EPTImbalanced - Show - Page 22
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ccHaZaRd
Canada1024 Posts
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Hane
France210 Posts
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On February 20 2011 16:47 ccHaZaRd wrote: lol but they have said before they are only talking about balance at the pro level, they certainly aren't pro level terrans Neither are almost all of the posters in this thread. If you use that logic, this thread shouldn't even exist, so few people would be able to post in it. | ||
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dustyman
United States66 Posts
I Just believe they need a Terran pro in this to "balance" the conversation. Since their show is currently imbalanced. Besides my disappointment when more Terran bashing in this show... I do enjoy it. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
On February 20 2011 19:44 Hane wrote: feeling that this show shouldn't speak about mm early game but mid game. Protoss have a big weakness vs terran around 14:00 (late expo; they have colossus but no HT) or 9:00 - 11:00 with fast expo. (no t3 yet). Protoss doesn't have a weakness at 14 minutes. Protoss does feel weak when they have one collosis on two base, but you just need to be defensive and have good forcefields. The only build I have trouble with is 1 base banshee, raven, marine marauder. Theres just nothing to kill the banshees in the answer. I may just be a noob but I feel like its pretty easy to execute considering how hard its to deal with. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On February 20 2011 16:44 ixi.genocide wrote: I'm sure artosis is at least a diamond/master T and IdrA used to play terran and there was some speculation back in november that he could main terran. Without a doubt both of these players are better terran than the majority of terrans (non-pros) in the game. Are you sure? The reason I bring up things like this is because they say things like Stim is cheaper and faster than ling speed, both of which are just incorrect, and that Stim and C-Shells are more useful than other early game techs, like Warpgates, Sentries, Ling Speed, etc ... which is obviously not an objective statement. They say things like, to beat the Gateway/Colossus/Phoenix ball just park your vikings over your marines, when obviously your marines die instantaneously to the Colossus. They say things like pulling off the c-shell marauder pressure expand is easier to execute than it is for the Protoss to defend. Obviously they are both raw-dogs at this game. My OP is simple; roll Terran for like a week and see if it is really as easy as you think it is to deal with these things in the manner in which you think a Terran can deal with them. Clearly I'm a non-progamer scrub, but I am a patron of the show, so my input matters in some small way. I'd be willing to bet there are a few Terran fans who can sympathize with or share my suggestion. | ||
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rycho
United States360 Posts
They say things like pulling off the c-shell marauder pressure expand is easier to execute than it is for the Protoss to defend. rofl? do you honestly think this is wrong? | ||
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dustyman
United States66 Posts
have you played Terran before? Remember while were battling you we also have to macro at our own base at the same time which is somewhere else on the map. Which seems harder to me than macroing and microing in the same area. I'm going to go play some protoss vs my friends and have them do this rush to see if it still true after ive seen it on both sides.ill edit it with my opinion after. OK . First lets say I am a master league Terran player and have not played Protoss pretty much EVER. I played a friend who is also a master league Terran player and I had difficulty holding his push but I still held it.... and even was breaking even by mid game and late game. SO wait a player who rarely plays a race (if i ever have which I dont think I have) held a player who is in the master league off and has a lot of experience playing his race. I found Protoss incredibly easier to macro and micro than Terran also... but that is besides the point. | ||
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shaman6ix
Greece212 Posts
On February 22 2011 06:09 dustyman wrote: have you played Terran before? Remember while were battling you we also have to macro at our own base at the same time which is somewhere else on the map. Which seems harder to me than macroing and microing in the same area. I'm going to go play some protoss vs my friends and have them do this rush to see if it still true after ive seen it on both sides.ill edit it with my opinion after. what are you talking about? terran can macro and micro at the same spot on the map because you just select the hotkeyed production facilities (which are already rallied into the battle) and just press d and a for marauders/marines or whatever else youre making. toss has to warp in units where the pylons are (and most of the time they are not IN the battle, even if they are proxy) AND go back to the warpgates to chronoboost whilst terran has the reactor for that purpose. | ||
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dustyman
United States66 Posts
