EPTThe Stalkers正在扫荡这个基地like hell，这是GamerX的漂亮的一招
here's mine =D
[Germany] Issues with esports and casting language - Page 5
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
The Stalkers正在扫荡这个基地like hell，这是GamerX的漂亮的一招 here's mine =D | ||
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Loki_rAtM
Germany17 Posts
On February 12 2011 11:56 Saechiis wrote: Honestly, I think countries like Germany and France are too stubborn in translating everything to their own language. People should accept that the general vocabulary for entertainment is in English and roll with that. Since practically nothing in the Netherlands gets translated to Dutch we've learned from a much younger age to speak English. To this day I thank Cartoon Network for my knowledge of the English language. Even Korean casters use english terms in their BW commentary: pectory, playgu, reebu, keanu reeves. It's just something that needs to be abridgded by adapting. I envy you dutch people for the fact that you don't have dubbed TV. Most of the translated TV shows and movies from english speaking countrys suck in german. In my mind it just sounds wrong, that's why I have to rely on streams and the internet to watch movies the way they're meant to be watched. Same issue with pc-games and to some extend books. And when Blizzard started to translate names from Warcraft lore(Sometime during Burning Crusade expansion of World of Warcraft), my eyes started to bleed... Anyway I haven't watched any german casts since early beta just because of the fact that there are no talented casters imho. But respect to guys like Forsti.Henning who has casted some games in english even thou it's not his native language. Some things are not meant to be translated! | ||
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nufcrulz
Singapore934 Posts
On February 12 2011 10:29 Blasterion wrote: That sounds awkward in more ways than one, especially the like hell part Also because doesnt hell mean "bright" in German? Must cause quite a bit of confusion for first time viewers... | ||
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duckii
Germany1017 Posts
I do not like the "denglish" at all. English unit names and starcraft slang is ok but by the love of god, stuff like "forcen" or other germanized verbs make me cringe. Don't butcher the language! | ||
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krisss
Luxembourg305 Posts
Those expressions dont need to be replaced by a "local expression". If u want to have everything translated u should watch once french television. its awefull, they have an own expression for all the poker moves.. (is it that hard to keep "call, check, fold?  )And the fact that some german casters even use english gramar (not only the appropriate expressions) just shows that they should learn how to cast games.. imho germany only has very few casters which all really need to improve. This is not only because of they strange gramar but also because of their massiv lack of sc2 knowledge. | ||
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Vod.kaholic
United States1052 Posts
Imagine for a second that there were no SC2 scene anywhere except Germany, but the German scene were rather big. SC2 is still an English-language game and all the unit and building names are of English origin, but all the vocabulary that arises for casting and such is then purely German. This was clearly the case in Korea, where they still used Korean-ized versions of the English names but developed/adopted Korea vocabulary to describe the strategies and actions. The thing Korea also had going for it is that it wasn't influenced by the foreign scene very much (I don't really know, I could be wrong) in terms of casting. When you look at Germany though, it is entering into a much more integrated global scene where the biggest casters (HD, Husky, Day9, tastosis etc.) cast in English and can reach a very wide audience among educated, bilingual European gamers. The reason the German scene has problems effectively developing its own vocabulary is because of the "cultural" weight that casters from other scenes are bringing to bear on the yet-undeveloped German scene. As other posters have pointed out with the Khaldor vs. HomerJ issue, German casters haven't set their OWN model for casting, they're trying to emulate what the foreigners do. There simply hasn't been enough time or space between the German and the larger English-speaking scene for the former to go through a process of natural growth and adaptation - it's stifled by the weight of the foreign scene. | ||
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Lurxer
Germany24 Posts
What I do dislike, are all those normal english words, which are just thrown into a german sentence. When, in most cases, you could just translate them to one normal german word. There are enough examples posted in this thread already and I can totaly understand the people that hate them. I can't stand listen to it, because for me it sounds awkward. All those sports examples given in this thread are actually interesting. Because if you listen to things like US sports, snooker or darts on german television, of cause there is all the english terminology. But you will find them used in proper german sentences without any strange made up words. And I don't see why this should not be possible with gaming content. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
