EPTImbalanced - Show - Page 4
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kvn4444
1510 Posts
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Deleted User 108965
1096 Posts
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Koh
United Kingdom111 Posts
I feel the direction of the show would benefit from a clear conclusion being stated before the discussion takes place. For instance at the start of the Topic section, I think it would have a more structured feel if you were to state the concerns you're dealing with: "there is a trend to say that Terran bio is overpowered versus Protoss" and then state your conclusion. "No it isn't overpowered, and here's why". or "Yes, this is something that needs to be looked at" or "Only in some situations" etc. Kinda like Snopes.com it should feel like you're dispelling a myth when you disagree that something is OP. Alternatively, state the conclusion at very end of the show, but make it a more concise, firm conclusion, that can be stated in a couple of sentences. On a cheesy TV show it would be something like a big comedy foam thumb would be held up if you agreed or down if you disagree. Don't do this. Maybe you could hold up a ferret for agree and the cat for disagree. This would make little sense though. | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
I know you don't want people complaining about the hosts, but I've watched both episodes, I'm not simply going to say "just gather like 3 pro gamers of all different races and get them together to record an hour of video instead of practicing" or anything. I really think putting aside the obvious solution of adding someone of a different race, maybe reworking the way you go about the discussions at least might help make the show more interesting. You guys aren't biased or anything like some people constantly claim, it's just that for the most part whenever one of you says something, the other simply agrees with it and reiterates it. There isn't much real back and forth dialogue going on. (I mean, often one of you will say something that the other didn't think of, and the other will simply say "You're right I never thought of that, I agree completely.", and that's it.) Perhaps if one of you tried to play devil's advocate a lot more and you guys could disagree with each other a bit from time to time, you'd think of ideas that you normally wouldn't, and the discussion would be a lot more fruitful. I think having one of you actually be raging and flying off the handle a lot might make the show better, because while one person is making really rash statements, the other would be thinking critically about those statements and trying to rationalize them. The community would be able to relate a lot better with our often over the top and exaggerated discussions, and the show would have a bit more entertainment value as well. But I do like what you're doing with answering the user questions. That really does a good job at covering stuff you guys may not have thought of. And even if you don't take this feedback into consideration, I can still appreciate the show as just you guys sharing your personal experiences with difficult situations in the game. | ||
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zhouzhou
Canada138 Posts
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compscidude
176 Posts
Also reduce their movement speed. Everything that zerg has is even slower than the colosuss, except for the zergling. And zerg is suppose to be the "Mobile" race... so much for that... with blink stalker, zealot charge, warpgate, colosuss speed | ||
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Gao Xi
Hong Kong5178 Posts
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Deleted User 108965
1096 Posts
On February 10 2011 12:52 compscidude wrote: restrict colosuss range so that they cant shoot anything under the range of 4. Also reduce their movement speed. Everything that zerg has is even slower than the colosuss, except for the zergling. And zerg is suppose to be the "Mobile" race... so much for that... with blink stalker, zealot charge, warpgate, colosuss speed what? if im not mistaken every unit is faster except the hydra off creep. | ||
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MisterPuppy
161 Posts
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5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
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[Eternal]Phoenix
United States333 Posts
-marauder concussive shell making the counter to marauders actually not counter marauders, which forces a cost ineffective solution to marauder pressure (stalker zealot in greater numbers, or forcefields which force you to stay 1 base as P.) -marines and mules. Marines are the most cost effective unit until colossus/ht are out, and terran 1 base gets more money than p or z 1 base by virtue of mules. Therefore, it's almost impossible to deal with mass marines until you get those colossus/hts out. You can use forcefield but that's iffy and near impossible on some maps (XC). It's hard to justify any sort of buff to protoss though since they have their own allins that are ridiculous and any buffs for protoss vs zerg right now would be ludicrous. The only options would be to nerf Tbio, at least early on, so that protoss doesn't have to go so far out of the way to survive early pressure and perhaps have a little more flexibility in openings (diversity of the game is a good thing!). Can you do that without taking into account that terran lategame vs protoss is very flimsy and arguably imbalanced the other way? If terran doesn't get the early advantages from rushes or free wins from protoss fumbles early on, can they still maintain an equal game to protoss? Will it swing TvP in the favor of protoss really heavily? I think it might, but that's because T lategame needs some love and P lategame might even need some nerfs. However, you cannot have a matchup where 1 race has to allin to have the best chance of winning because their lategame isn't viable. That doesn't make for a balanced/interesting game. | ||
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Eschaton
United States1245 Posts
On February 10 2011 11:37 ch33psh33p wrote: Why is idra smiling so much?!? New big maps. | ||
