|
If you have criticism, you need to address the content, not the hosts. Idra and Artosis are 2 (1.5) Zerg players, but you can't point that out and then blanket them as biased. Respond to the content.
You can't tell them to "get 2 Terran and Protoss players". That's fucking obtuse advice. "Yo just get 4 more high level players to record with you." Yes, I think everyone sees the value in getting it, but it's not practical.
Respond to the content and use evidence / logic to back up your claims. |
is this coming back with idra's return to korea?
|
On August 17 2011 04:20 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 04:17 Veriol wrote:On August 17 2011 04:07 corpuscle wrote:On August 17 2011 03:44 Veriol wrote:On August 17 2011 02:51 neoghaleon55 wrote:On August 17 2011 02:06 Fleebenworth wrote:
Why would there be another episode? It's pretty obvious the only point of the show was to allow two myopic players to complain about a unit that it turns out is fine. Collosi Voidray were really imbalanced against zerg during the time of these videos...blizzard had to fix it with the infestor buff, I'm sure blizz knew what they were doing here. infestor buff?how exactly did get infestor buffed blizz added like 10 damage to armored unit on fungal growth. I just wonder how exactly this turned infestor from unit that nobody even think about. into OMGWTF takes no skill unit and nowadays into infestor-> win-> zerg no skill race im facing this every day at ladder/forums O.O Explain pls The damage didn't change, but the duration did. Same amount of damage in half the time -> double the DPS. Fungal went from a root that did moderate damage to a DPS spell that happens to root. u said it the damage didnt change so it still deals moderate damage the only thing that now matter is that medivacs cant overheal the dps and this alone just cant make it imbalanced unit IMO Okay how about we double storm dps. Don't even need bonus to armored or sticking units in place. I'm not ready to say that Infestors are overpowered or imbalanced. It is far too well rounded as a spell caster. It's got something for big, important units (neural), for small groups of units (fungal), and for air + harass (infested terran). It is a joke how Destiny can win so many games with Infestors essentially. Again, I'm not saying it's imbalanced but something needs to change. It's just really bad game design by Blizzard for a race to be okay massing 1 unit and not make the others.
You seem to seriously overrate the effectiveness of neural parasite against big units, and of the infestor in general against harrass (especially after the duration change).
Yes it's a good unit that has different uses... which is exactly the way it should be.
Besides if you actually watch games the state of zerg is far from being all about the infestor right now except in ZvZ (unlike what you seem to imply), so this seems to be poorly disguised QQ and nothing more.
|
I believe infestors are a decent unit, but sometimes I feel frustrated when playing against them 
|
On August 17 2011 05:03 unit wrote:
is this coming back with idra's return to korea?
say whaaaaaaaat, is he returning to korea??
|
if infestors only slowed and didn't root and allowed spells to continue to be used... (Blink) then it would be fine. EZ fix.
|
On August 17 2011 05:16 Abusion wrote:
if infestors only slowed and didn't root and allowed spells to continue to be used... (Blink) then it would be fine. EZ fix.
well no, because then zerg can't deal with mass blink stalkers at all....
|
On August 17 2011 05:20 Ashworth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 05:16 Abusion wrote:
if infestors only slowed and didn't root and allowed spells to continue to be used... (Blink) then it would be fine. EZ fix. well no, because then zerg can't deal with mass blink stalkers at all....
I think fungal should be researchable just like storm and it should be a projectile, but still be able to root.
|
On August 17 2011 04:20 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 04:17 Veriol wrote:On August 17 2011 04:07 corpuscle wrote:On August 17 2011 03:44 Veriol wrote:On August 17 2011 02:51 neoghaleon55 wrote:On August 17 2011 02:06 Fleebenworth wrote:
Why would there be another episode? It's pretty obvious the only point of the show was to allow two myopic players to complain about a unit that it turns out is fine. Collosi Voidray were really imbalanced against zerg during the time of these videos...blizzard had to fix it with the infestor buff, I'm sure blizz knew what they were doing here. infestor buff?how exactly did get infestor buffed blizz added like 10 damage to armored unit on fungal growth. I just wonder how exactly this turned infestor from unit that nobody even think about. into OMGWTF takes no skill unit and nowadays into infestor-> win-> zerg no skill race im facing this every day at ladder/forums O.O Explain pls The damage didn't change, but the duration did. Same amount of damage in half the time -> double the DPS. Fungal went from a root that did moderate damage to a DPS spell that happens to root. u said it the damage didnt change so it still deals moderate damage the only thing that now matter is that medivacs cant overheal the dps and this alone just cant make it imbalanced unit IMO Okay how about we double storm dps. Don't even need bonus to armored or sticking units in place. I'm not ready to say that Infestors are overpowered or imbalanced. It is far too well rounded as a spell caster. It's got something for big, important units (neural), for small groups of units (fungal), and for air + harass (infested terran). It is a joke how Destiny can win so many games with Infestors essentially. Again, I'm not saying it's imbalanced but something needs to change. It's just really bad game design by Blizzard for a race to be okay massing 1 unit and not make the others.