In addition to the difficulties with technical terms it also sounds awful having 20% of a sentence in a different language, but I guess cool kids want to sound cool. This whole "english is the cooler language" trend isnt restricted to Starcraft or eSports, but a general trend in the society. If you want to get a phone contract with the "Deutsche Telekom" ALL of these deals have english names like "Call & Surf Comfort", "Entertain Comfort", "Complete Mobil XL" (Mobil is surprisingly a german word) ... Needless to say I would really love to whip the guys who came up with these names and their superiors through town with a wet towel, because it is idiots like these who are making sure that the german language is endangered. I really love english, but mixing up both is really really bad. On February 12 2011 09:37 FisHKinG wrote: Germany is just lacking in english. All your games, television shows, books etc... are all in german. Over here(Netherlands) everything is released in english so we have less problems to adapt. Maybe you should start by embracing the language  English is the international E sports laguage, it will always stay that way. Nope ... its people who are lacking the will to learn this rather easy language and this results in such embarrassments like Take - no offense, but I think we all agree that your english isnt what it should be - doing awful english interviews in english at the IEM Gamescom. Perfecting your knowledge of english (or another language) is rather easy after a basic start: Just get books on a topic which you understand well and read 2-3 hours each day. You will learn the grammar without requiring these awful technical terms which we all know from school. One of my english teachers at school once said: "You dont need to know what every word in a sentence means, you just need to know the meaning of the sentence. The meaning of the word comes on its own that way." Either you learn the language OR you acknowledge your own ignorance and stop trying to use it. Thats what I would say to using any non-native language. | ||
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Astans
205 Posts
There are two kinds of english terms that you can use in a german commentary - unit names - normal words using english unit names is perfecly fine with me. The german terms sometimes sound awkward and the english ones are easier to identify the problem for me is when german casters use english terms when there are perfectly good german words they can use. This turns the casting language into the kind of denglish that i hate. Example for these words are game, match - spiel choke - engpass income - einkommen fight - kampf | ||
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
What I undetsod from them, German organizers are stubborn and ignorant in some terms because they always want a german stream/cast even when the tournament itself is global. The tournament with Day9 in germany was close to only be casted by germans for example. I hate when tournaments have their native language... I just see no reason for it. Only when it's a small nationwide tournament or mostly 95% native players do I find it acceptable. Even Sweden has some trouble with this but we're getting much better. | ||
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Cri du Chat
Germany606 Posts
It just sounds stupid and hurts my ears ^^. But that's just me. If denglish hurts esports in general is difficult to say, but i agree that it propably sounds very strange and geeky to a lot of people. | ||
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Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
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Tofugrinder
Austria899 Posts
And btw, casters with german version of Starcraft 2 are possible the worst thing I've seen so far. What the hell is a "Brutschleimpool".. it's a frickin spawning pool. | ||
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Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
On February 12 2011 18:07 Markus138 wrote: there shouldn't be german casts in the first place. Everybody can understand casters casting in english even if they are not that good at speaking english. Normally in casts you don't need to be that good at speaking english so that people know what you mean (it's only natural that an american/british caster will have better pronunciation than a german caster). And btw, casters with german version of Starcraft 2 are possible the worst thing I've seen so far. What the hell is a "Brutschleimpool".. it's a frickin spawning pool. i really enjoy it .. i find the mix of english and german funny and make use of it outside of SC. | ||
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kash2k
139 Posts
Why would Russian casters start casting in English if they have more viewers than any usual English tourney? (I think same case with Germany) People have to realize eSport wont become global until regions have a strong culture to it. SC2 and eSport become culture in Korea not because they tried to copy "English", they found the way to create the bond between people and games. And for every country it's different. | ||
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Tibson
Germany85 Posts
All your points are correct. Everytime I watch for example Khaldor cast I frown a little every time he uses an English word that has a perfect German equivalent. Still, it is not bad to call the units by their English names. The over-use of words like map, go, nice, harvesters, army, "spreaden", fight, units, down etc. is just meaningless. German casters speak only about 50% German, but they are imho often times better than these bored english-speaking casters. | ||
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SinCitta
Germany2127 Posts
