Is game knowledge really important for a caster? - Page 13

FatAss

Germany82 Posts

October 15 2011 03:15 GMT

#241

No, not really. You don't need to be a Grandmaster to be entertaining. The best thing is a casterduo with 1 like Artosis/Day9 and 1 Entertainer like Husky/Tasteless.

GenoPewPew

United States347 Posts

October 15 2011 04:13 GMT

#242

Game knowledge is important to a certain extent but not everyone can analyze on the level of a Day9, Apollo, or an Artosis. If it's just basic things that the caster talks about, it's fine. I'd like it a little bit more if the backgrounds of the players get some mention since I think it adds another dynamic to the casting (something I'm trying to do). I understand that it is not on that level yet though

Beece

United States62 Posts

October 15 2011 04:31 GMT

#243

Yes Game knowledge is extremely important, it's what makes Tastosis so good. They literally have it all, they know the game extremely well, they can keep up with the pace of the game, they also are funny as hell.

Casters like Husky & HD while they can commentate quick and enthusiastically on the action, they have no understanding of the game and can't make accurate predictions. Good examples of that are the MLG right now with Idra V Boxer, Husky just literally asks Artosis questions the whole time about what Artosis thinks is going to do because Husky frankly just doesn't know, and Artosis has been spot on with his predictions the whole time.

Shebuha

Canada1335 Posts

October 15 2011 04:53 GMT

#244

Personally, analysis is my favourite part of the commentary.. when Idra does commentary for tourneys (EGMC) or for his stream I ALWAYS watch it; it's just exciting for me to feel all that knowledge getting spewed upon my lowly self.

But in general, yeah, game knowledge is really important. If there's only one caster, I think he should have a lot of in-game knowledge, but when there's 2 casters one of them can control (more so) battles/harass and the other (more so) BO/strategy.

I think Artosis by himself is a really really good caster, and has a great mix of knowledge/hype. Orb is really good too, in the ESV tourneys and NASL.

Artosis example:

- Not only an epic game, but epic commentary.

RezChi

Canada2368 Posts

October 15 2011 04:59 GMT

#245

Day9 beast of all commentators and casters out there. He's just to damn good.

Iselian

United States56 Posts

October 15 2011 06:04 GMT

#246

Is game knowledge really important? Absolutely it is. But what exactly do you mean by "game knowledge"? Are we talking Artosis/Idra level of knowledge, where they can tell at 18 probes that HuK will be choosing blink into DT harass at the 20 minute mark? (Exaggeration, I know.) Or do you mean Marauder > Stalker?

I think the former is a bit extreme, but necessary for the top leagues (MLG, GSL, so on). That's why we have pairs, however. However, the latter is best for excitement as well, but perhaps not for the reason people think. Some may associate that "Analysis =/= Exciting," but Artosis can still bring some gasps and cheers. So why have casters/commentators that are not fully aware on the grand master level? Because the non-GMs, what I would say is the majority of the player base, can relate to those that aren't so immersed in the sheer details and most intricate strategies.

By having the Tasteless, Husky, etc the fans still have the knowledge to dip in from the major analysts, but don't feel alienated. The big reason to have 2 is of course that you have the extra pair of eyes and another voice to share the load. But as far as knowledge required? I think people who are sufficiently capable of knowing basic strategies, balances and counters, should be fine. Identifying "Oh look, he's getting blink and +2, I bet it's a timing push" isn't too hard, at any rate.

Demonhunter04

1530 Posts

October 15 2011 06:08 GMT

#247

Tasteless certainly does possess a good amount of knowledge. However, his role is not to do the in-depth analysis so he comes off as the entertaining one who doesn't know too much while Artosis is the in-depth analyzer.

wishbones

Canada2600 Posts

October 15 2011 06:08 GMT

#248

game knowledge is extremely important if the caster wants to be any good. rank does not matter, because i know soo much about starcraft, yet cannot achieve a- rank, i can however explain the complexity in a cast. rank dont matter, game experience/knowledge/understanding does matter very much.

ive seen some casters literally just say I wonder why that probe is going out so soon. Someone with proper knowledge would not say that, instead would suggest a possible proxy, or a scout for a proxy, that would then make more hype during those moments of that probes life. as appose to "i donno" and just leaving the thing be.

tutsicockroach

United States57 Posts

October 15 2011 06:10 GMT

#249

very important, how can you hope to commentate on a game that you have no idea about? unless it's some kind of troll cast for comedic purposes

TigerKarl

1757 Posts

October 15 2011 06:15 GMT

#250

The one's that are described as "entertainers" aren't even more entertaining than analytical casters. They're just causing feelings of vicarious embarrassment.
There's simply no justification that someone who wants to do something professionally has poor knowledge about it.

whoopingchow

United States293 Posts

October 15 2011 06:18 GMT

#251

I don't want to have to work when I'm watching these matches--it's difficult enough to understand Kelly when she's just talking normally. Game knowledge is important, because I can figure out the play-by-play on my own. I enjoy listening to Artosis because he introduces me to concepts and ideas that I would otherwise not understand. At the end of the day, I'm watching the GSL to be entertained, and to hopefully learn something new. I can't imagine myself entertained, or exposed to new ideas, with Kelly casting.

Yamulo

United States2096 Posts

October 15 2011 06:21 GMT

#252

On October 15 2011 12:15 FatAss wrote:
No, not really. You don't need to be a Grandmaster to be entertaining. The best thing is a casterduo with 1 like Artosis/Day9 and 1 Entertainer like Husky/Tasteless.