On February 22 2011 06:24 shaman6ix wrote: what are you talking about? terran can macro and micro at the same spot on the map because you just select the hotkeyed production facilities (which are already rallied into the battle) and just press d and a for marauders/marines or whatever else youre making. toss has to warp in units where the pylons are (and most of the time they are not IN the battle, even if they are proxy) AND go back to the warpgates to chronoboost whilst terran has the reactor for that purpose. Im assuming their talking about the marudor push into a FE? which means you do have to return to your base for building buildings. If your just pushing a and d and not making any buildings within your base such as FE supply's factory or something your gonna get owned by the protoss and rightfully so. I'm not saying its hard I'm just saying I believe it requires more work than you think. As a protoss shouldnt you have a pylon at your ramp? where most of the fighting is going to be anyways? Terran units have to run over to the battle while protoss can warp into the battle giving the protoss the essentially defender boost where their reinforcements are almost instant. (also i dont know the bane of chrono boosting but couldnt you just hot key your nexus and hit c)(is this the hotkey?) and click on the warpgate which is gonna be near the fighting anyways?) | ||
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shaman6ix
Greece212 Posts
On February 22 2011 06:34 dustyman wrote: Im assuming their talking about the marudor push into a FE? which means you do have to return to your base for building buildings. If your just pushing a and d and not making any buildings within your base such as FE supply's factory or something your gonna get owned by the protoss and rightfully so. I'm not saying its hard I'm just saying I believe it requires more work than you think. As a protoss shouldnt you have a pylon at your ramp? where most of the fighting is going to be anyways? Terran units have to run over to the battle while protoss can warp into the battle giving the protoss the essentially defender boost where their reinforcements are almost instant. (also i dont know the bane of chrono boosting but couldnt you just hot key your nexus and hit c)(is this the hotkey?) and click on the warpgate which is gonna be near the fighting anyways?) Well i wasnt talking about defending your friggin ramp - thats of course easier for the defender whatever race you have, not only protoss. I was compairing the offensive mechanics of protoss vs the terrans. of course I am not complaining about the way warping technology works, i am just pointing out the differences. btw the reference about building depots and buildings was unnecessary as protoss has to do that as well. | ||
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dustyman
United States66 Posts
On February 22 2011 09:55 shaman6ix wrote: Well i wasnt talking about defending your friggin ramp - thats of course easier for the defender whatever race you have, not only protoss. I was compairing the offensive mechanics of protoss vs the terrans. of course I am not complaining about the way warping technology works, i am just pointing out the differences. btw the reference about building depots and buildings was unnecessary as protoss has to do that as well. Your right I was assuming that players do what I do which is wrong lol... I do a 2 rax FE and keep the protoss contained in their base as long as I can to saturate my 2nd and keep the protoss off a 2nd. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
That sentence you quoted supports the primary point I was making in that post. While you've pulled it out of context, your question is still a valid one. Yes. I think they're incorrect. Have you ever tried to pressure a Protoss with one tech lab rax? Lol. It is light years away from being IMBA. It punishes any early game inefficiencies, sure, but there are plenty of plays like that. It's kinda like Protoss walking the first Stalker over to the Terran's base, or maybe they Chrono'd two out. If there is just Marines, even if it is like 4 or 5, the Stalker(s) can actually kill every Marine and then start wailing on the SCVs. If the Terran has a bunker, or a Marauder w/ c-shell support, that play is defended. If a Terran player is able to apply 1rax pressure to a Protoss while expanding, macroing his base, and doing c-shell micro in Protoss territory then ... uhm, he's a bad ass. It's not imba. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On February 23 2011 03:34 TimeSpiral wrote: If a Terran player is able to apply 1rax pressure to a Protoss while expanding, macroing his base, and doing c-shell micro in Protoss territory then ... uhm, he's a bad ass. It's not imba. Yeah, for every bronze player, that might be a good achievement, but for every decent player its a cake. The problem lies that the protoss has to commit so much to defense, and teching to be able to deflect that, while the terran has an established oc with bunkers to defend any incoming attacks. While protoss sits on 1 base, with a halfway done tech, if he deflects it, he might outright die there if he messes up, cause you cant micro against concussive. It wouldn't be that big of a deal if the second Oc wouldn't be such a HUGE increase of income to the terran thanks to mule. Terran gets an auto economic boost only thanks to their additional expansion, without any workers. Protoss is behind from that point on the whole game. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On February 23 2011 03:43 Elefanto wrote: Yeah, for every bronze player, that might be a good achievement, but for every decent player its a cake. The problem lies that the protoss has to commit so much to defense, and teching to be able to deflect that, while the terran has an established oc with bunkers to defend any incoming attacks. While protoss sits on 1 base, with a halfway done tech, if he deflects it, he might outright die there if he messes up, cause you cant micro against concussive. It wouldn't be that big of a deal if the second Oc wouldn't be such a HUGE increase of income to the terran thanks to mule. Terran gets an auto economic boost only thanks to their additional expansion, without any workers. Protoss is behind from that point on the whole game. Idk what to say to such a silly response. Are you serious? | ||
