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Looking for hand speed exercises. - Page 2

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Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
February 21 2011 10:32 GMT
#21
Playing FPS games helps a lot, honestly, or you could try a game like Osu!

There's nothing really wrong with the speed of your hands, you just need to aim better and make faster decisions. The good news is, the cure for subpar gaming: more gaming!
We found Dove in a soapless place.
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
February 21 2011 10:33 GMT
#22
On February 21 2011 18:29 Steamboatlol wrote:
So I've come to the conclusion that I have slow uncoordinated fingers. I average 60 APM a game and really just am looking for some simple exercises to train my hands to be faster. I've used the search function and no dice. When I google search things like finger speed/coordination all I get are guitar and piano guides which require a guitar or piano. I'm getting a mechanical keyboard but I know that equipment can only take you so far (which isn't very far at all). Can anyone help me?


Do a TL search for the multitask trainer that was made a few months ago. Even to beat "very easy" you have to maintain an APM of over 100 in order to carry out the win.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
Granath
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Sweden31 Posts
February 21 2011 10:35 GMT
#23
Seriously dude, I can't imagine any exercise that will improve handspeed and coordination FOR Starcraft more then actually PLAYING Starcraft.

People are always looking for shortcuts or small tricks to improve, but the best thing to do is just play the game.

If I wanna be a fast drummer I don't think to myself "Well then I should probably hit the gym and work on my wrist strength". No I would just drum wouldn't I?
Steamboatlol
Profile Joined April 2010
United States161 Posts
February 21 2011 10:39 GMT
#24
On February 21 2011 19:26 vaderseven wrote:
Hand speed and APM are only related when you are trying to improve like that stupid fast parts of the top level play. Bisu talked about it once in some interview or vod (I think bnet attacks) and he basically says he wants to improve his hand speed so he can play faster. He is a 350+ apm player. Thats where that kind of discussion is the right way to look at the issue.

What you need for breaking your apm barrier of 60 apm is better control, not faster control. Find ways to use hotkeys more, move the mouse less, and to do each individual action with the least amount of excess movement or downtime and you will find that your apm will go way up. Want to know how to do exactly that? Take a tiny part of your play and refine it. Here is a step by step on how to do exactly that.

I assume you are Zerg by your icon. Try this, go into a blank map. Make some lings and send them somewhere. Hotkey them to 1. Go to your base and either hotkey the main hatch to like 5 and the natural hatch to 6 (both hatches on 4 for making the units) or set a screen hotkey (aka the fkeys) so that one is over each hatch. Get a few drones at each base and one gas going at your main.

Now press 11. Play with your lings. Get in the groove of it. Spread em out, move 2 over there and 4 over there. Just like keep them active. Now keep doing that and think about something that you normally do in a game. For this example lets say you want to take the 2 gas at your natural. You are still playin with the lings. Think about that 2 gas you want to take. Now move all your lings back to simulate a good little safe move back (say half a screen back to "safety"), use a hotkey (screen hotkey or double tap the hotkey for the hatch) to instantly go to your natural. Box two drones (or more), hit 'b' then 'v' (shift) (click on gas) (click on other gas) then double tap '1'.

Thats what will make you a fast player. Being able to do things like this. Did you do it so fast you were able to be zoomed back at your lings before they had moved half a screen (about 1 or 2 seconds time im guessing)? No? Then go to your natural, cancel the 2 gas, double hit '1' and get your lings all moving and playing again. Think about what you are about to try. Keep the lings moving. Move lings to safe spot, zoom to nat, make the 2 gas with no wild mouse movements and as few keys used as possible, zoom to lings.

This little exercise is based on teaching your to be able to be doing something (microing or scouting or positioning units in this case), think about what you want to do next in your build (take 2 gas in this case), move troops to a safe spot so that you have a few seconds of peace of mind where your troops will not be in danger, zoom to the area where you can do that next thing of your build, do it in a effecient manner (as few as possible clicks and mouse movements), and then zoom to the next task (in this case, going back to your lings before anything bad happens to them).

If you do this example exactly, and you do it correctly, you should be able to zoom back to the lings and have them moving somewhere new before they stop moving to safety. This will make it look like they are always being controlled/microed to an obs or to the enemy. This is the sign of a fast player.

I went and checked just to give you an idea of the 'hand speed' needed to do this by doing my example. While playing with my lings my apm was about 100. When I zoomed to my nat and made the stuff and zoomed back to my lings, it jumped to about 130 for a second and then was back to around 100.

