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modedit: renamed thread as appropriate. Pro panel includes: ROOTCatZ, EGAxslav, EGStrifeCro, FnaticMSIGretorp, FXOSheth
IF YOU MISSED IT HERE'S THE LINK TO OUR FULL REVIEW OF THE PATCH AND MAPS:
http://www.justin.tv/rootcatz/b/280412952
I'll be doing a review on the new ladder maps and first thoughts about them.
I'll try to adress every matchup for Zerg and perhaps go into other matchups shortly.
I'll try to make the videos available on YouTube for Reference. Please know that these maps are as new to me as they are to everyone else, but i'll do my best to address their individual features and how I think they will affect gameplay.
It'll take place tonight (Friday, February 25th at 10PMEST) on my stream.
www.justin.tv/rootcatz
MAPS TO BE REVIEWED:
-Backwater Gulch
-Slag Pits
-The Shattered Temple
-Typhon Peaks
Looking forward to it, see you there hopefully.
ROOTCatZ
*Update* FXOSheth will be joining me for the review
*Update* EGStrifeCro will be joining us for the review
*Update* FnaticMsiGretorp will be joining us for the review
*Update* EGAxslav will be joining us for the review
*Update* We'll be talking and discussing the patch as well
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Definitely can't wait to hear from a pro's perspective of the new maps. Definitely going to be tuning in. Thanks for doing this!
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o thats nice thanks catz. Should be very interesting.
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Nice Catz, I will tune in for sure !
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Cool. It will be neat to hear your first thoughts on these maps.
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kinda late for us europeans but i'll be sure to make an effort and stay awake to watch  , great effort to raise awareness on the maps :D, thx a lot catz
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Sweet. I'm looking forward to some pro opinions.
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Thanks. I wanna hear what you have to say, and also I need to think about the maps a little more before I complain lol
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Very awesome, thanks for this. I'll be interested to see how your analyses will compare to my own (ie, how completely off-base I am :D ).
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Can't wait, going to be tuning in.
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Yay! I'll be there, I'm excited to hear what ya have to say.
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Typhon Peaks is so weird, if you open up 3gate expo with 1stargate into 1VR and 1Pheonix, you can actually deny the Zerg from getting a third before you, just because they can't actually get a queen to any of them fast enough to defend them, but then Toss is fucked when they want to take a 4th 
Can you get one of the Root guys (like Minigun) to do a Protoss version?
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awesome stuff catz, hope you include some singing aswell.
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Very sweet, glad to hear something from a pro, and especially a Zerg one at that! I'll definitely be tuning in
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CatZ, the patch changes (possibly) will be posted tonight as well. Will you provide speculation on them?
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Definitely going to be watching this tonight.
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Please stop cussing, u scare me off your stream sometimes, just keep it decent. Please.
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Great stuff CatZ, but I get the feeling none of us Zergs are going to like what we uncover.
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I can't imagine most zergs being happy with these maps
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*Sheth will be joining me for the review
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cool beans, totally checking it out
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Canada13397 Posts
I want to but I'm watching a movie with my girlfriend. Will you be saving the vod to your jtv account at least?
On a side now thanks catz you do an awesome job contributing. perhaps you can get mini gun to do a protoss perspective and drewbie or qxc for a terran perspective and make the videos a ROOT special presentation if you don't go into a protoss our terran perspective yourself tonight.
Looking forward to the vods :D
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On February 26 2011 10:29 CatZ.root wrote:
*Sheth will be joining me for the review
cant wait! i love watching you stream, catz. you are the most entertaining streamer, imo. would love to hear your opinions on the new maps.
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Awesome, definitely will watch.
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Love watching your stream Catz. You are awesome
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So we're going to tune in to Catz facepalming for 15 minutes? Sounds exciting .
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*Update* EGStrifeCro will be joining us for the review
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United States2095 Posts
I can't wait !!! Thanks CatZ for including me on this! I absolutely can't wait! <3 !
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Israel2209 Posts
Thanks a lot CATZ! Can't wait, hopefully with some singing ofcourse 
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Perhaps also discuss the latest changes in Patch 1.3 which has been added to the ptr?
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I'll check the VODs in the morning. Thanks in advance Catz :D
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Awesome that high level players are going straight into looking at the new maps :D I'm definitely tuning in.
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Even though im terran it will be nice to hear what a high level player has to say about the maps.
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*Update* FnaticMsiGretorp will be joining us for the review
*Update* We'll be talking and discussing the patch as well
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Holy hell this is a stacked line up. Super excited. CatZ analysing!
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Definitely tuning in, ive already heard a lot of bad about the maps already and looking forward to some pro opinions.