this has been my beef with infestors for a while now. they are simply (in my eyes) TOO versatile.
i dont think any of it's spells are particularly OP individually, but i think altogether in one unit makes the spells just too much to handle
|
On August 17 2011 05:33 FrankWalls wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 04:20 Condor Hero wrote:On August 17 2011 04:17 Veriol wrote:On August 17 2011 04:07 corpuscle wrote:On August 17 2011 03:44 Veriol wrote:On August 17 2011 02:51 neoghaleon55 wrote:On August 17 2011 02:06 Fleebenworth wrote:
Why would there be another episode? It's pretty obvious the only point of the show was to allow two myopic players to complain about a unit that it turns out is fine. Collosi Voidray were really imbalanced against zerg during the time of these videos...blizzard had to fix it with the infestor buff, I'm sure blizz knew what they were doing here. infestor buff?how exactly did get infestor buffed blizz added like 10 damage to armored unit on fungal growth. I just wonder how exactly this turned infestor from unit that nobody even think about. into OMGWTF takes no skill unit and nowadays into infestor-> win-> zerg no skill race im facing this every day at ladder/forums O.O Explain pls The damage didn't change, but the duration did. Same amount of damage in half the time -> double the DPS. Fungal went from a root that did moderate damage to a DPS spell that happens to root. u said it the damage didnt change so it still deals moderate damage the only thing that now matter is that medivacs cant overheal the dps and this alone just cant make it imbalanced unit IMO Okay how about we double storm dps. Don't even need bonus to armored or sticking units in place. I'm not ready to say that Infestors are overpowered or imbalanced. It is far too well rounded as a spell caster. It's got something for big, important units (neural), for small groups of units (fungal), and for air + harass (infested terran). It is a joke how Destiny can win so many games with Infestors essentially. Again, I'm not saying it's imbalanced but something needs to change. It's just really bad game design by Blizzard for a race to be okay massing 1 unit and not make the others. this has been my beef with infestors for a while now. they are simply (in my eyes) TOO versatile. i dont think any of it's spells are particularly OP individually, but i think altogether in one unit makes the spells just too much to handle
Too versatile? All of the race's casters have versatility, but it comes in different ways. The HT has both feedback and storm, and can merge when out of energy into a powerful anti-bio tank. The ghost can nuke, EMP, snipe. Only the infestor is useless when out of energy, that is has no options. While you may be able to argue that it has more uses when charged, the other units at least have *a* use when out of energy.