I tried it again after that trying to be as low apm as possible and still do it correctly. To test my execution speed of placing the 2 gas I made it a mental goal to only move the lings back about 1/8th of a screen size (lings move that in NO time) when going to go place the gas. I was able to keep the lings moving without them stopping, place the 2 gas, and zoom back to the lings before they stopped with around 50 apm.

I am very sure that if you try this you will find you take around 5-10 seconds to place those 2 gas. Use accurate and sure mouse control and know by heart what you mean to do with your keyboard hand before you do it and you can do that step in WELL under one second without amazing handspeed. When doing the example and trying for low apm I was able to only spend ~1 second looking at my natural as I placed the 2 gas.

I am very sure that my handspeed was much higher while typing this post then when I was doing the little drill.

Its a mental thing, know that its not about speed but about memory and precision and good use of the UI.


60 is what the average thing says, it jumps to 150ish when I really start multitasking. I guess what I need to make clear here is I'm not asking about apm, I'm asking about hand speed. I play toss but I appreciate the advice. As a side note, when my hands are moving fast they look like a sloppy awkward caveman instead of the clean piano like tapping of the pro gamers. I know many of the things I need to do, but I need to do them a lot faster. I know this isn't the only thing holding me back but it's certainly something I'd like to work on.
Steamboatlol
Profile Joined April 2010
United States161 Posts
February 21 2011 10:44 GMT
#25
On February 21 2011 19:35 Granath wrote:
Seriously dude, I can't imagine any exercise that will improve handspeed and coordination FOR Starcraft more then actually PLAYING Starcraft.

People are always looking for shortcuts or small tricks to improve, but the best thing to do is just play the game.

If I wanna be a fast drummer I don't think to myself "Well then I should probably hit the gym and work on my wrist strength". No I would just drum wouldn't I?

I don't think that analogy is entirely accurate. For example when boxers want to increase their punching speed they do a lot more training with the speed bag. Sure they still spar, but they are addressing a specific problem with a specific regiment.
qxc
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States550 Posts
February 21 2011 10:45 GMT
#26
http://osu.ppy.sh/
ProgamerDesigner of Aeon's End
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
February 21 2011 10:46 GMT
#27
I think you need more precision, not more speed. You can have all the speed in the world but if you can't hit the unit or facility you want instantly you're not playing any faster. I think you would be better off focusing on clicking accurately and adjusting your mouse and ingame settings for precision.

I always rapidly click mineral patches, vespene geysers and harvesters inbetween box select spamming in the early game. It actually really helped me with fast accuracy.
I think esports is pretty nice.
Steamboatlol
Profile Joined April 2010
United States161 Posts
February 21 2011 10:48 GMT
#28
On February 21 2011 19:46 Saechiis wrote:
I think you need more precision, not more speed. You can have all the speed in the world but if you can't hit the unit or facility you want instantly you're not playing any faster. I think you would be better off focusing on clicking accurately and adjusting your mouse and ingame settings for precision.

I always rapidly click mineral patches, vespene geysers and harvesters inbetween box select spamming in the early game. It actually really helped me with fast accuracy.

It's my keyboard hand that's actually slow, I was a competitive FPS player and my mouse accuracy is actually quite good (of course we all could use more)
Rorra
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1066 Posts
February 21 2011 10:48 GMT
#29
I don't know if its been sai, but playing this is what helped get my multitasking and thus hand speed up, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124983
SecondChance
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia603 Posts
February 21 2011 10:48 GMT
#30
Practice practice practice. Like the majority of players; I box workers and switch between building keybinds at the start of the game an attempt to maintain the level of APM.

Seems to help. When I first started playing Sc2, I had a 70 APM average throughout my games. With practice and becoming more confident and knowledgeable of timings and what you're doing, your APM increases. I now sit at 135 APM per game.

In short, just practice and become comfortable with your build orders and timings. You'll get those down and find you have time to do other tasks.
I see the want to in your eyes.
Skrelt
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands306 Posts
February 21 2011 11:04 GMT
#31
you can get into master with 60 apm, APM doesnt stand for you skill.
if you want faster hand for the sake of having faster hands than you can just spam alot, 1sd1sd1sd14561sd1sd1sdrrr1srrrr5461sd1sd (something like that)
The Wolfpack - Metalband from the Netherlands
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-21 11:11:34
February 21 2011 11:10 GMT
#32
On February 21 2011 19:48 Steamboatlol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2011 19:46 Saechiis wrote:
I think you need more precision, not more speed. You can have all the speed in the world but if you can't hit the unit or facility you want instantly you're not playing any faster. I think you would be better off focusing on clicking accurately and adjusting your mouse and ingame settings for precision.

