard enough It doesn't take much thought or strategy the way the HT amulets work right now. You just warp them in when you need them, no planning or anything. Also, zerg don't complain as much about amulet because roaches can tank it by burrowing.
Basing a change on 1 part of the game, that in most cases, is the rarest occurrence is absolutely non-sense, and you're probably wrong also. Terran have bunkers and seige tanks that WAY MORE OFTEN than High Templar stall Protoss or Zerg pushes after T loses their army. Hell, most good Terrans just leave seiged tanks and bunkers at home while they push, just in case a counter or they lose the fight. How is having High Templar not fair with that? High Templar are much harder to get than seiged tanks, and usually die after being warped in to defend. 1-2 storms for all that gas? Sometimes its worth it, usually not really. It's just enough to make the Terran think twice.
It doesn't take much thought or planning because of how KA works? The same logic can be applied to Moebius reactor upgrade. It takes double the thought and planning to know if the Templar Archives is worth getting, along with 2 more upgrades and a shit ton of gas on HTs, it takes thought and planning to know if that HT your going to warp in is going to even do enough damage, or that it will stall enough for your army, etc.
Seriously, terrible argument. Roaches aren't bothered cause they can heal through it in burrow? Did you forget about Medivacs and using click to move out of the 4 second storm? Let alone the fact that Storms don't hit units inside buildings, you can just pick up your units in a medivac if it has full hp.
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On March 10 2011 14:12 v3chr0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 14:02 Dalavita wrote:On March 10 2011 13:22 Hyren82 wrote:On March 10 2011 12:46 Dalavita wrote:
I'm actually sick of the "you need to get observers, or you'll die to banshees" argument, whether related to this thread or not.
Is there any reason you would not want to get an observer? Constant scouting on your opponents tech and army, what is there not to like? Its not that we don't want the observer, its that getting the observer makes it much more difficult to tech to anything other than a colossus. Unlike terran tech, the protoss tech tree is not (essentially) linear. One tech path does not naturally lead to the next, instead we have to choose, templar, robo or stargate. Choosing one will naturally delay the others, sometimes for a significant amount of time. For a gas heavy army like protoss tend to be (stalkers+sentries are a HUGE gas investment), 175+ gas for the robo and 1+ observers is no small thing. Another way of thinking about it: If you're going thor tech, why wouldn't you want banshees too? A cloaked harassment unit that does crazy DPS, what's not to like? Well, for one thing, getting that tech is costly and will drastically reduce the size of the rest of your army. I know fully well how the protoss tech tree works. My point is that the observer is good enough that it justifies any delay to the tech if any form of macro game is your goal. On March 10 2011 13:35 wherebugsgo wrote:I'm actually sick of the "you need to get ghosts, or you'll die to HTs" argument, too. You don't need ghosts, and according to 90% of the Terrans in this thread it's a huge disadvantage that can't be overcome without taking out KA because asymmetries among races are bad and we should just eliminate all the differences.
I mean, why would you not want a ghost against Protoss? Constant EMPs and no shields on your opponent's army, what is there not to like?
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EDIT: In all seriousness though, I don't understand what the big deal about khaydarin is. It costs money to warp in those storms, and you still have plenty of ways to nullify them. With the broodwar to SC2 storm nerf, it's an incredible thing that bio is actually viable against Protoss. Instead, Terrans are still complaining about this.
I don't hear many Zerg players complaining that warp-in storms are too powerful. ( This is probably because they aren't. ) In fact, the only balancing problems with Protoss are likely voidray/colossus and warp-in, not HTs or khaydarin. The problem with amulet comes in the absolute endgame where you're both on 4+ bases and floating gas and minerals because you've reached the max. If the terran ends up winning an army battle, he'll have an army capable of doing a lot of damage, but it'll be hurt. The same army will get obliterated by three instantaneous HT warpin storms from one of the 10+ gateways, from any random high ground position or hidden spot or pylon on the map, making it absurdly hard to take advantage of your victory and push a base down, as if killing a maxed out protoss army wasn't hard enough It doesn't take much thought or strategy the way the HT amulets work right now. You just warp them in when you need them, no planning or anything. Also, zerg don't complain as much about amulet because roaches can tank it by burrowing. Basing a change on 1 part of the game, that in most cases, is the rarest occurrence is absolutely non-sense, and you're probably wrong also. Terran have bunkers and seige tanks that WAY MORE OFTEN than High Templar stall Protoss or Zerg pushes after T loses their army. Hell, most good Terrans just leave seiged tanks and bunkers at home while they push, just in case a counter or they lose the fight. How is having High Templar not fair with that? High Templar are much harder to get than seiged tanks, and usually die after being warped in to defend. 1-2 storms for all that gas? Sometimes its worth it, usually not really. It's just enough to make the Terran think twice. It doesn't take much thought or planning because of how KA works? The same logic can be applied to Moebius reactor upgrade. It takes thought and planning to know if the Templar Archives is worth it, it takes thought and planning to know if that HT your going to warp in is going to even do enough damage. Seriously, terrible argument. Roaches aren't bothered cause they can burrow? Did you forget about Medivacs and using click to move out of the 4 second storm? Let alone the fact that Storms don't hit units inside buildings, you can just pick up your units in a medivac if it has full hp.