|
i agree with them on this topic its very hard 2 find a balance between corrupters and ground units i just wish there was some type of like formula or something to say 1 colloses = 3 corrupters or something. but my opinion from a zerg pov is that they r way to cost efficient and way to strong on to many maps
|
On August 17 2011 06:19 Eschaton wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 05:33 FrankWalls wrote:On August 17 2011 04:20 Condor Hero wrote:On August 17 2011 04:17 Veriol wrote:On August 17 2011 04:07 corpuscle wrote:On August 17 2011 03:44 Veriol wrote:On August 17 2011 02:51 neoghaleon55 wrote:On August 17 2011 02:06 Fleebenworth wrote:
Why would there be another episode? It's pretty obvious the only point of the show was to allow two myopic players to complain about a unit that it turns out is fine. Collosi Voidray were really imbalanced against zerg during the time of these videos...blizzard had to fix it with the infestor buff, I'm sure blizz knew what they were doing here. infestor buff?how exactly did get infestor buffed blizz added like 10 damage to armored unit on fungal growth. I just wonder how exactly this turned infestor from unit that nobody even think about. into OMGWTF takes no skill unit and nowadays into infestor-> win-> zerg no skill race im facing this every day at ladder/forums O.O Explain pls The damage didn't change, but the duration did. Same amount of damage in half the time -> double the DPS. Fungal went from a root that did moderate damage to a DPS spell that happens to root. u said it the damage didnt change so it still deals moderate damage the only thing that now matter is that medivacs cant overheal the dps and this alone just cant make it imbalanced unit IMO Okay how about we double storm dps. Don't even need bonus to armored or sticking units in place. I'm not ready to say that Infestors are overpowered or imbalanced. It is far too well rounded as a spell caster. It's got something for big, important units (neural), for small groups of units (fungal), and for air + harass (infested terran). It is a joke how Destiny can win so many games with Infestors essentially. Again, I'm not saying it's imbalanced but something needs to change. It's just really bad game design by Blizzard for a race to be okay massing 1 unit and not make the others. this has been my beef with infestors for a while now. they are simply (in my eyes) TOO versatile. i dont think any of it's spells are particularly OP individually, but i think altogether in one unit makes the spells just too much to handle Too versatile? All of the race's casters have versatility, but it comes in different ways. The HT has both feedback and storm, and can merge when out of energy into a powerful anti-bio tank. The ghost can nuke, EMP, snipe. Only the infestor is useless when out of energy, that is has no options. While you may be able to argue that it has more uses when charged, the other units at least have *a* use when out of energy.
I will trade you the "merging" ability for having storm already researched and my KA upgrade back any day.
Edit: Of course feedback will be researchable now in its place
|
On August 17 2011 06:19 Eschaton wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 05:33 FrankWalls wrote:On August 17 2011 04:20 Condor Hero wrote:On August 17 2011 04:17 Veriol wrote:On August 17 2011 04:07 corpuscle wrote:On August 17 2011 03:44 Veriol wrote:On August 17 2011 02:51 neoghaleon55 wrote:On August 17 2011 02:06 Fleebenworth wrote:
Why would there be another episode? It's pretty obvious the only point of the show was to allow two myopic players to complain about a unit that it turns out is fine. Collosi Voidray were really imbalanced against zerg during the time of these videos...blizzard had to fix it with the infestor buff, I'm sure blizz knew what they were doing here. infestor buff?how exactly did get infestor buffed blizz added like 10 damage to armored unit on fungal growth. I just wonder how exactly this turned infestor from unit that nobody even think about. into OMGWTF takes no skill unit and nowadays into infestor-> win-> zerg no skill race im facing this every day at ladder/forums O.O Explain pls The damage didn't change, but the duration did. Same amount of damage in half the time -> double the DPS. Fungal went from a root that did moderate damage to a DPS spell that happens to root. u said it the damage didnt change so it still deals moderate damage the only thing that now matter is that medivacs cant overheal the dps and this alone just cant make it imbalanced unit IMO Okay how about we double storm dps. Don't even need bonus to armored or sticking units in place. I'm not ready to say that Infestors are overpowered or imbalanced. It is far too well rounded as a spell caster. It's got something for big, important units (neural), for small groups of units (fungal), and for air + harass (infested terran). It is a joke how Destiny can win so many games with Infestors essentially. Again, I'm not saying it's imbalanced but something needs to change. It's just really bad game design by Blizzard for a race to be okay massing 1 unit and not make the others. this has been my beef with infestors for a while now. they are simply (in my eyes) TOO versatile. i dont think any of it's spells are particularly OP individually, but i think altogether in one unit makes the spells just too much to handle Too versatile? All of the race's casters have versatility, but it comes in different ways. The HT has both feedback and storm, and can merge when out of energy into a powerful anti-bio tank. The ghost can nuke, EMP, snipe. Only the infestor is useless when out of energy, that is has no options. While you may be able to argue that it has more uses when charged, the other units at least have *a* use when out of energy.
He has a point. Fungal can be considered a "hard-counter" to clumped up light units (Marines/Zerglings/Zealots) as well as a nice snare against air and Blink. Neural can be considered a "hard-counter" against large units, as long as you have good positioning and an army to support your Infestors. IT is harder to specialize, but is a great harassment tool and a decent anti-air in a pinch.
