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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On October 05 2011 13:38 CaptainPlatypus wrote: Is it possible that you're very good for diamond, or he's very bad for grandmaster? It is possible hes very bad for grandmaster and that im very good for diamond... but i would imagine anybody in grandmaster would be very good in the first place | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12237 Posts
On October 05 2011 13:58 TheRabidDeer wrote: It is possible hes very bad for grandmaster and that im very good for diamond... but i would imagine anybody in grandmaster would be very good in the first place That depends. You don't get demoted from Grandmaster via your MMR falling, so it's possible that he's in the mid-to-low Master region. Some people have also paid or convinced top players to get their accounts into Grandmaster, and there's no way that the account owners can play at a GM level so weird situations like this can happen. How many points did the GM win? | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On October 05 2011 14:04 Excalibur_Z wrote: That depends. You don't get demoted from Grandmaster via your MMR falling, so it's possible that he's in the mid-to-low Master region. Some people have also paid or convinced top players to get their accounts into Grandmaster, and there's no way that the account owners can play at a GM level so weird situations like this can happen. How many points did the GM win? I lost 9, he won 18. I wouldve thought it would be bonus pool, but 4 hours prior to him beating me he won 28 and 22 points. He played and won a whole bunch prior to that by about 16 hours... so I imagine that would clear his bonus pool pretty much. His GM ranking is at the bottom, which is why I would think hes lower... but at the same time, you need to be in the top 200 at some point to get in, right? Also, his sc2ranks profile shows he joined grandmaster a month ago (or just recently, I am not sure lol) http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/2321412/CypherX Last season he was #1 in masters too. EDIT: I am guessing I may be up for a promotion to masters soon? EDIT2: My account http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/2874203/oSaVicious | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12237 Posts
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InvXXVII
Canada242 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12237 Posts
On October 05 2011 23:02 InvXXVII wrote: I have a friend who is a botter (has 2000 wins in bronze league and 7x as many losses). That means thats his mmr is absurdly low right? What if he decided to stop botting and start playing? Will he necessarily have to win 14k games in order to get out of bronze? No. Uncertainty never narrows that much. From the absolute lowest end of Bronze, in order to get promoted it usually takes from 60-100 consecutive wins, based on what I've heard from people who have done it. | ||
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Sek-Kuar
Czech Republic593 Posts
Is MMR value absolute or relative? Cuz after realms merge (for me it was Ru joining Eu) I saw Russian grandmasters being placed into diamond - how is that possible? Is system somehow capable of comparing players between realms? Id expect relative MMR value, so master players are top 2% of realm not directly compareable to other realm... On the other hand, since Ru ladder was much smaller than Eu - lets say 10% dont really know - then only 10% of top 2% of Ru ladder will be statistically considered as masters after merge, so only 0,2% Ru ladder would remain in master league after merge. However as I said I saw Ru GM in Eu diamond so even this theory seems kinda off - anyone any idea how could this work? | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12237 Posts
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Sek-Kuar
Czech Republic593 Posts
On October 09 2011 10:04 Excalibur_Z wrote: When the realms were merged, players from the smaller servers had to play their 5 placement matches again (LA, RU, TW). Like all of them? I was pretty sure I did read on b.net before merge that players will keep their MMR unless on bigger realm is player with exactly same name AND character code... I was really sure about that ^^ Well thanks then, made me little curious yesterday when it somehow got into my head. On October 06 2011 00:28 Excalibur_Z wrote: No. Uncertainty never narrows that much. From the absolute lowest end of Bronze, in order to get promoted it usually takes from 60-100 consecutive wins, based on what I've heard from people who have done it. You mean just to Silver? o_O I know it takes 170 losses to get from high master to bronze, about 3 hours using bot - but then, problem is that someone like me might notice it, report you, and you will get banned. True story! MUHAHAHA!! (My reports lead to ban for last-season-top-50-GM player cant stop talking about it sorry ^^) | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12237 Posts
On October 09 2011 10:13 Sek-Kuar wrote: Like all of them? I was pretty sure I did read on b.net before merge that players will keep their MMR unless on bigger realm is player with exactly same name AND character code... I was really sure about that ^^ Well thanks then, made me little curious yesterday when it somehow got into my head. The only thing that carried over for those players was their achievement progress and achievement points. Everything about the ladder they had to start from scratch. You mean just to Silver? o_O I know it takes 170 losses to get from high master to bronze, about 3 hours using bot - but then, problem is that someone like me might notice it, report you, and you will get banned. True story! MUHAHAHA!! (My reports lead to ban for last-season-top-50-GM player cant stop talking about it sorry ^^) hahaha nice. I report the people I find who do that too, but I always forget to keep them on my watch list so I never follow up to see if they get banned. The thing to keep in mind here is the concept of moving average. I was following Alejandrisha's new account Chrono who started off in Plat, and got to Diamond after going 23-0. Of course, he was facing Master players long before his actual promotion (starting with his 5th game out of placement). However, his promotion to Master was only 3 games later. Of course it takes most Diamond players way way way longer to get to Master than just 3 games, but the difference with Chrono is that the moving average trails so far behind the time where he first started encountering Master players. You can see my tracking here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvndKBD-7b4odHNNU0RjUmlnMHgzOUliUDF4b2ZzV1E&hl=en_US#gid=0 | ||
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Sek-Kuar
Czech Republic593 Posts
