A Bit of Simple Khaydarin Amulet Math - Page 6

On February 26 2011 22:11 Crashburn wrote:


Don't mass tier 1 and expect it to hold up against protoss tier 3, which takes an incredible amount of time and resources to get to. For the difficulty of getting there, storm was perfectly fine.

Storm only looked OP because terrans didn't -- and some still don't -- know how to do anything else but spam MMM.

The worst part about this nerf is that it promotes more colossi play, which is the real problem. If I have to mass colossi every game, I'm just not going to bother playing because colossi are incredibly boring units and they're not fun to use anymore. Plus, with the nerf, terran can just blindly mass MMM and sprinkle in reactor'd vikings and win.

The most effective strategy I can see with the removal of amulet are one-base colossi timing pushes vs. T. lol, blizz

On February 26 2011 22:23 Apolo wrote:


Yes because everything casters say is gold, and truth. They should be playing, because they know so much about the game they could win the players themselves. /s

As for the 2nd part of the post. Yes let protoss leave amounts of their army scattered around the base, so that when terrans decide reunite their troops and go for a big push, the toss's army is smaller. Not to mention the toss can't guess if the terran decides to drop with 1 medivac 2 or more.

The problem is always that a lot of terrans can't be bothered to go mech, since bio is easier to play and as effective until protoss have decent splash damage, designed precisely to counter mass tier 1 units. Then a lot start complaining because suddenly their army is being countered as it should, and they can't have free reign over the toss's base, and snipe colossus bay in 5s pop in the medivac and go away without loses, or that forge that had an upgrade about to finish. Protoss don't have the luxury of that good harass, since terran have great defenses already. One missile turret, and no more warp prisms will adventure that way, or dt's. One planetary fortress, and no melee harass. What does protoss have? HT with the amulet, all the rest except a lot of blink stalkers always in the base to kill drops before they land, suck. I seriously think a lot of you guys are too spoiled because of all the early advantage and seem to want it not only early but throughout the game.

That's another thing that might get some terrans complaining is the shift in power. Terran has always been seen as stronger early game. So suddenly, when that disappears and things get more even, it's easy to mistake that for "they got too strong". No, now you're equal, and this is how it feels to have to make an effort equal to the other player to win.

On February 26 2011 22:28 teamamerica wrote:


I don't mass MM expecting to win a straight up fight against a Templar based army (unless I have alot of ghosts with gosu emps and vikings to counter your collusi, along with a good amount of medivacs and upgrades). I expect to be able to drop 1400 resources worth of units in your base though, and have them do SOME damage if you didn't notice the drop at all (8marauder + 2 medivac).

Collusi play always was integral. If the Terran is really dedicating himself to a bio push, I think it's fair you should produce collusi (or be like NoNy and be gosu with double forge). I don't expect to hold off a mass gateway push + alot of forcefield without bio in the midgame. You react to what your opponent does - that's SC. If I was going straight for my mech army, you could probably go straight for temps too if you wished.

Late game upgraded MMM+ghost should be decent against mass gateway + templar if you get good EMP's. Then it becomes battle of EMP, forcefield, unit positioning, feedback. That's why collusi + temps are mixed - it forces both vikings and ghosts, and overall just makes it more fun watching the players try to balance all appropriate units. Collusi micro versus vikings is good stuff anyway, trying to snipe a few before you engage.

And to be honest, what is your ideal army without collusi? Pure gateway units (which besides templar are all tier one). Why should your tier one + templars rape my tier one + ghosts and medivacs, to the point that I feel you're saying my MMMG shouldn't even be viable late game.

Just my thoughts on the matter. We'll see how it actually plays out if patch goes retail.

On February 26 2011 22:35 ilikeLIONZ wrote:
they removed the kaydarian amulet but the emp still doesn't need to be researched and does INSTANT damage compared to the so overpowered storm? the matchup will be pretty screwed, as you have to rely even more on the colossus now, so the terran can go for vikings blindly which shouldnt be the case, right?
i also don't see a good and reasonable way to deal with a double marauder drop now, when the terran is abusing his army's mobility to the maximum. in combination with the bigger maps this is gonna be mortal for protoss as marauders take down buildings in no time.. shall we build 8 canons per expo now, just to deal with a possible marauder drop? i'm confused, really.. the templar was the only effective way to deal with it!
all i hope is that they don't keep the balance changes as they are now, i wish i could test them instead of theory crafting..

just copied and pasted my post from the PTR thread after i read this thread. i think it fits here a lot better!

On February 26 2011 22:42 andrewwiggin wrote:


lol you never saw ghost emps totally decimating protoss armies.

HTs on the other hand..

On February 26 2011 22:42 andrewwiggin wrote:


lol you never saw ghost emps totally decimating protoss armies.

HTs on the other hand..

On February 26 2011 22:54 ilikeLIONZ wrote:


you can't be serious here, sorry..

drooL i agree, there must be something that evens it out a bit..

On February 26 2011 15:58 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I think this change is gonna be too big, P needs at least the old BW upgrade back (+50 mana, starts with 63 mana instead of 50).

With HTs starting at 50, its like you cant even warp them in in advance vs units in the middle of the map. Its a bit extreme that you can just warp them in as you spot the dropship unloading in your base, but they need something.

On February 26 2011 23:13 KingAce wrote:
Terran drops are the most powerful drops in the game.If your army isn't home, HTs with the amulet were the most efficient way of dealing with these drops. MMM drops can level a base very quickly, nothing in the protoss army aside from storm can deal with them cost effectively. The removal of the upgrade is bad, it would make sense if storms were actually very powerful, but they're not, Storms aren't powerful at all. With the amulet they seemed powerful because 5 HT + Warp in = 5 insta storms, but that's still 5 HTs.

In BW Storms were very powerful, this nerf makes sense only if storms do the damage to justify it, which they don't.

I have seen HT before colossus builds against MMM. And these builds aren't as effective as going colossus first. And the reason is, if you get EMPed that's 5 HTs that could have been actual attack units, or if your storms miss, then you have 5 useless units taking up food in your army. That's why colossus was and is still the stronger option. The amulet was a bit insane with warp in, but it made sense in that storms are weaker but come in numbers.

It's not our fault Terrans keep going bio all the way to late game. The nerf isn't well thought out at all.

If we're going back to the old BW HTs, that have to build up their storm energy, can we get a buff to storm damage to justify it? Otherwise, colossus first then eventually templar tech every time.

And archon toilet gets removed.

On February 26 2011 19:27 Maskedsatyr wrote:
How are toss going to deal with drops in late game now? 2 dropships worth of units will be able to own almost any amount of warped in units without HTs. Its going to be impossible to defend multipronged attacks on 4-5 bases unless you expect us to camp a colo at each outlaying base.

In addition the speed of the HTs make it impossible to really attack now even if you win an engagement unless you completely crush it as terran reinforcements are usually enough to kill gateway armies without support. The only way HTs are going to be viable now is through warp prisms I imagine, warping them in at a corner and ferrying them around. This might be the evolution but I don't really see it happening with vikings having such range.

HTs definitely needed a nerf but I feel this is too big of a nerf, makes HTs completely useless.

On February 26 2011 23:24 danielsan wrote:

Protoss is the arcade race when it comes to dealing with drops, and you still complain. You can literally summon units wherever the drop occurs, you can still 1 shot medivacs with feedback but you still feel it's impossible.

I suggest you change the game maybe.