I always rapidly click mineral patches, vespene geysers and harvesters inbetween box select spamming in the early game. It actually really helped me with fast accuracy.

It's my keyboard hand that's actually slow, I was a competitive FPS player and my mouse accuracy is actually quite good (of course we all could use more)


Then you need a more accurate OP

In that case, you'll have to do the same for the keyboard. Hotkey whatever you can and force yourself to use those even though you play like crap because of it. No peeking at the keyboard allowed, so maybe you should practice in a dark environment (like all proper nerds). Never click on stuff unless you absolutely have to and use your hotkeys to tab through your production facilities to see what is getting done, don't queue.

The largest APM improvement for me came when I could hit all my hotkeys without watching them and started looking at the minimap for things to do in addition to having a gameplan.

Basically, watch the recent Day9 daily on mechanics, it is really clear in how to practice properly. You certainly don't need a new keyboard, that's probably the last place to look for APM improvement (unless it's unresponsive or broken ofc).
I think esports is pretty nice.
Steamboatlol
Profile Joined April 2010
United States161 Posts
February 21 2011 11:18 GMT
#33
On February 21 2011 20:10 Saechiis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2011 19:48 Steamboatlol wrote:
On February 21 2011 19:46 Saechiis wrote:
I think you need more precision, not more speed. You can have all the speed in the world but if you can't hit the unit or facility you want instantly you're not playing any faster. I think you would be better off focusing on clicking accurately and adjusting your mouse and ingame settings for precision.

I always rapidly click mineral patches, vespene geysers and harvesters inbetween box select spamming in the early game. It actually really helped me with fast accuracy.

It's my keyboard hand that's actually slow, I was a competitive FPS player and my mouse accuracy is actually quite good (of course we all could use more)


Then you need a more accurate OP

In that case, you'll have to do the same for the keyboard. Hotkey whatever you can and force yourself to use those even though you play like crap because of it. No peeking at the keyboard allowed, so maybe you should practice in a dark environment (like all proper nerds). Never click on stuff unless you absolutely have to and use your hotkeys to tab through your production facilities to see what is getting done, don't queue.

The largest APM improvement for me came when I could hit all my hotkeys without watching them and started looking at the minimap for things to do in addition to having a gameplan.

Basically, watch the recent Day9 daily on mechanics, it is really clear in how to practice properly. You certainly don't need a new keyboard, that's probably the last place to look for APM improvement (unless it's unresponsive or broken ofc).


Thats basically what I'm doing now, but my keyboard hand is still a slow sloppy caveman hand
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
February 21 2011 11:52 GMT
#34
On February 21 2011 20:18 Steamboatlol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2011 20:10 Saechiis wrote:
On February 21 2011 19:48 Steamboatlol wrote:
On February 21 2011 19:46 Saechiis wrote:
I think you need more precision, not more speed. You can have all the speed in the world but if you can't hit the unit or facility you want instantly you're not playing any faster. I think you would be better off focusing on clicking accurately and adjusting your mouse and ingame settings for precision.

I always rapidly click mineral patches, vespene geysers and harvesters inbetween box select spamming in the early game. It actually really helped me with fast accuracy.

It's my keyboard hand that's actually slow, I was a competitive FPS player and my mouse accuracy is actually quite good (of course we all could use more)


Then you need a more accurate OP

In that case, you'll have to do the same for the keyboard. Hotkey whatever you can and force yourself to use those even though you play like crap because of it. No peeking at the keyboard allowed, so maybe you should practice in a dark environment (like all proper nerds). Never click on stuff unless you absolutely have to and use your hotkeys to tab through your production facilities to see what is getting done, don't queue.

The largest APM improvement for me came when I could hit all my hotkeys without watching them and started looking at the minimap for things to do in addition to having a gameplan.

Basically, watch the recent Day9 daily on mechanics, it is really clear in how to practice properly. You certainly don't need a new keyboard, that's probably the last place to look for APM improvement (unless it's unresponsive or broken ofc).