I however heard from multiple sources that bans arent permanent but just for 1 season, in that case I would start flaming them so hard cuz they did nothing to his acc - his bot completed all solo achievements in about week and they are not removed or anything like that, if he could ever come back then I dont really see any reason to not hack - besides runing achievements and overall fun from game for yourself, but thats something sadly many players really dont understand. However, his "Career" page in profile shows no record of ever playing anything, though "Last season" is still there with shiny Top50 GM milestone. I thing career was added after his ban though, dunno really... Guess Ill know in few weeks. | ||
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Botnot
United States16 Posts
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DarQraven
Netherlands553 Posts
In order to get promoted, you must surpass the skill of people in the league above you - as in, get them kicked out, not just improve? The fixed percentages seem to suggest this. After all, if, say, silver league is supposed to be the 20% of the total playerbase above bronze, and a bronze gets promoted, then silvers would have to get demoted in order to keep these percentages constant. If that is true, that would lend credence to the observation that promotions are easier at the start of a new season. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2580 Posts
On October 11 2011 22:41 DarQraven wrote: Am I understanding the league distribution part correctly if I took from it that: In order to get promoted, you must surpass the skill of people in the league above you - as in, get them kicked out, not just improve? The fixed percentages seem to suggest this. After all, if, say, silver league is supposed to be the 20% of the total playerbase above bronze, and a bronze gets promoted, then silvers would have to get demoted in order to keep these percentages constant. If that is true, that would lend credence to the observation that promotions are easier at the start of a new season. From the OP: The system dynamically distributes the population of active players across a constant range of MMR values, and league boundaries are fixed in relation to MMR. The boundaries are based on MMR values selected by a prior distribution that will capture these certain percentiles. Furthermore, the league boundaries can be adjusted by Blizzard on the fly in the event that populations need to be normalized. So no. The only league that someone has to leave to make room for you is GM. For all other leagues, Blizzard defines MMR boundaries such that about 20% of the active population will fall between each set of boundaries (except diamond and master, of course), and you are promoted or demoted as your MMR moves past these boundaries. Edited to add: Globally speaking, of course, promotions to silver will be balanced by demotions to bronze over the long term, since the system is set up such that the percentages of active population in each league stay close to 20/20/20/20/18/2. | ||
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Sek-Kuar
Czech Republic593 Posts
This way, you can be promoted and then lose IDK lets say 10 games and still remain in your new league. If promotion and demotion shared same MMR boundary, then you would be demoted in case of lose right after promotion, again promoted with win in very next game etc. - making it possible to change league 20 times a day, which would be OFC stupid. Excalibur calls it 'league buffer" or something like that. | ||
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DarQraven
Netherlands553 Posts
On October 11 2011 22:50 AmericanUmlaut wrote: From the OP: So no. The only league that someone has to leave to make room for you is GM. For all other leagues, Blizzard defines MMR boundaries such that about 20% of the active population will fall between each set of boundaries (except diamond and master, of course), and you are promoted or demoted as your MMR moves past these boundaries. Edited to add: Globally speaking, of course, promotions to silver will be balanced by demotions to bronze over the long term, since the system is set up such that the percentages of active population in each league stay close to 20/20/20/20/18/2. True, I meant in a long-term sense. I was just wondering if ladder ranks and league placements from S1 and S2 are anywhere comparable to placements in S3. As in, I played a few guys in S1 who were diamond. Seeing my recent play, I'm pretty sure I could beat the "then"-them. However, with what you explained in mind, they are still diamond, I'm plat, so I guess they improved at the same rate I did, just started higher up. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2580 Posts
On October 12 2011 18:08 DarQraven wrote: True, I meant in a long-term sense. I was just wondering if ladder ranks and league placements from S1 and S2 are anywhere comparable to placements in S3. As in, I played a few guys in S1 who were diamond. Seeing my recent play, I'm pretty sure I could beat the "then"-them. However, with what you explained in mind, they are still diamond, I'm plat, so I guess they improved at the same rate I did, just started higher up. Well, we can assume that at at least the diamond to grand master range, the typical player is improving at least a bit, since the kind of player who gets into that range is more likely the sort of person who takes the game seriously enough to be trying to improve their play. So there's a certain extent to which you'd need to keep up just to stay in a higher league. I would guess that player retention has a bigger impact on the difficulty of getting into a given league, though. I suspect (but can't prove) that there is a negative correlation between MMR and quitting the ladder (ie, the weaker the player, the more likely they are to give up on SC2). If that's true, and every season more people leave the lowest leagues than leave the highest leagues, then there will be a pull toward the bottom that will make it harder and harder to make it into the highest leagues. I imagine in 5 years we'll have something like Iccup, where you have to actually practice a ton and get pretty good to make it out of Bronze as a new player, because the majority of the ladder population will be pretty hardcore players with years of experience. | ||
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wilsonusopen
9 Posts
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SDream
Brazil896 Posts
On October 13 2011 15:52 wilsonusopen wrote: does anyone know how many master divisions there are? sc2ranks know: http://www.sc2ranks.com/div/all/master/1/points/0 308 world wide. 126 in americas region alone. | ||
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OxyContin
Australia10 Posts
However as the new season rolls in and everyone will have to do their placements matches again, will everyone for lack of a better term be "cleanly separated" into their rightful leagues? Would this also mean that for the period of time just after a new season starts that there will be little to no players who are in leagues which they should not be in? | ||
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