Wow at the amount of garbage you just posted.
First of all, the "1 part of the game" part of your post, is pretty much the only time that templars with amulet are ever used, "and you're probably wrong also." Brilliant...
Terrans got bunkers and siege tanks in base when they push out? Since when do they waste a chunk of their army when they're about to push, because there's a change they'll lose? They'll definitively lose the battle if they got a bunker filled with marines and 1+ siege tanks for every base they've left behind...
Second, having a bunker and siege tanks in every single one of your base is actually the very definition of preemptive planning, even though no terran does that (very few terran get tanks to begin with in TvP.)
You do it before you know that you need them, because you assume or calculate that you need them, whereas amulet templars are more of a "oh shit I lost my army, warp in x templars where he's pushing" No planning or losses to your main army.
1-2 storms for all that gas is ALWAYS worth it if it finishes off a wounded terran army.
And about the roaches. Did you not read me saying that the strength of the warpin templar is to finish off a WOUNDED TERRAN ARMY THAT CAN STILL DO DAMAGE.
After a battle, the following has happened with medivacs. They're either dead, or they're fully out of energy. And moving out of the first storm is fine, it's when a second storm gets thrown in your face, and a third one following that, when you lose your 40 food army to 3 templars that were warped in 5 seconds ago.
This means that they'll heal for fuckall, and likely die to the storms themselves.
Also, moebius reactor, really?...
And getting the templar archives is always worth it in TvP. The question is when can you get away with it, just like getting ghosts is eventually crucial in TvP, and you do it when you can afford to.
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First of all, the "1 part of the game" part of your post, is pretty much the only time that templars with amulet are ever used, "and you're probably wrong also." Brilliant...
Wrong. Templars are used from 10-15 minutes onward, usually with, or without Collosus support. So, 2base+, thats not late game.
Terrans got bunkers and siege tanks in base when they push out? Since when do they waste a chunk of their army when they're about to push, because there's a change they'll lose? They'll definitively lose the battle if they got a bunker filled with marines and 1+ siege tanks for every base they've left behind...
You obviously don't watch the GSL. Terrans leave bunkers and seiged tanks to defend while they pressure and push all the time, in fact, if a Terran doesn't vs. an aggressive Zerg or Toss they have a flat out chance of losing. Full bunkers or not, they are there for scare tactics.
No one said have a bunker and seige tanks in every one of your expos, stop making stuff up. And if very few Terran go tank vs. P thats not really anybodies fault but theirs... Tanks are great, especially versus Protoss.
Nobody said the 1-2 storms are for finishing an army, of course thatd be worth it. general purpose instant storming doesn't always kill armies, and if it does, then its the 50% of the time it was worth it to warp in the HT anyway.
Why are your medivacs dead after a fight, thats probably your fault, not anything about the medivacs? They regain energy enough to heal quite frequently, having 4+ medivacs out of energy still maintains a minimal amount of healing to your army. Bio is dispensable, it's supposed to die to AoE, thats why bio is so massable, you can recreate it quite quick, especially in your example of being 4 base v 4.
Templars are slow, if your retreating with stim and you get stormed 3 more times, you're either running in the wrong direction or you like to be nice and close to the Protoss army.
And as far as Templar always being worth it vs Terran, I think you're confused with Ghosts and TvP. High Templar are situational, you don't get them all the time. Ghosts you get vs. Protoss all the time, their always worth it.
Regardless, a really high tech unit, that costs a ton of gas, should kill/injure massable T1/1.5 units. They are marines and marauders, not a bunch of immortals and collosus. Tech units should be equivalent in efficiency to massable T1 units. Its the way it works.