Thats basically what I'm doing now, but my keyboard hand is still a slow sloppy caveman hand


Well, it's really hard for us to see whether you just need more practice or whether there's some fundamental flaw in your gameplay. Maybe if you post a replay we can see your screen movements, hotkey setup etc.
I think esports is pretty nice.
susySquark
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1692 Posts
February 21 2011 12:55 GMT
#35
Osu and stepmania! do help if you want a different activity. Otherwise, just play more SC.
bubblegumbo
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Taiwan1296 Posts
February 21 2011 13:04 GMT
#36
The truth is that most people have more things that are holding them back in SC2 other than hand speed. Play the game more and when your understanding of the game increases so will your hand speed naturally.
Watch the Day9 episode on Mechanics for sure. There is no way to get better effectively other than playing the game. Go play custom ladder maps if you are worried about your win ratio so much.
"I honestly think that whoever invented toilet paper is a genius. For man to survive, they need toilet paper!"- Nal_rA
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
February 21 2011 13:22 GMT
#37
On February 21 2011 19:09 rei wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2011 19:02 Steamboatlol wrote:
On February 21 2011 19:00 rei wrote:
hand speed is not the reason someone is playing fast, apm is a by-product of multitasking. When you get better at multitasking you will play in a higher apm.


I know this. Like I said sometimes I know all the things I need to do but my hands can't keep up with what my head wants them to do.


You want to learn how to multitasking? knowing all the things you need to do but unable to do them in the right timing, is not because your hands can't keep up, it is because you are not assigning priority in to those different tasks. Let me know if you want lesson, my rate is 200 wow gold per hour, very cheap.


Man priority has nothing to do here.

I know
that I need to inject hatcheries, put a evo chamber, make a 4th hatch and put an ultralisk cavern just before opponent attacks me, but I just can't do all that fast enough.

Everything comes with practice.
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
BetterFasterStronger
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States604 Posts
February 21 2011 13:26 GMT
#38
The most obvious one is ... playing starcraft 2 and Focusing on being fast and not winning the game (which is hard to do)
Top 200 as Protoss - Switched to Terran. 0-30 against EGiNcontroL... God damnet
Deadlyfish
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark1980 Posts
February 21 2011 13:28 GMT
#39
You've got it wrong. You can average 500 apm by just tapping the space bar, everyone can. The reason you only have 60 APM in starcraft is because you dont have enough practice. Getting familiar with hotkeys, and remembering supply/spending/making units is the hard part.

Training your hands to be fast wont do a single thing, you'll still be slow in starcraft.

You feel like you know what to do, but you cant do it fast enough? Thats because you havent had enough practice in starcraft, not because your hands just arent fast enough.
If wishes were horses we'd be eating steak right now.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-21 13:54:55
February 21 2011 13:48 GMT
#40
I'd say there's a few things.

http://osu.ppy.sh/ is good for the mouse

http://www.starcraft.7x.ru/content/files_real_down.php?fid=651 This is amazing for mouse and helps with keyboard as well if you so choose. Not exactly developed with SC2 in mind but that doesn't matter at all.

For keyboard I guess you just need to pay attention, but it should be by far the easier of the two.


Mostly it's also about pushing yourself and doing as much as you can. I also suggest you play some of the Micro/Macro customs where you need to micro a probe and keep it alive while building up your base and playing normally. Those kinds of maps have been amazingly helpful for my multitasking.

On February 21 2011 22:28 Deadlyfish wrote:The reason you only have 60 APM in starcraft is because you dont have enough practice. Getting familiar with hotkeys, and remembering supply/spending/making units is the hard part.

I disagree, ever since I spent a few days on speeding up my APM in SCBW I went from 90 apm to 210 apm and currently average 170 in SC2 and it's incredibly helpful for the game. It isn't only about being faster in SC2, you really need to have the mechanical skills like accuracy and the ability to control multiple things at once that you only get with specific practice. Maybe you can reach the same thing by playing 1000 games with intensity but why not instead spend 10 hours on micro/macro maps?

¨
On February 21 2011 19:35 Granath wrote:
Seriously dude, I can't imagine any exercise that will improve handspeed and coordination FOR Starcraft more then actually PLAYING Starcraft.

People are always looking for shortcuts or small tricks to improve, but the best thing to do is just play the game.

I strongly disagree, specific practice to make my APM higher has been super helpful and it's also had a very strong impact on my level of Starcraft play.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
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