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Djinx
18 Posts
Again blizzard showed how much they lack quality employees, who can invent something new and interesting instead of slightly modify old starcraft and brood war units, and then use them into the new game. Like the concept of baneling: they say it should serve as a lurker. Mb they dont understand really how the game works but lurkers were a unit than can put pressure on the mineral line or on the wall, forcing the opponent to slow his tech or income. While baneling in late game just die before they reach their target, cause you cant really use them vs protoss or terran without fungal and be cost effective. Because now tanks dont overkill, but all of them shoot at a different unit in the same time, they can basically 2-3 shot your whole zerg army, cause again if you think about it tanks 1 shot zerglings with +1, hard counter to roaches, destroy hydras and make soap from ultras. How can the creation of 1 unit as terran, automatically denies the usage of 4 zerg unit.if u think about it if u play vs mech as zerg, there isnnt any unit zerg can make possible ground unit zerg can make. The only counter for tanks is mutas and again if mutas die you cant replenish them instantly, because they are too gas heavy , while steamed marines and steamed marines drop are a complete joke , because with upgrades and medivac, marines will do their fool dmg till the moment they die are your workers or expand dies mostly. And again even terran can split army cause he can defend expand only with planetary and be safe.its so fuckin ridiculous when u think about the basics of the game and how they put on protoss warpgate and all these special units with special atack and armor, they gave terran free bunker and mule, so even when he is bunker rushing you, with witch if he succeeds u have 99% lost , while if he fails he doesn't really pay any prize.Just ridiculous strategies like bkue flame hellion, where you just need to get them behind min line for 1 max 2 shots to clear everything and there are idiots doing this non stop all game cause sooner or later they know they gona be ahead of you. That's why all these hard counters doesnt do anything else than force players go the same strategie over and over again . Cause you can't defend blue flame without roaches even if you do you will loose so many zerglings and so much larva that it wont even matter.I just hope they take care of sc2, because they should really balance out some things, its normal one race to have more upgrades or different play style or some speaci upgrades but i dont understand why protos has all these units that seem like they all have special power in late game and why terran can upgrade building armor tourest range and zerg is is just unit and speed upgrade for later game ye speed helps but all these units witouth upgrade are really glarbage not even wortth to go, so they just try to make ur garbage units better for the mid game while the make p upgrades hard counter to every heavy armored unit the zerg has. As a whole zerg seems a lot of undersigned, there are many gaps where zerg cant atack because units are useless vs sentries cand expand cause it cannot hold pressure basicly u are just stuck with some army composition waiting for the push where you just need to build enough roaches In the end iI feel zerg race has been damaged the most and it hasnt really got any edge over the other races like protos with warp and terran with all this tech switches tech labs and reactors nowadays protoss seems much more flexible than both terran and zerg. with couple of pilon over the map protoss can have map control and units in each corne this makes protoss a joke i can say because everybody can imagine 25 warpgate on macro map with blink charge ht dt there is -it doesnt matter if zerg has limit zer or hydras or roaches cause basically you can storm and gg and 1 more thing is that the state of the roach as a tank unit has made them the best unit for many situation now zvz is all about the bigger roach count and the faster +1 with speed all these timings which if u get in good timing and atack u just know u gona win,cause as zerg u know it , which again is all about the strategy its just that some units beat others and it doesnt matter how good micro you have you have to make the ones that are cost efficient and everybody goes and does the same strategy that it only looks a little different like zvp and tvp both z and t play vs colosus the same way tier 1 ground army with air units for colosus this is like the most simple play in the world ur air units even shooot only air so u dont have to control