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United States12275 Posts
On September 21 2011 04:40 dschneid wrote:
This is just something I'm generally curious about, not complaining or anything like that. When I look at my league and the top people a lot of people I see with lots of points but just a regular record and I wonder how they got all those points, for example, the top 10 in my master league are:
1,481 136 95 58.87%
1,356 267 244 52.25%
1,323 108 101 51.67%
1,317 121 114 51.49%
1,263 308 307 50.08%
1,198 454 451 50.17%
1,165 166 151 52.37%
1,162 151 132 53.36%
1,155 109 105 50.93%
1,154 98 88 52.69%
This is public information but I removed the names all the same. Some of these look pretty understandable like the top 2 for example, but a few of them I wonder how the math works out, given my own record and points:
rank 49
675 103 105 49.52% (bonus pool ~ 100-150)
as compared to rank 9 there
1,155 109 105 50.93% (bonus pool idk but approximate the same based on number of wins I'd think...)
Even if I won 6 more games I wouldn't be near this number of points. I suppose it's possible that the majority of this person's losses were against favored opponents and the majority of their wins were also against favored opponents, but I would think at some point this would normalize and most of the games (like mine) would be even matches, no? Also, if anything I would expect the opposite, that someone so high up would often be the favored person...
Maybe someone at the top of their league can comment as well?
They're playing better opponents than you. You only have 675 points in Master league with 150 spare bonus pool? The current max bonus pool is 724. That puts you just barely above the break-even point which is virtually the low end of Master league. The #9 guy is playing against better players which allows his points to rise faster over the same number of games and even the same record. Even though you're both probably playing even matches now, it wasn't like that at the start and that's where the gap originates.
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When you look at profiles in http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/XXXXXX/XXX and so on it shows the bonuspool as if you where playing in Masters even if you are in Diamond? since i have like 5-10 bonuspool and it says on the site that I have 315 ^_^ is this for everyone or is this just a bug for some ppl?
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On September 22 2011 22:26 SpurvL wrote:When you look at profiles in http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/XXXXXX/XXX and so on it shows the bonuspool as if you where playing in Masters even if you are in Diamond? since i have like 5-10 bonuspool and it says on the site that I have 315 ^_^ is this for everyone or is this just a bug for some ppl?
It is bugged in the websites for everyone (well, master and GM players aren't "bugged" for obvious reasons  ).
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I am impressed. Very well done. 
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I was never sure how this really worked out in detail. It's very descriptive and informative. Thanks a lot.
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Thanks for the thread, excalibur. The information here kept me encouraged to keep playing and I got my masters promotion today.
For reference, I was playing pretty badly for a couple of days and went on some horrid losing streaks, but over the last three days I went 29-14, started playing people ranked 8-15 in their own masters divisions today, and won half of my matches therefrom. The promotion quickly followed.
I know moving average was confirmed a long time ago, but hopefully that information helps.
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Thanks Excalibur_Z for a very useful post that helps me understand my situation. I wish I could see my MMR but that defeats the point.
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Ok so I'm trying to figure out what tier my diamond division is. My Adjusted points are 202 with ~80 games played. I played a master opponent who gained 12 points by beating me (no bonus pool available). Based on http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=256298 that tells me he had a 50% chance of beating me, thus our MMRs are very close. His adjusted points are only 126. Now I'm confused because I thought my adjusted points would be near 150 more than his at the least. What am I missing?
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United States12275 Posts
On September 28 2011 15:35 Stipulation wrote:Ok so I'm trying to figure out what tier my diamond division is. My Adjusted points are 202 with ~80 games played. I played a master opponent who gained 12 points by beating me (no bonus pool available). Based on http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=256298 that tells me he had a 50% chance of beating me, thus our MMRs are very close. His adjusted points are only 126. Now I'm confused because I thought my adjusted points would be near 150 more than his at the least. What am I missing?
And how many points did you lose? If he gained 12 adjusted points for his win then that means your points are roughly equal to his MMR. However, this doesn't guarantee that your MMR is very close to his unless you also lost 12. The difference of about 76 points between you suggests that you are likely in the highest Diamond tier, but it also would make sense if you lost maybe 10 or 9 points for that game.
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On September 28 2011 15:47 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 15:35 Stipulation wrote:Ok so I'm trying to figure out what tier my diamond division is. My Adjusted points are 202 with ~80 games played. I played a master opponent who gained 12 points by beating me (no bonus pool available). Based on http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=256298 that tells me he had a 50% chance of beating me, thus our MMRs are very close. His adjusted points are only 126. Now I'm confused because I thought my adjusted points would be near 150 more than his at the least. What am I missing? And how many points did you lose? If he gained 12 adjusted points for his win then that means your points are roughly equal to his MMR. However, this doesn't guarantee that your MMR is very close to his unless you also lost 12. The difference of about 76 points between you suggests that you are likely in the highest Diamond tier, but it also would make sense if you lost maybe 10 or 9 points for that game.
I lost 11 Points
Edit: BTW you're the best Excalibur.
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dont understand how a lot of people in general find themself good when they are only in diamond league.
in World of warcraft terms being a diamond player is equal to being a rival/duelist wich is really bad.
in wow i was gladiator 8times and rank 1 1time wich would be equal to getting top 10master and ending up top 100GM league so i'm fully aware of what i'm talking about when it comes to compareing this.
seen a lot of my friends being downtalked because they are in silver/gold league by diamond players but they fact is that diamond players themself are really averege and it could be achieved by any retard
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On September 28 2011 20:42 Granter wrote:
dont understand how a lot of people in general find themself good when they are only in diamond league.
in World of warcraft terms being a diamond player is equal to being a rival/duelist wich is really bad.
in wow i was gladiator 8times and rank 1 1time wich would be equal to getting top 10master and ending up top 100GM league so i'm fully aware of what i'm talking about when it comes to compareing this.
seen a lot of my friends being downtalked because they are in silver/gold league by diamond players but they fact is that diamond players themself are really averege and it could be achieved by any retard
You have no sense of how hard StarCraft is. It's the hardest game in the world. Try explaining it to someone who's never played before, it's really difficult. To say diamond league can be achieved by "any retard" is pretty ridiculous, have some perspective.