Yeah, but even the entertainer needs to know when he is just spewing shit. It kind of irritates me when they say stuff that is wrong. You don't really need a ton of knowledge just some if you are being a shout caster. The analytical caster needs to be knowledgeable though.

This being said I don't have a problem with any of the current big casters, so no I am not trying to make a jab at any caster.

KimJongChill

United States6429 Posts

October 15 2011 06:21 GMT

#253

It's not black and white. It depends on caster charisma, etc.

Lucktar

United States526 Posts

October 15 2011 06:25 GMT

#254

I think the most important thing is that the caster realize what his knowledge level is. If you can't provide expert analysis, that's fine, but please don't say things that are blatantly wrong. The MLG Black streamer was talking about how much trouble Ret was in one game because he has just lost a 50-ish food army, when Ret was on like 7 bases. Ret re-maxed 20 seconds later and ran over his opponent for the win.

If all you can do is shoutcast what's being shown on screen, that's fine. Just know your limits.

nt-rAven

Canada405 Posts

October 15 2011 06:30 GMT

#255

the most important part of casting is knowing the scene and being able to relate with the viewers otherwise you will always look like an idiot, watch a lot, and i mean every single major event, know all the results and you can cast otherwise no you cant just makeup content, sc2 fans are to knowledgable with all this amazing internet access to vods

SoKHo

Korea (South)1081 Posts

October 15 2011 07:04 GMT

#256

On October 15 2011 06:03 Emporio wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 17 2011 05:55 Bobster wrote:

On February 17 2011 05:40 RvB wrote:

On February 17 2011 05:24 Bobster wrote:
All up to personal preference. Some want the insight, some want the pure entertainment, some want the mix (either in a single person, or by combining one and the other - Tastosis!)

There's people who do not care about game knowledge, and can appreciate enthusiastic casters that are purely entertaining without showing deeper insight into the game. Popular casters like Totalbiscuit, Khaldor, itmeJP, Tasteless or Husky are good examples for this, (albeit to varying degrees, obviously).

Then there are the dryer analysts, who drop the game knowledge, know all the timings and BOs inside out and can correctly predict how a game will progress from a certain point on, but are themselves not the most entertaining persons to listen to. Examples for this type of caster would be most pro-gamers without casting experience, like Idra when he stood in during GSL1, Martijn from Assembly, that type.

There's also the very rare breed of the caster that excels in several of these areas, people who are entertaining and funny, yet possess a deep knowledge of the game as well. Artosis, Day9, incontrol are names that come to mind immediately.

I think the relevant caster skills would be (in no particular order)
- Game knowledge
- Analytic Ability
- Quick Wit
- Humour
- Enthusiasm

I think everyone agrees that a caster needs either a solid stat in every category, or has to truly excel in one or two categories to be worth listening to. Of course, caster duos add these up and in this way can make up for each other's weaknesses.

And what the hell, just for fun, have some whimsical graphs on how I see some of the casters. >_>

I personally think people severly underestimate the game knowledge of Tasteless. I think ( but it's just speculation ofc ) that it's his job to get Artosis to analyze what I mean by that is that Tasteless is the one who has to ask the questions what he thinks every viewer is wondering so Artosis can explain it. I think he just plays kind of a role and he does it perfectly.

On topic I think it's definetly needed that someone entertains while the other does the analysis. A lot of people wont watch if its only analysis while there is the more hardcore group that wouldn't watch as much if it was only entertainment. So they try to combine it to hook up as many viewers to the stream at all times it's just business :p.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

The balanced mix is probably your safest bet to get as many people to watch your cast as possible, from the pure entertainment seeker to the hardcore analyst.

So applying this to the current topic (without actually knowing kellymilkies), I'd wager that Torch will take over the analysis part because he does have a decent amount of game knowledge and kelly will provide more of the play by play part. I guess we'll have to see how their chemistry and balance is to judge them as a casting duo.

And because people seemed to enjoy them, another round of caster stats. All my personal opinion, obviously.

Sorry to bump an old thread, but this came up as I was searching for stuff, and this picture was way too sexy to not bring back for people to look at again. I'm also interested in how people think casters have changed over the last 8 months, especially people like Husky, and maybe djWheat, as well as how newer big casters (Mr. Bitter, Rotti, dApollo) stack up. Well, those last guys aren't new per se, but they are maybe recently much more in the public eye.

TB doesn't deserve that low of a game knowledge ranking. Especially compared to DJWheat. Isn't DJWheat like gold/platinum? Last time I checked he didn't even play 1v1. Also, remember HD is still masters. How HD and DJWheat has almost the same game knowledge baffles me.

Medrea

10003 Posts

October 15 2011 07:10 GMT

#257

I love radar graphs and i approve of that picture.

I disagree in a few places but i really like it overall.

Neb1000

United States183 Posts

October 15 2011 07:15 GMT

#258

It's only bad when someone acts like they have game knowledge when they really don't.

brachester

Australia1786 Posts

October 15 2011 12:02 GMT

#259

On October 15 2011 16:15 Neb1000 wrote:
It's only bad when someone acts like they have game knowledge when they really don't.

i know who you're referring to

djdukes

11 Posts

October 15 2011 12:57 GMT

#260

You need 2 different types of people

1 who knows a ton about the game
1 who will get the information they seem the audience will be interested in out of the expert. Create excitement and interest and dictate the directions of what is being said (keep it on course on topic and interesting).

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Is game knowledge really important for a caster? - Page 13

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