them really so much The game at the moment is EZ and doesn't really involve any type of skill there are things that do so much dmg in later stages that people are feeling comfortable enough doing them and not anything else since the beta we haven't seen something different than marine tanks or colosus there are too many hard-counters that doesn't do anything else except ruin the game for the people who wanna be innovative and create their play style most of the game in battle net seem one sided from the start to the end not to say there isn't a singe mirror match that you can get any pleasure playing and that there isn't any way to hold if u dont play exactly like ur opponents which forces people to play pointless, 8 minute all in games , where everything is decided from from who will make a mistake earlier but thats the most disgusting thing that when u know ur opponents is goign one strat if u go high tech he just comes and kills you I hope blizzard change most of their ridiculous creations and put them realy into play like reaper this unit is tottaly useless zerglings in late game they are just so stupid unit in the end game and like ultras and broodlords is only used when he is already dead or u are just finishing him if you are beinh az zerg but make 5 ultras omg marines kill so fast ultras u even cant see the hp bar going down its like they blow instantly i cant imagine how can unit with 5 amor i dont know how much hp but basically owned by every single terran unit from tier 1 and tier 2 while zerg tier one and tier 2 can even make it to the batle ground cause they can get 1 or 2 shot Thats my insights guys... had many things to say, dont know if somebody will read though gl hf and enjoy the game :D | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10298 Posts
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BrodiaQ
United States892 Posts
Eagerly waiting for episode 3. These have definitely started up the discussion Idra and Artosis wanted. | ||
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Djinx
18 Posts
On February 23 2011 03:34 TimeSpiral wrote: That sentence you quoted supports the primary point I was making in that post. While you've pulled it out of context, your question is still a valid one. Yes. I think they're incorrect. Have you ever tried to pressure a Protoss with one tech lab rax? Lol. It is light years away from being IMBA. It punishes any early game inefficiencies, sure, but there are plenty of plays like that. It's kinda like Protoss walking the first Stalker over to the Terran's base, or maybe they Chrono'd two out. If there is just Marines, even if it is like 4 or 5, the Stalker(s) can actually kill every Marine and then start wailing on the SCVs. If the Terran has a bunker, or a Marauder w/ c-shell support, that play is defended. If a Terran player is able to apply 1rax pressure to a Protoss while expanding, macroing his base, and doing c-shell micro in Protoss territory then ... uhm, he's a bad ass. It's not imba. Man sry but you probably don't understand how protoss workes exactly. You see there is one thing called forcefield which stopes all early pressure and there is another thing called warpgate i just make warpgate and go and kill him cause he can make units faster also guardian shield cut the dmg of marines in half and for maroders also so main protoss the easiest race no apm required i just need good forcefields here and there to keep u alive and u can always protect urself with forcefield if u dont wanna engage its so fuckin easy that i dont understand how every protoss is not feeling ashamed that he is playing the one button win into mega cheese gogo win transition race Its just ridiculous cause u never know what to expect with protos he can go blink stalker and fuck you charge zeloaats and fuck you 3 gate robo stargate warprism colosu haras so many things that are crazy for haras and are direct transition from ur normal units like blink stalkers kill expo blink back gg no expo its even not EZ its retarded how they can make it so ez for one race and in the same time u cant even go tier 3 with zerg cause units doesnt really do more dmg and die faster because of armor hard counter mega stupid wc3 stategie User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Robje
Netherlands1044 Posts
On February 23 2011 04:55 Djinx wrote: Protoss is just a freak of nature, its the strongest, most flexible and hardest, nearly impossible to beat race. We can all agree that ZvP has lately transformed into direct "gg", as from the start of the game you can get cannon rushed with 3 pylons on the ramp leaving you on 1 base long enough so there isn't really any point to continue the game. Because zerg units are a lot less cost efficient than protosses, zerg can never really get ahead and win a game, once he has less income or bases than his opponent .In this manner we can just say that all the zerg units are easy detectable, easy to kill and counter with protoss, which leads us to such game scenarios like the one where protoss just goes mass immortals and voidrayes vs mass roaches and hydras, and because both protoss units are hard counter to the roaches and kill them instantly, there isn't anything left to take the dmg and the hydras die despite their high dps. huge wall of text You made an account just for this wall? :D Anyway, anyone know if there will be more episodes with IdrA leaving? | ||
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