EPTIMBALANCED! - Introduction - Page 74
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
If you have criticism, you need to address the content, not the hosts. Idra and Artosis are 2 (1.5) Zerg players, but you can't point that out and then blanket them as biased. Respond to the content. You can't tell them to "get 2 Terran and Protoss players". That's fucking obtuse advice. "Yo just get 4 more high level players to record with you." Yes, I think everyone sees the value in getting it, but it's not practical. Respond to the content and use evidence / logic to back up your claims. | ||
|
Tedde93
Sweden169 Posts
| ||
|
Bosu
United States3247 Posts
On August 17 2011 17:56 Tedde93 wrote: Isn't artosis Protoss? He might be playing toss now, but I think he is still a zerg at heart. | ||
|
Silverfoxx
United States184 Posts
It's pretty obvious to see when someone's trying a mass infestor build, or even going heavier on infestors than normal, and there is one simple thing about the infestor unit that the other spellcaster units dont have... Infestors are COUNTERED BY the other spellcasters. 2 storms dropped on top of infestors or a feedback on them immediately either kills them or renders them completely useless. An emp on them = useless infestor, as can sniping them in the middle of combat (though lets be honest, an emp would be preferred 99/100 times.) Yeah, it's different from other things, but it's the one thing that you can say without a doubt. get high templars and feedback all your opponents infestors and you just won. Get a few good emp's and you could walk in with a marine marauder ball and still destroy your opponent. Miss them and you lose, just like if a Zerg screws up positioning or his fungals (which never seems to happen), like a toss missing storms or FF's, or a terran missing his EMP's or getting caught with his pants down (tanks unsieging.) It's late, i'm tired, and my reasoning probably didnt make much sense somewhere in there, so, the TL;DR version of it. Infestors are hard-countered by the other spellcasters (Ghosts and Templars) but because of their versatility are either a counter to or at the very least NEUTRAL to basically any other army composition in the game, which makes mass infestor viable. Is this good game design? Not particularly. Do I think infestor are overpowered as they are now? No. Do I think they should change them to fill particular roles instead of being the overall ohmygodthankgodwehaveonegoodunit (I kid, but lots of people think of it that way) for the zerg race? hell yes I do. Game's not interesting with infestors being the only thing sticking around, and now that they're starting to hit korea, who knows what we'll see out of them | ||
|
Phyrigian
New Zealand1332 Posts
| ||
|
Beamo
France1279 Posts
What he meant is Infestors basically have the same kind of spells Dark Archons used to have in broodwar... Fungle -> Maelstorm Neural parasite -> Mind Control | ||
|
WigglingSquid
5194 Posts
I am under the impression that EMPs are single-handedly winning many battles with little to no required control; if I am not mistaken, EMP has a slight range advantage over Storm (plus its effect is instantaneous), and there does not seem to be a way for Protoss to effectively counter a mere handful of Ghosts. | ||
|
Rkie
United States1278 Posts
On August 17 2011 18:54 WigglingSquid wrote: Has anyone been watching GSL, PvT in particular, recently? I am under the impression that EMPs are single-handedly winning many battles with little to no required control; if I am not mistaken, EMP has a slight range advantage over Storm (plus its effect is instantaneous), and there does not seem to be a way for Protoss to effectively counter a mere handful of Ghosts. I know it takes more time and multitasking, but I always try to split High Templars to increase number of emps needed and especially adding colossus later on helps a lot. Yes, EMP has 10 range, and storm has 9. | ||
|
Martacus
25 Posts
On August 17 2011 18:54 WigglingSquid wrote: Has anyone been watching GSL, PvT in particular, recently? I am under the impression that EMPs are single-handedly winning many battles with little to no required control; if I am not mistaken, EMP has a slight range advantage over Storm (plus its effect is instantaneous), and there does not seem to be a way for Protoss to effectively counter a mere handful of Ghosts. Not only does it outrange storm it outranges feedback too which is range 9 vs range 10. Ive been saying EMP is the biggest imbalance in sc2 since the start, mainly vs toss, and i play random so dont throw the bias card at me, I think its too good when I play with it and too good when I play against it. Its instant, massive range, affects every protoss unit and is AoE so doesnt even require precise clicking, literally just get 3-4 ghosts and spam emp across the army, cream every unit he has or if he's hidden his templar and you waste your emps, back up to tanks or stim and run, no real risk...now that its hit korea (how the hell did it take them this long to realise how amazing it is vs toss??? I thought they