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On September 28 2011 20:42 Granter wrote:
dont understand how a lot of people in general find themself good when they are only in diamond league.
in World of warcraft terms being a diamond player is equal to being a rival/duelist wich is really bad.
in wow i was gladiator 8times and rank 1 1time wich would be equal to getting top 10master and ending up top 100GM league so i'm fully aware of what i'm talking about when it comes to compareing this.
seen a lot of my friends being downtalked because they are in silver/gold league by diamond players but they fact is that diamond players themself are really averege and it could be achieved by any retard
It's all relative. A top pro like Huk, Sheth, Thorzain or whoever would mock you for your inability to hang with the top GM's. Anyone outside of the pros can do fairly well in SC.
Some people just don't have or want to invest in the time to become really good at a game, or at least this game. In any case, even if most folks are mechanically able to break into the upper Masters, there's a large investment in time and effort to ride the learning curve in order to get that status.
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On September 29 2011 19:48 synkronized wrote:
Some people just don't have or want to invest in the time to become really good at a game, or at least this game. In any case, even if most folks are mechanically able to break into the upper Masters, there's a large investment in time and effort to ride the learning curve in order to get that status.
Yep.
This is my first RTS and I'm not a huge gamer. But I love SC2, I watch pro games, and I am a sort of active player (avg maybe 3 games/day since release). This puts me at Plat.
I know I could be better if I put some serious time into really training as opposed to playing, maybe even masters (maybe - my APM is really low). But really, this is still a GAME for me, I'm just looking to have fun, so it isn't worth the time and effort to me to really study it hard.
If that means I'm lower than any retard, so be it. But I don't believe it.
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Are there any sites that give ladder ranking by adjusted points? It would be somewhat more meaningful than sc2rank way of rating by points.
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United States12275 Posts
On October 01 2011 00:32 Stipulation wrote:
Are there any sites that give ladder ranking by adjusted points? It would be somewhat more meaningful than sc2rank way of rating by points.
That would be the dream, wouldn't it? =) Alas, there is no way to do this, and there's a Battle.net website display bug where you always see the Master-level bonus pool rather than the bonus pool that's intended for that player's league. SC2Ranks does have a "points - bonus" filter that automatically deducts the total bonus pool, but that just makes it inaccurate for the players who haven't spent all theirs.
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First of all, it is a very good post and thank you for trying to understand how the system works and then explain it.
I red many of the posts but I haven't the time to red all of them so I wanna ask you some questions. I am a diamond player so, how can I see whats the max bonus pool now so to find my adjusted points?
And how can I find my tier in diamond? I haven't played any game versus a master player, yet, so to compare with him. I only play versus diamond and hight diamond players and I am 21-14 in general with 370 points (I don't know if that matters).
Lastly, if I play versus a master player how to compare me with him?
p.s. I think that you need to upgrade your post with frequently asked questions and usefull stuff and examples maybe. That would give people a better idea, but this awsome already. Thank you! 
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United States12275 Posts
On October 01 2011 05:21 CNSnow wrote:First of all, it is a very good post and thank you for trying to understand how the system works and then explain it. I red many of the posts but I haven't the time to red all of them so I wanna ask you some questions. I am a diamond player so, how can I see whats the max bonus pool now so to find my adjusted points? And how can I find my tier in diamond? I haven't played any game versus a master player, yet, so to compare with him. I only play versus diamond and hight diamond players and I am 21-14 in general with 370 points (I don't know if that matters). Lastly, if I play versus a master player how to compare me with him? p.s. I think that you need to upgrade your post with frequently asked questions and usefull stuff and examples maybe. That would give people a better idea, but this awsome already. Thank you!
In nearly every division there is someone with 0 wins. This means they have not spent any bonus pool. Look at that player's profile in-game (remember the website bonus pool display bug) and look him up in 1v1, then look up his remaining bonus pool. That will tell you the max bonus pool for your league.
You can't really find out your tier in Diamond, it's obfuscated quite well. We just know that the tiers exist based on evidence that can no longer be reproduced. Given enough information, you may be able to get a decent idea based upon how many points your opponents have and the amount of points gained or lost by both players. That is, if you win +12 and your opponent loses -12 and your opponent has 60 more points than you, then perhaps his division is one tier lower than yours. Based upon only one data point, this is not reliable, but after many data points you may get closer to finding out.
If you play against a Master player you should look at his previous opponents over the last several games. Take note of their league and the last couple of opponents they've played against. This will let you determine whether that Master player has a Master-quality MMR or a Diamond-quality MMR. If he faces Diamond-level opponents (either Diamonds or Masters who play Diamonds) then you know that he is in the Diamond region rather than you being in the Master region. If he faces Master-level opponents (either Masters or Diamonds who play Masters), then you know that you are in the Master region.
I will consider adding a FAQ section but that really tends to become the focal point of the guide which is what I want to avoid (all the info is important and should be read).
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I am baffled. I am in diamond... got matched against a grandmaster... and i lost 9 points?!
PS: zvz baneling sucks =[
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On October 05 2011 13:26 TheRabidDeer wrote:
I am baffled. I am in diamond... got matched against a grandmaster... and i lost 9 points?!
Is it possible that you're very good for diamond, or he's very bad for grandmaster?
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EPT