If anything KA/High Templars are most effective early/mid game, when it can do the same dmg, but the opponent can't replace or heal it fast enough.
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On March 10 2011 11:57 Hyren82 wrote:
Its been stated on this thread before, but let me rephrase to make things very clear why I believe the KA (or something similar) is necessary for templars
One thing I think the zerg/terran players here don't seem to realize:
They all say "oh, its just 44 seconds, it puts them on even footing with our casters!", but they don't think about how much more survivable the ghost and infestor actually are
I have to disagree. HT might be slow, but they're small and visually they fit into a protoss army a lot better than the giant target painted slug that is the infestor, plus they're just physically harder to click on. The infestor is a giant hitbox, combined with the fact that it currently has 90hp (I know it's getting buffed) and it has a massive target priority... I just don't think you can argue that the infestor is more 'survivable' than HT.
I think the vulnerability of infestors is why we don't see more of them in high level play. (slightly off topic? Sorry!)
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You're an idiot. All races have their +starting energy ups, why shouldnt toss get heirs?
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On March 10 2011 14:38 HughJorgen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 11:57 Hyren82 wrote:
Its been stated on this thread before, but let me rephrase to make things very clear why I believe the KA (or something similar) is necessary for templars
One thing I think the zerg/terran players here don't seem to realize:
They all say "oh, its just 44 seconds, it puts them on even footing with our casters!", but they don't think about how much more survivable the ghost and infestor actually are
I have to disagree. HT might be slow, but they're small and visually they fit into a protoss army a lot better than the giant target painted slug that is the infestor, plus they're just physically harder to click on. The infestor is a giant hitbox, combined with the fact that it currently has 90hp (I know it's getting buffed) and it has a massive target priority... I just don't think you can argue that the infestor is more 'survivable' than HT. I think the vulnerability of infestors is why we don't see more of them in high level play. (slightly off topic? Sorry!)
Then again, Protoss HT are a LOT slower than even the immobile deathball. If we lose a fight with the HT in the ball, they're dead. There is no way they'll be able to walk away. For Zerg, your army is faster than anything but stalkers. They will be escaping if you choose to retreat. Even Ghosts are as fast as anything but Stalkers, and with scan or good/lucky EMP cloak becomes a lot more viable for retreat.
With this change, what we have is essentially a Protoss unit that is vulnerable for 50 seconds (to anything that can snipe it) that has to slowly walk to battle, then has a single shot at casting a storm before it gets Archoned. I'd consider saving them more, but they're just too easy to kill.
After this change, they will be usable - we'll just have to give them luxury warp-prism cruisers to carry them everywhere, unload them after the EMPs and hope to storm before the bioball crushes everything else. And we'll have to hope that Terran forgets how to drop, as we'll need a much larger army guarding all our mineral lines to fight it off.
Oh, and just for the hell of it - HT have 40 health and 40 shield, so they die even faster than Infestors, if it's possible. That distinctive blue glow is basically a neon sign saying "EMP HERE!!! NOW!!!"
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With this change it makes sense to allow archons to "unmeld" and for the templars to regen energy while in archon state. That way they are not a useless, vulnerable unit for 90% of their lives.
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On March 10 2011 15:16 cLutZ wrote:
With this change it makes sense to allow archons to "unmeld" and for the templars to regen energy while in archon state. That way they are not a useless, vulnerable unit for 90% of their lives.
One of the better ideas coming out of this thread. I think that would be a decent compromise should they choose to remove KA. Something definitely has to replace it if they get rid of it.
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I'm really sick of protoss who whine about needing observers when they can send in three DT's and have completely defeated the terran's detection without a complete side-track of ebay-turret (which the DT can harass as it builds) or a raven (extremely expensive and high in the tech tree)
It's all balanced, as far as our gaming abilities are concerned. Seriously. Stop complaining about balance and start learning to play better. If you aren't in masters, and other people are, you need to just work on your own game rather than argue about dictating how it should be changed.
That's just my .02 on the matter. I beat protoss with all the tech by simply outplaying them with MMM and no ghosts or even vikings.
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On March 10 2011 15:48 Honeybadger wrote:
That's just my .02 on the matter. I beat protoss with all the tech by simply outplaying them with MMM and no ghosts or even vikings.
qft
User was warned for this post
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|
|
EPT