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aww sweet. Nice cast of people
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<3 Catz, thank you for doing this.
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ooh thats not long from now... i think :O
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Can we please see a FE (not necessarily hatch first) 4 gate defense on backwater gulch...It appears to be mostly impossible (read: EXTREMELY DIFFICULT) with how far the natural is from the ramp.
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instant awesome.
Im with you even it is already 4am here
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theres some feedback going on in the cast, wasn't like that before
I'm hearing everyone's voices double up, except yours, catz.
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Ridiculous amounts of feedback/static/robot voice going on. Completely unwatchable right now : (
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On February 26 2011 13:28 gobrin wrote:
Ridiculous amounts of feedback/static/robot voice going on. Completely unwatchable right now : (
I think people use completely unwatchable too much on TL. maybe lag but casting/audio/video quality i'll sit through most shit. + Show Spoiler +Assembly was kind awkward to watch tho
Thanks Catz for the stream. Awesome crew and commentary!
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hope you guys enjoyed, thanks all for watching
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Thanks catz. To sum up, catz and some of the other pros thought that the maps forced terran and protoss to go with one or possibly two based play because of the hard to defend expos, most maps will be zerg favored late game with large amount of attack paths and lack of good choke points. I think the consensus was that they didn't like them.
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Cool def. gonna watch. need to know which maps arent good/are good for zerg players like the myself. thanks for doing this.
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Am I the only person who thinks they missed the boat totally on the Fungal change?
DId you consider that they nerfed the stun duration and left the DPS what it is now?
So no crazy kill FG, just a short stun with no compensation, a flat-out nerf.
There is nothing in patch notes about the fungal's duration being reduced, JUST the stun length.
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On February 27 2011 01:01 DaemonX wrote:
Am I the only person who thinks they missed the boat totally on the Fungal change?
DId you consider that they nerfed the stun duration and left the DPS what it is now?
So no crazy kill FG, just a short stun with no compensation, a flat-out nerf.
There is nothing in patch notes about the fungal's duration being reduced, JUST the stun length.
This is what I thought when I first saw the patch too. I thought they would still take damage over the normal time just be removed from stun earlier? I guess it needs clarification.
Either way I still really enjoyed the cast and thanks for putting this together.
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Cool to see a group of pros deliver an unbiased and knowledgable report on not only all the maps and how they affect various races but the balance changes as well, not just the usual crying omg zerg is so up wawawawa that you see often around here in response to the patches/maps.
So the balance changes are mostly decent, but the maps are apparently bad, but bad for everyone and offer one dimensional play..that's what I got from this review!
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On February 27 2011 01:01 DaemonX wrote:
Am I the only person who thinks they missed the boat totally on the Fungal change?
DId you consider that they nerfed the stun duration and left the DPS what it is now?
So no crazy kill FG, just a short stun with no compensation, a flat-out nerf.
There is nothing in patch notes about the fungal's duration being reduced, JUST the stun length.
Listening to the VOD, their understanding of the change is that duration was cut in half and DPS basically doubled. (Same damage, but over 4 seconds instead of 8 seconds)
That is how I understand the change as well. Maybe you missed the boat on their analysis?
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On February 27 2011 05:28 Thrax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 01:01 DaemonX wrote:
Am I the only person who thinks they missed the boat totally on the Fungal change?
DId you consider that they nerfed the stun duration and left the DPS what it is now?
So no crazy kill FG, just a short stun with no compensation, a flat-out nerf.
There is nothing in patch notes about the fungal's duration being reduced, JUST the stun length. Listening to the VOD, their understanding of the change is that duration was cut in half and DPS basically doubled. (Same damage, but over 4 seconds instead of 8 seconds) That is how I understand the change as well. Maybe you missed the boat on their analysis?
Erm, no, as I made clear in my post, I understand what they think it means...I am saying there's no evidence it means that. I think it's just Catz' brain automatically dubbing in what he would like it to mean... 
And I'd like to get his view on it as a straight up nerf.
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The crazy zerg stikes again. Thanks catz. Appreciate the content.
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On February 27 2011 09:10 DaemonX wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 05:28 Thrax wrote:On February 27 2011 01:01 DaemonX wrote:
Am I the only person who thinks they missed the boat totally on the Fungal change?
DId you consider that they nerfed the stun duration and left the DPS what it is now?
So no crazy kill FG, just a short stun with no compensation, a flat-out nerf.