were meant to be clever in Asia  ) I hope it'll get brought to attention or, even better, some genius toss will prove me wrong and show me a great way to counter it!2 cents on infestors...I think theyre fine. In fact theyre my favourite unit I think, because theyre just more fun than the other spellcasters. However I think they are a bit less forgiving than other spellcasters beacuse of the rooting effect of fungal: If you run into an army including HTs when you're looking elsewhere and they throw a storm, good reactions will get you out with minimal damage, same (to a lesser extent) with emp, as you can at least run away and if you're lucky throw some FFs down from the sentrys that didnt get hit, or stim and run. Fungal means you're fucked. Youre rooted, and going to get chain fungalled and attacked until you die, no question...but I dont want that to change, I fricking love them haha. | ||
|
Spitfire
South Africa442 Posts
On August 17 2011 18:01 Bosu wrote: He might be playing toss now, but I think he is still a zerg at heart. He's a StarCraft: Brood War Terran at heart | ||
|
beute
Germany197 Posts
| ||
|
GhostOwl
766 Posts
On August 17 2011 08:21 Blazinghand wrote: Every caster was stronger in BW, due to the mechanics of the game being different (ie no smartcast, small control groups, difficulty teching, etc). Defiler was strong, but difficult to use properly and tech to. The same went for science vessels, arbiters and templar, etc. all of which are stronger than their sc2 counterparts due to the way the mechanics changed. Casters might have had more impact in BW, but really, HT was only other really good caster, and Storms weren't "free" like DS and Plague. Defilers were so game-changing that there were TvZ timings to kill Z before defilers, and the icons for the initiation of "late-game" for Zerg. | ||
|
meadbert
United States681 Posts
Obviously this data size is way to small and limited to prove anything regarding which races may be overpowered. I only felt compelled to point out the irony that Artosis complained about Protoss being overpowered, yet somehow playing against Protoss turned out to be his best matchup. | ||
|
ronpaul012
United States769 Posts
On August 17 2011 17:56 Tedde93 wrote: Isn't artosis Protoss? He switched right before the NASL season 1 started. When these originally were going on he was a zerg. | ||
|
isleyofthenorth
Austria894 Posts
On August 18 2011 00:29 ronpaul012 wrote: He switched right before the NASL season 1 started. When these originally were going on he was a zerg. he said the fewer marauders he sees the more he wants to play terran again | ||
|
[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On August 17 2011 17:24 karpo wrote: Only if everyone filters just the things out they want to hear. If someone would quote single lines of the dialogue, one could get to horribly wrong conclusions.Just listening to Artosis and Idra talking about TvZ now on SotG i really don't want this show again. It will just spawn even more balance whine both here and on other forums. But Idra and Artosis actually know what they are talking about. They point out some balance issues without "proving" that an entire match-up is imbalanced. Instead they underline how hard proper unit design is. | ||
|
DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
| ||
|
NASAmoose
United States231 Posts
On August 18 2011 04:27 DooMDash wrote: Artosis mentioned "ghost mech" on state of the game, whats that about ? Style being popularized by tons of players to deal with Zerg in the late game. Basically, you go mech. Then, right before (ideally) when a shit ton of Broodlords/Infestors come out, you mass ghosts to EMP, snipe, and win. | ||
|
skrotcyk
Sweden432 Posts
On August 18 2011 00:17 meadbert wrote: Artosis's own results at NASL are ironic. He went 0-8 vs Zerg and 0-6 vs Terran, but pulled off a solid 4-3 record vs Protoss. Obviously this data size is way to small and limited to prove anything regarding which races may be overpowered. I only felt compelled to point out the irony that Artosis complained about Protoss being overpowered, yet somehow playing against Protoss turned out to be his best matchup. Wow are you trolling..? Or just that stupid? | ||
|
DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
On August 18 2011 04:30 NASAmoose wrote: Style being popularized by tons of players to deal with Zerg in the late game. Basically, you go mech. Then, right before (ideally) when a shit ton of Broodlords/Infestors come out, you mass ghosts to EMP, snipe, and win. As a ghost mech user for awhile now, I find this kind of silly. I haven't even seen this in Korea yet either, but I haven't watched GSL in the last few days. Out of all topics of balance that is their 2nd best topic probably? Not even a mention of 1-1-1 ( which I think is fine, but still ). Also I hate that SOTG and this show are from only T and Z's point of views. | ||
|
Leach
United States536 Posts
On August 18 2011 04:38 skrotcyk wrote: Wow are you trolling..? Or just that stupid? pls don't let this be trolling, would be so funny :D | ||
| ||