Psi storm is similar to Fungal in that it demolishes clumped, light units, but without the snare. Feedback is great, but a utility that is only useful against enemy casters.
EMP is a great utility spell against casters or Protoss in general, but Snipe/Nuke are situational at best.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can blindly make Infestors against pretty much any unit composition and be able to use them effectively. The same isn't true for HT or Ghosts.
This doesn't necessarily make the Infestor "imbalanced" but do we really want the Zerg race designed around a must-use caster unit, and by choosing a different use for our gas we end up gimping ourselves?
|
On August 17 2011 06:25 minisockey wrote:
i agree with them on this topic its very hard 2 find a balance between corrupters and ground units i just wish there was some type of like formula or something to say 1 colloses = 3 corrupters or something. but my opinion from a zerg pov is that they r way to cost efficient and way to strong on to many maps
Infestors are better for countering colossi than corruptors. You should try using them.
|
I think that the problem with infestors is how easily you can mass them.
How about a slight supply increase?
|
On August 17 2011 06:19 Eschaton wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 05:33 FrankWalls wrote:On August 17 2011 04:20 Condor Hero wrote:On August 17 2011 04:17 Veriol wrote:On August 17 2011 04:07 corpuscle wrote:On August 17 2011 03:44 Veriol wrote:On August 17 2011 02:51 neoghaleon55 wrote:On August 17 2011 02:06 Fleebenworth wrote:
Why would there be another episode? It's pretty obvious the only point of the show was to allow two myopic players to complain about a unit that it turns out is fine. Collosi Voidray were really imbalanced against zerg during the time of these videos...blizzard had to fix it with the infestor buff, I'm sure blizz knew what they were doing here. infestor buff?how exactly did get infestor buffed blizz added like 10 damage to armored unit on fungal growth. I just wonder how exactly this turned infestor from unit that nobody even think about. into OMGWTF takes no skill unit and nowadays into infestor-> win-> zerg no skill race im facing this every day at ladder/forums O.O Explain pls The damage didn't change, but the duration did. Same amount of damage in half the time -> double the DPS. Fungal went from a root that did moderate damage to a DPS spell that happens to root. u said it the damage didnt change so it still deals moderate damage the only thing that now matter is that medivacs cant overheal the dps and this alone just cant make it imbalanced unit IMO Okay how about we double storm dps. Don't even need bonus to armored or sticking units in place. I'm not ready to say that Infestors are overpowered or imbalanced. It is far too well rounded as a spell caster. It's got something for big, important units (neural), for small groups of units (fungal), and for air + harass (infested terran). It is a joke how Destiny can win so many games with Infestors essentially. Again, I'm not saying it's imbalanced but something needs to change. It's just really bad game design by Blizzard for a race to be okay massing 1 unit and not make the others. this has been my beef with infestors for a while now. they are simply (in my eyes) TOO versatile. i dont think any of it's spells are particularly OP individually, but i think altogether in one unit makes the spells just too much to handle Too versatile? All of the race's casters have versatility, but it comes in different ways. The HT has both feedback and storm, and can merge when out of energy into a powerful anti-bio tank. The ghost can nuke, EMP, snipe. Only the infestor is useless when out of energy, that is has no options. While you may be able to argue that it has more uses when charged, the other units at least have *a* use when out of energy.
yes it cant attack when its out of energy, but besides that, there isnt really a role that it cant fill. it can be a sneak attack unit with burrow. it is good against lower health meaty ground army units with fungal growth. it works well against mobile units by using fungal growth to completely immobilize them. it can detect cloaked units. it has utility against the large costly units with neural. it's combination of fungal + infested terran is potent against air units. the list goes on really. literally the only roles it doesnt fill is being able to attack on its own, or tanking fire. it just really seems to be able to do too many things with just one tech choice
|
9071 Posts
|
On August 17 2011 06:43 disciple wrote:![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/disciple/imba3.jpg)
Oh it's been mooooooonths since we have seen that :D
|
|
|
On August 17 2011 06:43 disciple wrote:
Oh man I almost died laughing here at work. Good thing everyone else is on lunch. Please bring back the show and this time, bring in the hukmaniac.
|
Being able to burrow and move also makes them that much more lame.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