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SecondChance
Australia603 Posts
On February 10 2011 11:56 strang wrote: An audio-only version would be awesome. Convert the video to an Mp3 using one of a multitude of sites offering the service. | ||
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Stil
United Kingdom206 Posts
 Ty guis <3 | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
are they searching imbalances, and if yes, how do they want to point them out? what's the actual definition of their point of imbalance? i mean the stuff they are talking about is visible to everyone following the pro scene, where these scenarios happen often. do they want us to sensibilize us that actually not everything looking strong is imbalance? | ||
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Enervate
United States1769 Posts
On February 10 2011 13:17 Elefanto wrote: i still don't get what they want to show here. are they searching imbalances, and if yes, how do they want to point them out? what's the actual definition of their point of imbalance? i mean the stuff they are talking about is visible to everyone following the pro scene, where these scenarios happen often. do they want us to sensibilize us that actually not everything looking strong is imbalance? They give their definition of imbalance in the first episode along with some examples. That's probably why they kept on recommending you watch that one first if you hadn't already. | ||
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Finrod1
Germany3997 Posts
On February 10 2011 12:15 Holdinga wrote: Just watched it. really like this topic because PvT seems impossible for me right now. I would have to agree with about almost everything they said on this topic, but I didn't like how in the end they said it's not imbalanced. Because everything they said leads to it being imbalanced. Terran can expand and pressure, while protoss is forced to fast robotics for an observer. If you are not getting a fast observer, you are blindly going something and hoping it works. Stim is way too strong for the beginning. A more cheap unit (the marauder) kills a stalker 1v1 WITHOUT stim. Protoss is forced into going mass sentry in the beginning in order to have some chance in holding the terran attacks. You also have to use forcefields without making any mistakes because a hole in your forcefields leads to the MM ball just getting near you and killing you. The terran is also guaranteed to do some damage and is never all-in when playing like that. I would say that getting fast high templars is impossible to use in order to stop this, so the only remaining unit is the colosus. However vikings are too good vs colosus, and colosus without range are even demolished by a simple focus fire from the marauders. All of this is pretty hard to form into words, you can only experience it by playing of course. Really described my feelings in this matchup too. If you just compare the protoss t1 and terrant1 units with all their possible upgrades at t1 it's...hell yeah i have halluzination! Because of pvz you can't buff protoss t1 so just freakin nerv terran t1. I always thought in a logical sense that it's kinda stupid that marines/marauders can't die of stim. Why is that? Or just make them unable to stim if they're on 1hp! Maybe it would be better to nerf stim/grenades with more time/cost/whatever and see what happens in the game because of that. Like Idra and Artosis pointed out the gas managment ist so damn hard for protoss compared to the stim a-move. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3097 Posts
You gotta do the show in a room without pets. Or maybe go to Idra's place. HERESY! The pets were the best part. Just thinking about them made me all fuzzy inside. Anyway, I think being forced to imagine cute little kittens and ferrets romping around would do a lot for the kind of people who frequently engage in balance discussions. It obviously worked for Idra. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
If I get really nitpicky I'd say there's been too little discussion on the role of stim and concussive from the Terran side of the TvP MU. As without them, pure zealot would deal with bio pretty cost effectively. The 1 zealot, 1 Stalker poke really shows how gateway units can handle bio effectively when there's no concussive or stim in the picture. Since you touched upon concussive being cheap and fast to research, how would it effect Terran if it took double the time to research? Would they have trouble holding of heavy Zealot pressure? etc. Doesn't take away from the fact though, that it was a well constructed and objective episode with just the right amount of kitten. On February 10 2011 13:21 Finrod1 wrote: First of all, big credits for Artosis and Idra really lerning and thinking within your discussion. Really described my feelings in this matchup too. If you just compare the protoss t1 and terrant1 units with all their possible upgrades at t1 it's...hell yeah i have halluzination! Because of pvz you can't buff protoss t1 so just freakin nerv terran t1. I always thought in a logical sense that it's kinda stupid that marines/marauders can't die of stim. Why is that? Or just make them unable to stim if they're on 1hp! Maybe it would be better to nerf stim/grenades with more time/cost/whatever and see what happens in the game because of that. Like Idra and Artosis pointed out the gas managment ist so damn hard for protoss compared to the stim a-move. Marines and Marauders can't stim when they're at 1 HP, do your research before making claims. It would also be pretty silly to have to sort through a 100 food bio army to individually stim units with more than 10 HP, it's just not a realistic thing to ask. @Holdinga: Marauders beat Stalker without concussive since they're their counter ... Basically, you're both having problems in the PvT MU and are just picking up every one of Artosis and IdrA's hints at imbalance whilst ignoring their claims that there's not a definite imbalance in higher levels of play. | ||
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godemperor
Belgium2043 Posts
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