There is nothing in patch notes about the fungal's duration being reduced, JUST the stun length. Listening to the VOD, their understanding of the change is that duration was cut in half and DPS basically doubled. (Same damage, but over 4 seconds instead of 8 seconds) That is how I understand the change as well. Maybe you missed the boat on their analysis? Erm, no, as I made clear in my post, I understand what they think it means...I am saying there's no evidence it means that. I think it's just Catz' brain automatically dubbing in what he would like it to mean... And I'd like to get his view on it as a straight up nerf.
Yeah I initially interpreted the Fungal change to mean:
Duration of Stun: 4 seconds, down from 8 seconds
Duration of Damage over Time: 8 seconds, no change from 8 seconds.
As in, it stuns for the first 4 seconds and continues to damage them for the next 4 seconds, while still allowing movement. I suppose we won't know for sure until the PTR comes up.
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On February 27 2011 10:40 QuothTheRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 09:10 DaemonX wrote:On February 27 2011 05:28 Thrax wrote:On February 27 2011 01:01 DaemonX wrote:
Am I the only person who thinks they missed the boat totally on the Fungal change?
DId you consider that they nerfed the stun duration and left the DPS what it is now?
So no crazy kill FG, just a short stun with no compensation, a flat-out nerf.
There is nothing in patch notes about the fungal's duration being reduced, JUST the stun length. Listening to the VOD, their understanding of the change is that duration was cut in half and DPS basically doubled. (Same damage, but over 4 seconds instead of 8 seconds) That is how I understand the change as well. Maybe you missed the boat on their analysis? Erm, no, as I made clear in my post, I understand what they think it means...I am saying there's no evidence it means that. I think it's just Catz' brain automatically dubbing in what he would like it to mean... And I'd like to get his view on it as a straight up nerf. Yeah I initially interpreted the Fungal change to mean: Duration of Stun: 4 seconds, down from 8 seconds Duration of Damage over Time: 8 seconds, no change from 8 seconds. As in, it stuns for the first 4 seconds and continues to damage them for the next 4 seconds, while still allowing movement. I suppose we won't know for sure until the PTR comes up.
Actually there was a post in the PTR thread from someone who's been testing on it. Fungal does double DPS and a +30% bonus to armored. The same thread has a video of the projectile speed as well.
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On February 27 2011 10:42 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 10:40 QuothTheRaven wrote:On February 27 2011 09:10 DaemonX wrote:On February 27 2011 05:28 Thrax wrote:On February 27 2011 01:01 DaemonX wrote:
Am I the only person who thinks they missed the boat totally on the Fungal change?
DId you consider that they nerfed the stun duration and left the DPS what it is now?
So no crazy kill FG, just a short stun with no compensation, a flat-out nerf.
There is nothing in patch notes about the fungal's duration being reduced, JUST the stun length. Listening to the VOD, their understanding of the change is that duration was cut in half and DPS basically doubled. (Same damage, but over 4 seconds instead of 8 seconds) That is how I understand the change as well. Maybe you missed the boat on their analysis? Erm, no, as I made clear in my post, I understand what they think it means...I am saying there's no evidence it means that. I think it's just Catz' brain automatically dubbing in what he would like it to mean... And I'd like to get his view on it as a straight up nerf. Yeah I initially interpreted the Fungal change to mean: Duration of Stun: 4 seconds, down from 8 seconds Duration of Damage over Time: 8 seconds, no change from 8 seconds. As in, it stuns for the first 4 seconds and continues to damage them for the next 4 seconds, while still allowing movement. I suppose we won't know for sure until the PTR comes up. Actually there was a post in the PTR thread from someone who's been testing on it. Fungal does double DPS and a +30% bonus to armored. The same thread has a video of the projectile speed as well.
Oh, well that's good to hear. I didn't know that the PTR was up already; my bad!
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Canada13397 Posts
Was great thanks for doing this :D would have loved more Protoss perspective in addition to Terran and Zerg but it was still very informative and really helpful to listen to before hopping on the ladder. :D
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big thx for doing that. sparked some different view on some balance changes and confirmed my view on the maps.
was desperatly waiting to hear some decent discussion after all the gold leaguer forum flame wars.
/edit btw what i thought about the yamato cannon discussion is that cooldown based would def be too strong but how about reducing the yamato energy cost and the battlecruisers max energy?
if yamato costs 75 out of 100 max (just rnd numbers) feedback would deal less damage and it would take less time to have another chance to actually fire it.
just a thought ~
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Big ups for CatZ for hosting and bringing in some nice discussion Haven't had a chance to see the maps, so it's cool to see it all from a pro's eye view.
Also cool to hear thoughts from StrifeCo and Axslav, I don't think I've heard them on anything in the short time I've followed SC2
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Nice review and interesting perspectives. We will see if (when) more playtime changes any one's opinions.
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EPT