I don't agree with the posters that say they use English names because they want to sound cool or try to show off. The reason English names are used is because SC2 players are not divided by country borders but by server regions. When you talk about SC2, you talk English. When you read about SC2, you read on TL which is... English. So it's only natural to speak in English when speaking about SC2. About "unprofessionalism": I never understand these comments. It seems some people think eSports is only about professionalism. Especially by American users, the term "production value" emerges over and over. They think that for eSports to happen, the first thing they have to do is throw money at it, have the biggest production value of all and force Tasteless to not make jokes. For what? I want to see great games by great players and I don't care how expensive that jacket is the caster is wearing. How is making eSports look like an auction at Sotheby's making eSports bigger? German eSports organizations (ESL, Freaks4u) have been around for years and know how to cater the needs of their target audience while the oh so professional eSports organizers like the CPL and CGS ceased to exist until the only NA organization left is the MLG. | ||
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10or10
Sweden517 Posts
On February 12 2011 17:30 Krehlmar wrote: I hate when tournaments have their native language... I just see no reason for it. Only when it's a small nationwide tournament or mostly 95% native players do I find it acceptable. Even Sweden has some trouble with this but we're getting much better. I agree that Sweden has the same issues, the broken Swedish that comes from Swedish casters are horrible, but their broken English have similiar issues. At dreamhack, I don't think many would dispute this, day9s commentary was way superior to the Swedish cast. Of course most Swedes understand English pretty well and the Swedish cast doesn't seem necessary to most. But when broadcasting esports on national tv many people not used to a casted e-sport might be scared off by the foreign langauge, but equally they are very likely to be appelled by a broken native langauge. I essence I believe that it is a qustion of growth for the esport; you don't watch the FIFA World Cup in a foreign language, do you (well most of your nation probably don't)? The broken language will be corrected with time and practice and the path there will be filled with painfully embarrising hybrid vocabulary and grammar. When national tv broadcasts will emerge, they will probably contain a huge portion of the native langauge (as it did at dreamhack for swedes when SVT broadcasted online), the language will be broken but will mature with time. Ideally I would like officiall broadcasts of the most competitive games (such as major lan events) broadcasted by commentator super stars (like day9) on national tv (and to the wide international audience), until the native speaking casters have enough experience to do it well (and to get that practice I hope they cast streams (viking cup) and in addition to the main cast on big events: educational vids, interviews, news and coverage). edit: and I feel listening to a Swedish Counter-Strike cast is not as weird as listening to a Swedish SC cast - it's a more mature adaptation of the terms used in the game. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On February 12 2011 11:56 Saechiis wrote: Honestly, I think countries like Germany and France are too stubborn in translating everything to their own language. People should accept that the general vocabulary for entertainment is in English and roll with that. Since practically nothing in the Netherlands gets translated to Dutch we've learned from a much younger age to speak English. To this day I thank Cartoon Network for my knowledge of the English language. Even Korean casters use english terms in their BW commentary: pectory, playgu, reebu, keanu reeves. It's just something that needs to be abridgded by adapting. This isnt something which concerns eSports only or XXX only. The whole german society is slowly switching to Denglish as a language because it supposedly sounds cooler or more international. This is BAD for any society because you slowly lose your own culture and identity. Personally I prefer having the choice, but if we "internationalize" everything this will be bad for our future. If you understand german and listen to Khaldor it is really a mix of german and english and NOT restricted to technical terms. I could agree with having him call a Stalker that way when he is casting, but here are some examples of his mixed language which involve no technical terms (english words / partial words in bold): - Da kommt der go. - Nice. - gefoddert. - runtercallen. - Ich werd' mich dann um das game bemühen. - Da geht die drone down. - Straight hier hoch. Its a lot of mixed english and german and sucks to listen to (well if you are bothered by such idiocy which endangers the language). Especially Khaldors mixed denglish words are bad. The reason why such a mix is bad is quite simple. Language is the key to being understood by other people. If people are "getting used to" their own type of slang they will have problems getting a job where they need to communicat with customers / other people. Do you think that any "yo-dudes" will be found in a high class hotel serving other people? Probably not and thus they are restricted to "yo-dude ghettos". | ||
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trancey_
Germany729 Posts
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